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Old 12-19-2012, 08:23 AM #211
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Saw this and wanted to share it: http://youtu.be/yV1mCVmiixo
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:27 AM #212
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Thats some pretty good stuff. I asked my youth teens this past Sunday about how could they see them growing in their faith. One of the boys that has been struggling lately with a few things, mentioned he just now realized he really can to save himself. Not so much a salvation save but rather he realized he couldn't save himself from his own desires and his own issues. It is really amazing what happens when we put Pro. 3:5-6. I know for myself when I look back I feel that I was so much like a child years ago and I hope when ever I look back in my life I can see where I have acknowledged God in all my understandings of the what whats of the world.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:53 PM #213
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Anybody leaving home for the holidays??
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:10 AM #214
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

- pretty interesting case study, especially the part on controversy.

So it looks like NZ 2013 events will be adopting either PSP or Millenium ramping. Probably Millenium since the consensus is that Millenium rules are better than PSP rules in general. Suits me
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:03 PM #215
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well we got hit by a significant snow storm in the Great Lakes region. A lot of people with out power (me included). I got stuck in a snow bank on a hill on my way home, normally takes me 25 minutes to get home, took over 2.5 hours. Thanking God for safety and a grandpa with a plow truck. Staying at my grandparents for now to keep warm. About 15,000 people are with out power in the Northern lower peninsula. Keep us in your prayers.


On a side note... I'm using my grandma's iMac.... I'm confused.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:16 PM #216
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@vijil - man it'll be awesome if NZ can host a PALS event....I'd go to that for sure just so I can visit NZ as well

@Dom - stay warm bro
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:06 PM #217
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If it weren't for the laws there I'd say Aus would be more likely to host than us, but honestly nobody here really knows how to put on a world class event. We'd need the PALS guys to do all the organising.

Could work though... hmm. Maybe one day

@dom - crazy times. Prayed.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:56 PM #218
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http://www.gtlakes.com/storm-central/

I'm in the Emmet County zip 49706, almost to the tip of the mitten.
Keeping warm at the in laws. Still no power. Had pizza for lunch & dinner. And was able to reset my Droid X. Along with playing a lil Halo4. Going to watch White Christmas, as we do every year as a family.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:00 AM #219
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Howdy Krew

Getting ready to go outside and push some of that snow Dom mentioned around. We never lost power, but hopefully yours is back on soon Dom.

Oh and the world is still going, it didn't end yesterday.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:38 AM #220
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Still no power. I'm thankful that my in laws live like 3 miles away and have power, heat and a place to lodge all 5 of us.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:40 PM #221
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Update!!! We have power! Still staying the night at the in laws, and letting the house warm up. I could see my breath today in the house.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:44 PM #222
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Meanwhile's we're having the hottest summer in years. Global warming or whatever.

Last edited by vijil : 12-22-2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:24 AM #223
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Yesterday some JWs came over wanting to talk to me regarding a discussion I last had with them. With their "Bibles" in hand and scripture reference guide they looked ready to prove their point(s) with me including how the doctrine of the Trinity was false. But before they can get their points across I threw them a curve ball. I asked them what makes them feel they have the proper interpretation of Scripture over all the other Christian denominations in the world. Of course they said they have the usual "scholarly research etc etc etc." But I said every Christian Church claims the same thing. I then said the problem I see with having discussions like these is we all believe we have the truth and therefore we do not want to even look at the possibility of leaving our current Church community for the truth regardless of how it is presented to us.

I then preceded to guide them down a discussion on how Christians need to find common ground to face what is going in this world. I don't consider JWs Christians because of their lack of belief in the Trinity even though they are many times decent people but I did not tell them that of course. I talked about social injustices and working amongst the poor and challenging abortion. I could tell that the JWs although listening to what I said really could only respond by "we do some of those things but our main purpose is to "evangelize." Clearly they were missing my point. I told them the most effective way of evangelizing was by living the Gospel and being Christ to others. After all you can present scriptures to someone who is hungry, naked, homeless, considering abortion, or you can really look at what that person needs and try to help them and develop a relationship with them and then share with them the joy that we have in Christ. JWs seem to be pre-occupied with sharing their version of the Scripture and increasing their numbers. It appeared they didn't really get involved in much social outreach unless it meant helping their own members or getting more members into their organization.

Before they left I shared with them about the life of Francis of Assisi a rich noble who gave up everything to serve the poor. He would later go on to found one of the largest religious orders in the world the... Franciscans. I told them Francis had a saying: "Always preach the Gospel and IF NECESSARY....use words."

With that we ended our discussion. I'm sure they weren't expecting the conversation to go in that direction. I'm guessing a couple weeks from now they'll be back with something new. I can only pray and hope that I can somehow get them to look at other Christian denominations and see outside of their theology which is filled with so many errors and contradictions.
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Last edited by RLN : 12-23-2012 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:50 AM #224
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Overall I like your approach, but I'm not a fan of assisi's quote. The Bible is pretty clear about actively preaching the gospel. Lots of people live a good moral life, it's hard to stand out unless you're exceptional.

Still. JWs are an interesting bunch.
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:35 AM #225
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vijil - I think you miss the point. Francis had no problem preaching the Gospel. In fact he wanted every living creature to hear the Gospel and even traveled to Egypt to preach to the Sultan although he was unsuccessful in that particular trip. He was willing to die for the Gospel and must've made an impression on the Sultan for he returned to the Crusaders encampment unharmed by the Saracens. Another way to look at Francis' quote is if you want to be an effective evangelizer people must see the gospel in you. Francis had no problem preaching the Gospel when the situation warranted it.

Remember what Scripture says:

"Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’
Matthew 34:45
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:54 AM #226
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Quote:
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Meanwhile's we're having the hottest summer in years. Global warming or whatever.
Bring on the global warming... I live well above sea level. And I could go for some lake front property.
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:26 PM #227
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Christians are persecuted in 131 out of 193 countries. Here is the article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000... od=hp_opinion

Notice the writers are actually Rabbis.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:26 PM #228
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Why not link to the Pew Report? The US isn't one of those countries and do you consider LDS and JW as Christians? The report does...
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:11 PM #229
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Why not link to the Pew Report? The US isn't one of those countries and do you consider LDS and JW as Christians? The report does...
Yea it's comforting to know the US isn't one of those countries. Although I'd say that over the past few decades American society has become less tolerant of Christians particularly most recently in it's laws that allow abortions and the HHS mandates that basically forces religious institutions to provide contraceptives/abortionaficents which is directly againts it moral tenets....freedom of religion going out the window..what else is next.

Would you have the pew report link? I'm actually curious to see it.

One of the main core tenets of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is Divine and that we have a Triune God. JWs, Mormons, and other groups although read the Bible and claim to be Christian flat out reject such basic tenets of the faith like the Trinity. Most other Christian denominations do not consider these groups Christian....perhaps quasi-Christian. While on the flip side these same groups such as the JWs consider just about everyone else outside of their orgnaization part of the false religions described as Babylon in Scripture. Go figure.

I'm guessing the Pew Report places everyone who claims to follow the Bible into the category of Christianity.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:30 PM #230
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RLN it's more that that quote is normally used to justify doing pretty much nothing. I'm sure as you say that Assisi didn't mean it that way.

As for triune, I know that the divinity of Jesus is a requirement to be considered Christian, but accepting the doctrine of the trinity per se probably isn't necessary for salvation! Then again the RC church have a very different view of salvation as we've discussed.

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Old 12-23-2012, 10:51 PM #231
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I've never heard Francis' quote used to justify doing anything at all...that's a first...in fact I see his quote more of a challenge for us to live up to. I see the whole "eternal once saved always saved" as an excuse to do whatever you want thinking your saved just because you profess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and think you can go on living how ever you wish. I see that attitude quite often actually.

Doctrine of Trinity isn't necessary for Salvation?....hmm....that's first....I'll have to disagree with you there since Jesus' divinity goes hand in hand with the Trinity.

I agree Roman Catholicism's view of salvation is quite different from the other Christian denominations and I'm sure no matter how much I've explained it most in here people probably still hold to what they "think" Roman Catholicism teaches about salvation rather than listen to an actual Catholic explain it.

Which reminds me....no one ever addressed my challenge to Sola Scriptura so many threads ago.
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