Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-27-2012, 06:39 PM #1
khmergiant
 
 
khmergiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Several issues with my g4, I need some major guidance and a few beers!

OK, I'm having some major issues with my G4. I currently have the techt h.e. bolt as my only internal mechanical upgrade. Barrel kit and new ASA and a Halo Too hopper with s4 drive cone upgrade. I'm in CO and the primary field I play at shots at 285fps max. I went to chorono and I was shooting hot. Dropped the reg down a tad and got it to shot st 295. If I dropped it any lower, the adjustment would stop, I couldn't lower the pressure on the reg any further, essentially cutting off the air supply completely. At anything lower than 290 the bolt wouldn't completely cycle, for obvious reasons. All day I had spikes up to 325+ and lows of 247, even making adjustments at the chrono didn't effect the velocity. I have broken down the gun completely and relubed with sleek (dow33) after each time I played. I've only played with this gun since August and it's had complete teardowns each time all the way to relubing the noid. My first teardown to the noid, I did use dow 55 on the reg and maybe on the noid as well, can't remember.

Should I replace every oring in the gun?

The board is set at stock since I haven't has much more than 2 cases through it with the new bolt. I have replaced the the orings in the breech with what was supplied. When I can get on the field, I send a rope of 10 shots or so and I'll get a barrel break. Sometimes I get one shot and barrel break. It is so extreme in it's variations and completely unpredictable.

Should I drop the dwell so that I can increase the reg pressure?

Any suggestions would help greatly. I'm at my wits end and really struggling with the idea of putting too more money into it. I really like this gun, the guys at the PB shop aren't willing to work on it since they feel that DP's tolerances are too varying and CS isn't very good. I would love to prove them wrong, but it's becoming more and more difficult.

Please help! Thanks in advanced!
__________________
The Veeb
khmergiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 11-27-2012, 06:50 PM #2
Trigger Finger
Yetipb.com
 
Trigger Finger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northampton, PA
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger is attending Decay of Nations VI
Quote:
Originally Posted by khmergiant View Post
OK, I'm having some major issues with my G4. I currently have the techt h.e. bolt as my only internal mechanical upgrade. Barrel kit and new ASA and a Halo Too hopper with s4 drive cone upgrade. I'm in CO and the primary field I play at shots at 285fps max. I went to chorono and I was shooting hot. Dropped the reg down a tad and got it to shot st 295. If I dropped it any lower, the adjustment would stop, I couldn't lower the pressure on the reg any further, essentially cutting off the air supply completely. At anything lower than 290 the bolt wouldn't completely cycle, for obvious reasons. All day I had spikes up to 325+ and lows of 247, even making adjustments at the chrono didn't effect the velocity. I have broken down the gun completely and relubed with sleek (dow33) after each time I played. I've only played with this gun since August and it's had complete teardowns each time all the way to relubing the noid. My first teardown to the noid, I did use dow 55 on the reg and maybe on the noid as well, can't remember.

Should I replace every oring in the gun?

The board is set at stock since I haven't has much more than 2 cases through it with the new bolt. I have replaced the the orings in the breech with what was supplied. When I can get on the field, I send a rope of 10 shots or so and I'll get a barrel break. Sometimes I get one shot and barrel break. It is so extreme in it's variations and completely unpredictable.

Should I drop the dwell so that I can increase the reg pressure?

Any suggestions would help greatly. I'm at my wits end and really struggling with the idea of putting too more money into it. I really like this gun, the guys at the PB shop aren't willing to work on it since they feel that DP's tolerances are too varying and CS isn't very good. I would love to prove them wrong, but it's becoming more and more difficult.

Please help! Thanks in advanced!
it sounds like you need to try a fresh battery. also i would make sure that the reg is assembled correctly and that little ball bearing is not stuck or missing.

also leave the dwell alone. that wont solve any of your problems. it probably wouldnt hurt to service your noid again and use dow 33 not 55 in it
__________________
Reverse Poison 2K12 Bob Long G6R
DP G3 Spec r W/ Techt Bolt Engine, VP Deuce Trigger, and a 7E OLED Board
2K2 Vert. Feed Autococker W/ CCM Pump Kit and Gat Products A/T

My Gear Bag Sale!!! Click Me!
Trigger Finger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:55 PM #3
Trigger Finger
Yetipb.com
 
Trigger Finger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northampton, PA
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger is attending Decay of Nations VI
and the barrel breaks are probably due to the cold weather and crappy paint. there is nothing you can do to prevent it other than getting thicker shelled paint and matching your barrel bores to the paint.

if you have any more questions just post them in here
__________________
Reverse Poison 2K12 Bob Long G6R
DP G3 Spec r W/ Techt Bolt Engine, VP Deuce Trigger, and a 7E OLED Board
2K2 Vert. Feed Autococker W/ CCM Pump Kit and Gat Products A/T

My Gear Bag Sale!!! Click Me!
Trigger Finger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:57 PM #4
benzy2
angry bird
 
benzy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ohio
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
How does it shoot with the stock bolt?
benzy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:28 PM #5
khmergiant
 
 
khmergiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
it sounds like you need to try a fresh battery. also i would make sure that the reg is assembled correctly and that little ball bearing is not stuck or missing.

also leave the dwell alone. that wont solve any of your problems. it probably wouldnt hurt to service your noid again and use dow 33 not 55 in it
I did forget to mention, the battery was fresh out of the package Duracell from Kings the night before. The ball bearing is intact, I took apart the reg and relubed with dow 33 that night. The noid was done with dow 33 the last few times.

Please keep in mind this is also what I did the time before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
and the barrel breaks are probably due to the cold weather and crappy paint. there is nothing you can do to prevent it other than getting thicker shelled paint and matching your barrel bores to the paint.
Temp was 60ish, but I was shooting valken fate... I'll try graffiti next time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy2 View Post
How does it shoot with the stock bolt?
Stock bolt shots the same a lot of inconsistencies and barrel breaks the like.

If you take off all the dow 55 and relube with dow 33, will the oring shrink back down? I wouldn't think it would...
__________________
The Veeb
khmergiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:36 PM #6
xmc1146
Mount Vernon, Wa
 
xmc1146's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
xmc1146 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
xmc1146 is for the Gunfight
xmc1146 owns a Planet Eclipse GSL
what kind of hopper you using. when i switch to my friends rotor and my gun shoots fine but when i went back with the prophecy it was shooting to hard and breaking paint, so i took out all the outside magnets and lower the settings. its been fine ever since.
xmc1146 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:52 PM #7
khmergiant
 
 
khmergiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmc1146 View Post
what kind of hopper you using. when i switch to my friends rotor and my gun shoots fine but when i went back with the prophecy it was shooting to hard and breaking paint, so i took out all the outside magnets and lower the settings. its been fine ever since.
In shooting a halo too:

Feed rate: 3
sensitivity: 5
feedneck detection: on
__________________
The Veeb
khmergiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:57 PM #8
xmc1146
Mount Vernon, Wa
 
xmc1146's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
xmc1146 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
xmc1146 is for the Gunfight
xmc1146 owns a Planet Eclipse GSL
Quote:
Originally Posted by khmergiant View Post
In shooting a halo too:

Feed rate: 3
sensitivity: 5
feedneck detection: on

i dont know anything about halo too but i would suggest to lower the feed rate to 1. if it handles psp well, you should just stay with that, even in summer.
xmc1146 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:13 PM #9
firefoxx04
Up the Irons
 
firefoxx04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
firefoxx04 supports Bob Gurnsey
firefoxx04 supports DLX Technology
you MAYBE used dow55 on the noid? Your going to have a bad time.

follow the "How to fix out of box issues" thread at the top of this forum. Dont use dow55 on any part of the g4, its not required.
firefoxx04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:24 PM #10
Trigger Finger
Yetipb.com
 
Trigger Finger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northampton, PA
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger is attending Decay of Nations VI
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
you MAYBE used dow55 on the noid? Your going to have a bad time.

follow the "How to fix out of box issues" thread at the top of this forum. Dont use dow55 on any part of the g4, its not required.
i use 55 on the reg just for sealing purposes. i think it works slightly better than dow 33. but the noid is a different story dow 33 only please
__________________
Reverse Poison 2K12 Bob Long G6R
DP G3 Spec r W/ Techt Bolt Engine, VP Deuce Trigger, and a 7E OLED Board
2K2 Vert. Feed Autococker W/ CCM Pump Kit and Gat Products A/T

My Gear Bag Sale!!! Click Me!
Trigger Finger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:05 PM #11
khmergiant
 
 
khmergiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
i use 55 on the reg just for sealing purposes. i think it works slightly better than dow 33. but the noid is a different story dow 33 only please
I've done that for the last few times. If I did lube it with DOW55 a while ago, the last few times, I've switched to DOW 33. Will the orings still be swollen from the 55? If they are, would explain some of the inconsistencies? If that's the case, then where can I get some of the noid orings?
__________________
The Veeb
khmergiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:30 PM #12
disturbed989
gun whore addict
 
disturbed989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Annual Supporting Member
disturbed989 supports Team VICIOUS
disturbed989 supports Bob Gurnsey
disturbed989 is one of the top 250 posters on PbNation
disturbed989 is Boss
disturbed989 supports DLX Technology
It could explain your inconsistency. I would first try swapping out the reg with a known good one. Also don't worry about the barrel breaks/paint issue yet as that is most likely caused by the spikes and drops in fps.
disturbed989 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:26 AM #13
Master Baller
The Paintballn Doctor
 
Master Baller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Pming.. feel free to send it my way... will fix within 24hrs for you
Master Baller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:29 AM #14
noodles4u
 
 
noodles4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Jordan, UT
noodles4u owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
noodles4u has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
I can imagine swollen o-rings on the noid spool causing it to stick a bit, but I don't think that would make you shoot hot; you'd probably have "bolt stick" issues if that were the case.

Oringmonkey has a 2x rebuild kit for the DP noids for ten bucks, but you can probably pick up some 2x1mm BN70 orings for cheap... I think I bought a bag of 20 for like 5 bucks a while back... Don't know if they're still laying around.
__________________
USMC 0656/0933 (7/05 - 7/10)

PE Ego 9
Dangerous Power G3 Spec R
Smart Parts EOS
Spyder Imagine LED
noodles4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 02:46 PM #15
MstrKey
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SSM, Ontario, Canada
MstrKey is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
MstrKey is for the Gunfight
MstrKey supports our troops
One possibility is that your regulator isn't functioning properly. My guess is the shims are in wrong, or mnost likely you've damaged the regulator seat(common problem). This will cause erratic chronying because if the pressure is creeping you can never quite set the gun up in any way that will compensate for an constantly changing pressure. The fact you have to almost turn the reg off to keep it under 300 tells me this is your most likely problem.

You mentioned you have your dwell at the stock setting....but the stock setting is meant for the stock bolt, not the Techt bolt. The techt bolt requires a much lower dwell and a much lower pressure. You have the lower pressure part down.....but not the lower dwell. The higher flow characteristics of the techt bolt suggest that if you run the dwell too high, you may actually starve the gun of needed air to help it cycle properly when rapid firing. Make sure you get that straight.

Now either of these issues(as well as other ones others have mentioned) could cause you to break paint, but when you play in the cold, especially below 70 degrees you should always take other steps. Here is a list I've compiled, but only use them once you have everything else working properly.

Rules for the cold, using any gun:

Reduce hopper stack tension. Brittle paint breaks easier. If the paint in the stack can't rebound upward a tad.......then it takes the force of the bolt full on. This leads to more broken paint. Slowing down your hoppers feed rate can also help to a degree, if you don't have the ability to adjust your stack tension. Just give yourself a good margin for error between the guns ROF and the hoppers feed rate.

Run a larger bore barrel. Any balls that do get clipped in the stack will be more likely to burst using a tighter bore. This isn't a huge factor but every bit helps. Remember metal shrinks in the cold The bore that worked on a warm day may not work as well on a cold one. Paint needs to expand a bit when fired, so give it room.

Increase dwell time(may not be needed with techt bolt). Efficiency doesn't mean squat if you're making soup, or can't hit anything because of a dirty barrel. If you raise your dwell you can lower your chamber pressure and put a little less stress on the ball. This can also reduce your bolt speed which helps prevent stack clipping.

Keep it warm. Winter paint normally only has a non-freezing fill. The shell is usually the same old shell, and will still get brittle in the cold. Try to keep your paint warm as long as possible. Ideally in a heated car, or even a cooler bag with some type of warming device. Cycle unused cold paint back to the warm zone after every game. A few degrees makes a big difference.

Raise your eye delay. Running your hopper dry here and there isn't a big deal when the paint is nice and flexible. The warm flexible shell can deal with minor impacts caused by irregular feeding. In the cold you don't have this option. A higher eye delay will make sure those random gaps in your ball stack wont' result in a clipped ball. It only takes one broken ball to screw up your game. Why take the chance? The effect on your ROF is going to be minimal and besides........shooting slower without breaks is far more valueable than shooting fast and making soup.

Paint quality. As someone already said, use a cheaper paint thats meant to take more abuse. In the summer you may not want to touch brand X because it bounces too much. In the cold, this paint is exactly what you need. It's more durable BUT the cold temperatures will probably ensure that it still breaks on target without issues. Just not in your gun.

ROF. Generally speaking.....the faster you shoot the more paint you'll probably break on a good day. In the cold the probability increases. Cap your ROF at a level lower than what you're used to. Spray painting at 15bps only helps the other team. Shooting consistent accurate ropes at 10bps wins games.


Obviously some tips are more important than others but after many many years of playing in the cold, I've learned not to leave anything to chance.
__________________

ETEK 3LT, with 14" critical .680 barrel and cure 3 + bolt F/S

DM12 red with matching Boomy F/s
MstrKey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:58 PM #16
Oscar mike
 
 
Oscar mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Evansville, IN
Oscar mike owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Oscar mike owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Oscar mike supports DLX Technology
New HE bolt back cap is threaded for a gauge. try installing a gauge and see where the pressure is at. If it is high which it should be from how you explained it, then you will need to work on your reg or replace it.I think the G4 should be around 180-200 with stock bolt, less with tech t.
Oscar mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 05:04 PM #17
noodles4u
 
 
noodles4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Jordan, UT
noodles4u owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
noodles4u has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Mstr, I thought G4 regulator used a spring...
__________________
USMC 0656/0933 (7/05 - 7/10)

PE Ego 9
Dangerous Power G3 Spec R
Smart Parts EOS
Spyder Imagine LED
noodles4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:15 PM #18
khmergiant
 
 
khmergiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by noodles4u View Post
Mstr, I thought G4 regulator used a spring...
It does, and I also thought the reg seat issue was on the g3s... Correct me if I'm wrong.
__________________
The Veeb
khmergiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:45 PM #19
CA_Tectonics
 
 
CA_Tectonics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by khmergiant View Post
It does, and I also thought the reg seat issue was on the g3s... Correct me if I'm wrong.
On the first run or 2 of the G3s - Yes - but it was also user error ~90% of the time. The F8 has a similar silver reg piston/seat combo and most don't have issues (don't hear about it much here anyway).

However, getting back to the G4, it is possible to have an issue with the reg seat assembly in that the little ball bearing can get stuck and isn't moving freely as it should. Try taking the velocity adjustment screw all the way out and see if that ball is moving around o.k. in there.
__________________
Graphite Dangerous Power REV-I
TechT bolt engine, REV-I & Disruptive barrel kits, Prophecy V2 w/ Empire feedgate, Crossfire SS 68/4500
Maroon and Polished Aluminum Dangerous Power Threshold
7th Element board, TechT bolt engine, magnet trigger kit, REV-I PMD, Sly Dual Carbon barrel kit, Prophecy V2, Crossfire SS 68/4500
Black and Silver Dangerous Power F8
APE Rampage board, VS bolt, magnet trigger kit, F8 gauge, REDZ barrel kit, Halo B w/ Exalt feedgate, PMI 68/4500
Polished Aluminum and Red Dangerous Power F8
Virtue board, VS bolt, magnet trigger kit, Halo B w/ Exalt feedgate, PMI 68/4500
CA_Tectonics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:55 PM #20
khmergiant
 
 
khmergiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
On the first run or 2 of the G3s - Yes - but it was also user error ~90% of the time. The F8 has a similar silver reg piston/seat combo and most don't have issues (don't hear about it much here anyway).

However, getting back to the G4, it is possible to have an issue with the reg seat assembly in that the little ball bearing can get stuck and isn't moving freely as it should. Try taking the velocity adjustment screw all the way out and see if that ball is moving around o.k. in there.
Yeah, I went through that with the DP tech. ball bearing was moving fine and the reg seat was going up and down with a little pressure from my finger.
__________________
The Veeb
khmergiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:09 PM #21
CA_Tectonics
 
 
CA_Tectonics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by khmergiant View Post
Yeah, I went through that with the DP tech. ball bearing was moving fine and the reg seat was going up and down with a little pressure from my finger.
Cross that one off the list then.

Looking back through your thread here and I think at this point, you may want to just replace all the o-rings on the thing and try to start fresh. Something is obviously going on so might as well do an overhaul of the thing (this includes new o-rings for the noid piston). Thinking out of the box a tad here but could it have been a low battery in the chrono. I see that you said that making adjustments while at the chrono didn't change the velocity.
__________________
Graphite Dangerous Power REV-I
TechT bolt engine, REV-I & Disruptive barrel kits, Prophecy V2 w/ Empire feedgate, Crossfire SS 68/4500
Maroon and Polished Aluminum Dangerous Power Threshold
7th Element board, TechT bolt engine, magnet trigger kit, REV-I PMD, Sly Dual Carbon barrel kit, Prophecy V2, Crossfire SS 68/4500
Black and Silver Dangerous Power F8
APE Rampage board, VS bolt, magnet trigger kit, F8 gauge, REDZ barrel kit, Halo B w/ Exalt feedgate, PMI 68/4500
Polished Aluminum and Red Dangerous Power F8
Virtue board, VS bolt, magnet trigger kit, Halo B w/ Exalt feedgate, PMI 68/4500
CA_Tectonics is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump