Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-21-2012, 09:33 PM #1
Winger CT
Mouthy Mimes X.O.
 
Winger CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Connecticut
A new way to carry more air!

A few of you may remember my attempt to carry double air tanks when were among the Defenders at EMR Castle in 2011. I still have no clue if what I tried to do worked. I was too busy having my asparagus handed to me to notice. But I really liked the idea of being able to carry more air comfortably in some situations, and I'm sure other folks have tried to do the same in various ways.

A recent thread here on PBNation got me thinking, and after some great discussion with other players and Rob from Ninja, I came up with a device based on a Palmer's Pursuit tank extender. A little jiggering here, a little testing there, and after almost no serious injuries, I ended up with the Wing Tank Rig:



With this little beauty, you can mount one air tank on your marker, and wear a second tank on your back with a remote line. The regulator output pressures equalize, and your air capacity doubles without valves or other fittings. This means fewer trips to the air station and faster respawns, which in large games can make a big difference.

Here is how it looks mounted, with a RAP4 in-line shut off, which is optional:


I sent the idea to the nice folks at Palmer Pursuit, and they apparently liked it. They are now offering the Wing Tank rig at their website for $34.99, or a little more if you want a gauge installed on it. Believe me: that's a bargain.

It occurs to me that these could also be "stacked" into a kind of manifold for use in fixed positions or even in Tanks. Individual air tanks could be swapped out via remote lines. I think.

Anyway, I hope scenario folks find this useful. Except for those teams who we might be going up against. You should just forget all about this. It's a crazy dumb idea.
__________________
Mouthy Mimes.Com
Woodsball and Speedball Teams - Connecticut Chapter (HQ)

"Actions Speak Louder than Words"

Visit us on Facebook
and Visit some of our terrific Sponsors!

Last edited by Winger CT : 09-22-2012 at 09:04 AM.
Winger CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 09-25-2012, 09:54 PM #2
tvise
USPN Hollister CA
 
tvise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: California
tvise owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
tvise owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
tvise posts videos on PbNation
tvise has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
if one tank is empty and you fill the other does it try to fill the empty tank?
tvise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:49 AM #3
Winger CT
Mouthy Mimes X.O.
 
Winger CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Connecticut
Excellent question, and the answer is sometimes, sort of.

In most cases, you would start with both tanks full. Their combined regulator outputs equalize in the asa, and from there the tanks should empty more or less at the same rate, percentage wise. The variables are differences in the exact regulator output pressures, and the capacity of each tank.

Because of the back-check nipple, the only case where one tank will try to fill the other is if you have an empty tank on the marker, and then you connect a full remote tank to the wing tank nipple. At that point, the full tank will push some air back into the empty tank, but only at ~850 psi. So the empty tank will only refill to that pressure before they both equalize in the ASA again, and then you shoot until the remote tank reaches ~850 psi, then they both empty completely from there.

A full tank on the marker will never try to refill an empty remote tank at all, due the back-check nipple.

Craig Palmer says that this device should only be used with two identical tanks, btw, and although I've tested it with a 4500 and 3000 and it seemed to work fine, I will bow to his superior expertise.

Hmmm. I suppose if you REALLY wanted to get fancy, you could run a high pressure fill whip from the remote tank down through ther remote line cover so it exits near the marker tank. That could make it easier to refill each tank without dismantling anything.

If anyone sees any holes in my logic, btw, speak up!
__________________
Mouthy Mimes.Com
Woodsball and Speedball Teams - Connecticut Chapter (HQ)

"Actions Speak Louder than Words"

Visit us on Facebook
and Visit some of our terrific Sponsors!

Last edited by Winger CT : 09-26-2012 at 09:16 AM.
Winger CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:35 AM #4
Winger CT
Mouthy Mimes X.O.
 
Winger CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Connecticut
Replying to you, tvise, just made me think of one mega No-No:

Never try to refill the tank(s) using the wing tank nipple! Like most of us, your average paintball marker would not enjoy getting 5000psi up their hind end. Sorta like getting a colonoscopy without the pleasant parts.

Marking the wing tank nipple with red tape or paint, or a "NO FILL" label would probably be prudent...
__________________
Mouthy Mimes.Com
Woodsball and Speedball Teams - Connecticut Chapter (HQ)

"Actions Speak Louder than Words"

Visit us on Facebook
and Visit some of our terrific Sponsors!
Winger CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:30 AM #5
subyrally
Trust your turbo lust
 
subyrally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Frederick, Md
i have seen people use the remote line on the fill nipple of the marker mounted tank, since you are only usually getting 850psi out of the remote tank, it usually isnt going to be an issue of over pressurizing the tanks. i have actually tried it when one of my tanks ran out, but i was only on a testing range, not actually playing at the time. this is pretty cool though, it would be a great thing for use during a long scenario game.
subyrally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 06:53 PM #6
[NA]WARLORD
 
 
[NA]WARLORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sunny FLA !!!!!!!!!!!
[NA]WARLORD is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
[NA]WARLORD has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
[NA]WARLORD supports Empire
Not to burst your bubble, but RAP4 has had one of these out for awhile.

Found here and it's 10.00 cheaper

Last edited by [NA]WARLORD : 09-27-2012 at 06:58 PM.
[NA]WARLORD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:44 PM #7
Winger CT
Mouthy Mimes X.O.
 
Winger CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Connecticut


Well, ya know what they teach us at Inventor School: "if it seems like a good idea... you're too late."

Thanks for the heads up Warlord. I'd never heard of or seen those before.
I do like the fact that I can install a pressure gauge in the Palmer one,
which can be tough to add to scenario markers.



But clearly the Rap4 item is meant to solve the same problem, so they got me beat.

Except for the name. "Wing Tank rig" is clearly cooler than "90 Degree Remote Line Adapter with One Way Valve".
__________________
Mouthy Mimes.Com
Woodsball and Speedball Teams - Connecticut Chapter (HQ)

"Actions Speak Louder than Words"

Visit us on Facebook
and Visit some of our terrific Sponsors!
Winger CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 10:15 PM #8
[NA]WARLORD
 
 
[NA]WARLORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sunny FLA !!!!!!!!!!!
[NA]WARLORD is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
[NA]WARLORD has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
[NA]WARLORD supports Empire
Well, there is a silver lining in all this RAP4's nickname is cRAP4 as they make some questionable products unlike Palmers who makes decent ones If I ran a remote I might buy one of these but running without one makes it easier to switch hands if you have too, just my opinion
[NA]WARLORD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 12:58 PM #9
ps7ctr31
Shep
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Jersey
ps7ctr31 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
ps7ctr31 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
I run two tanks through a T-Fitting to two remotes. You can use the same premise for running 2 tanks to 1 remote or two markers/pistols/launchers off one tank with a Y-Fitting. You will drain both tanks at relatively the same rate. Make sure the fittings you buy are rated high enough. The 250 PSI fittings you can find at your local hardware store won't cut it.

Pics on my Walking Tank's Facebook page.
__________________

"I don't always wipe but when I do itís the field with you."
The Most Interesting Walking Paintball Tank in the World
ps7ctr31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 09:20 AM #10
JESTERTLS
 
 
JESTERTLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newton, NC
I'd pay the extra $10 for Palmer all day long over RAP.
__________________
JesterTLS "The Great and Powerful."
Team ODX, Detachment 4-Armor
www.cdpaintball.com www.scenariosupply.com www.MilSimEmpire.com
JESTERTLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 10:36 AM #11
Killa Daddy Of Two
Killa Daddy of Two
 
Killa Daddy Of Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arvada, CO
Killa Daddy Of Two is playing at Living Legends V
Killa Daddy Of Two owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
Killa Daddy Of Two has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Killa Daddy Of Two is attending Decay of Nations VI
Lapco makes the same Device... It is really handy in using this, but instead of outputting to a fill nipple or a guage, sending the pressure out through a line,and out to a Metadyne Havoc, mounted under a barrel. Its nice, because your plumbing is very clean, and it is easily reversible.
__________________
www.sfdeltat.com
and PROUDLY SPONSORED BY www.savephace.com
Proudly supporting, www.warpaintpb.com, and www.paintballx3.com
Killa Daddy Of Two is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 12:13 PM #12
Boom Master
Scenario Player
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: St. Louis MO, USA, EARTH
They do make different quick disconnect fittings that you could use to prevent trying to put 3000 psi into a marker. Saved my bacon in my walking tank. Guy tried to hook HPA into my cannons air chamber fill which is rated a measly 200 psi. Said it wouldn't go on the nipple. Yeah, try the nipple that is on the neck of the air tank.... Stuff happens out there. Make it idiot proof. Some of the paintball remote hose fittings and disconnects are not compatable with the air tank fill nipples. But they don't come with that built in check valve that you would need as illustrated.

You could just SCREW the a remote hose with a ball valve on/off directly into the adaptor fitting. Remove the quick disconnect male and female. That would eliminate the problem. No place to hook up HPA wrong.

To answer the backfill question.. The pressure regs on the air tanks will not back fill. They are one way outputs only. In addition, you will find that the output of the paintball regulators in the tanks are close but not identical outputs. So the one that has the LOWEST output will be used first and empty down until the TANK pressure drops below the output pressure of the air tank that has the higher reg output. Then they would both discharge more or less equally.

I use two HPA tanks through two inline paintball regs to increase my fill rate into the cannon air chamber. To increase that fill rate (thus ROF) I found it necessary to match all the regs as close as possible. Cannons are air hogs so the demand pressure is very low early in the refil process. So ALL the regs are wide open but the one with the lowest settings, shut off first and the fill is by only one reg at that point. If not equally matched as close as possible , it slows the rate of fire In a marker, I doubt it would be so critical. HPA tank regs can keep up with the ROF of any marker.
__________________
Carefully planned irresponsibility is the KEY to mental health.

If you haven't grown up by age 50........

You don't have to......

Last edited by Boom Master : 12-04-2012 at 12:29 PM.
Boom Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 12:30 PM #13
The Inflicted
.detcilfnI ehT
 
The Inflicted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Reminds me of the days of the VM68s when you would see triple-tank setups.




The Inflicted is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 10:08 PM #14
die.another.day
 
 
die.another.day's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
No SERIOUS injurys lol
die.another.day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 01:49 AM #15
GRIMREAPER45AUTO
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvise View Post
if one tank is empty and you fill the other does it try to fill the empty tank?
No it does not fill other tank I have 2 90 ci 4500 PSI tanks that I wear the back of my vest with a t valve in between them with 1 remote to gun and when I fill 1 all the way up to 4500 the other will not go up remember there's a regulator on tank that only let's 850 psi out of tank so it will not let 4500 psi out to asa. I will run out of paint before I run out of air
GRIMREAPER45AUTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 08:06 AM #16
SKO_GONZO
S.K.O.
 
SKO_GONZO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Riley, KS
SKO_GONZO owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
SKO_GONZO has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
SKO_GONZO has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Great idea for the first one but as a Scenario player I like the idea that "The Inflicted " has on his vest very nice.
__________________
Are you a Scenario/Big Game Player that needs a home? Check us out: Stategic Kings, Operators Gonzo SKO Founder.

Thanks to our sponsors: | Valken | SM Tactical | FOXHOLE Paintball store and field | M.N. P.I.R.O.D. | Quantico Tactical
SKO_GONZO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 11:02 AM #17
Reaper1101
 
 
Reaper1101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
I might pick one of these up and throw a 90* macrofitting on there. That way people with macroless guns can put an under mount havoc on their gun.
__________________
Montgomery County Station 500 Firefighter
1st Fallschirmjagers
Reaper1101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 08:07 PM #18
Christian P
UWL and Scenario
 
Christian P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Christian P is playing at Living Legends VI
Christian P is playing at Living Legends VII
Christian P has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Christian P is attending Decay of Nations VII
I carry 45-3000 in a remote line tank I swap out for the 45-4500 carbon fiber I play. Once the carbon fiber is empty, I play the aluminum tank, and my last 2 pods out of the 6 I carry.

I have lasted 6 hours playing this setup with 6 pods and a hopper at a day game in Ohio.
Christian P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 08:03 PM #19
Winger CT
Mouthy Mimes X.O.
 
Winger CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Connecticut
Reaper cool idea wrt the havoc, but I suggest you stick with the 45 degree elbow. I found the 90 doesn't seal properly when using the design approach I posted. That shouldn't limit your idea, though.
__________________
Mouthy Mimes.Com
Woodsball and Speedball Teams - Connecticut Chapter (HQ)

"Actions Speak Louder than Words"

Visit us on Facebook
and Visit some of our terrific Sponsors!
Winger CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 10:03 PM #20
Reaper1101
 
 
Reaper1101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
I did it. The 90 works great.
__________________
Montgomery County Station 500 Firefighter
1st Fallschirmjagers
Reaper1101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 11:41 AM #21
Winger CT
Mouthy Mimes X.O.
 
Winger CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Connecticut
Now I get it. Since you are making a macroline connection,and not disconnecting it often, the self-sealing piston aspect doesn't matter in your application.
__________________
Mouthy Mimes.Com
Woodsball and Speedball Teams - Connecticut Chapter (HQ)

"Actions Speak Louder than Words"

Visit us on Facebook
and Visit some of our terrific Sponsors!
Winger CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump