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Old 12-07-2012, 11:32 AM #43
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I think this is just a reflection of the further degradation of the GOP base by tea party neanderthals who love to pretend theres some sort of international conspiracy against the U.S.

see: every city council proposal that supports urban development. the "agenda 21" crazies come out.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/pol...-planning/718/

Last edited by licence2kill : 12-07-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:42 AM #44
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What is Agenda 21?
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:44 AM #45
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That's what's so damn embarrassing about this whole thing! Walking is supposed to be HARDER than talking! This treaty is closely based on our own policies for equality for those with disabilities, yet we can't even say that it's a good thing because our congress has members that simply won't do anything cooperative with the UN. Period. This should have been the easiest thing to sign this year, and we still can't manage to convince some of our lawmakers that we're not alone in the world. It's shameful, plain and simple.
Just because it is our policy does not necessarily mean that we should sign an international treaty regarding it. If it doesn't do anything to benefit us and or leading-example is already influencing other countries why would we sign something that could commit us to something down the road that may not be what we expected?
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:56 PM #46
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Just because it is our policy does not necessarily mean that we should sign an international treaty regarding it. If it doesn't do anything to benefit us and or leading-example is already influencing other countries why would we sign something that could commit us to something down the road that may not be what we expected?
Because it doesn't commit us to something further down the road? Its a symbolic gesture, and instead the GOP chose the symbolic gesture of giving the rest of the world the finger. It doesn't exactly help pressure developing nations into going along with things like this when the country that the treaty is supposedly modeled on can't even be bothered to sign a piece of paper saying they agree with it.

But hey lets just trash **** because "**** the UN" right, because I know I want our foreign policy modeled after a teenager throwing a temper tantrum.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:01 PM #47
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The general impression I'm getting is that those in favor of the treaty are throwing the temper tantrum because their "symbolic gesture" got rejected. Lot's of feet stomping and ridicule going around.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:06 PM #48
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
The general impression I'm getting is that those in favor of the treaty are throwing the temper tantrum because their "symbolic gesture" got rejected. Lot's of feet stomping and ridicule going around.
You struggle with abstract concepts don't you?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:14 PM #49
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You struggle with abstract concepts don't you?
Neither my ability to understand abstract concepts, nor my opinion of the outcome of this treaty have anything to do with the reaction on part of the proponents.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:22 PM #50
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Because it doesn't commit us to something further down the road? Its a symbolic gesture, and instead the GOP chose the symbolic gesture of giving the rest of the world the finger. It doesn't exactly help pressure developing nations into going along with things like this when the country that the treaty is supposedly modeled on can't even be bothered to sign a piece of paper saying they agree with it.

But hey lets just trash <del>****</del> because "<del>****</del> the UN" right, because I know I want our foreign policy modeled after a teenager throwing a temper tantrum.
How does signing a treaty NOT commit us to something down the road? What if we want to change something here that no longer agrees with the policy? Would we not get ridiculed or have the UN take some action?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:30 PM #51
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How does signing a treaty NOT commit us to something down the road? What if we want to change something here that no longer agrees with the policy? Would we not get ridiculed or have the UN take some action?
First of all if we change laws to screw the disabled we deserve to get **** for it, but for the what, seventh time now, the UN can't take action based on this treaty, it's advisory.

Really. "What if we want to take away rights from the disabled down the road?" Listen to yourself. For shame. For shame.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:33 PM #52
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First of all if we change laws to screw the disabled we deserve to get <del>****</del> for it, but for the what, seventh time now, the UN can't take action based on this treaty, it's advisory.

Really. "What if we want to take away rights from the disabled down the road?" Listen to yourself. For shame. For shame.
So if we aren't in "compliance" with it you are telling me the UN won't use that against us in any way whatsoever?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:41 PM #53
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So if we aren't in "compliance" with it you are telling me the UN won't use that against us in any way whatsoever?
I think you are giving far too much credit to the UN's abilities to influence the actions of the US.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:43 PM #54
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So if we aren't in "compliance" with it you are telling me the UN won't use that against us in any way whatsoever?
1.) Not in any meaningful way. When the UN drafts resolutions telling us we've been bad, we just ignore them.
2.) If we aren't in compliance, why shouldn't they use that against us?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:43 PM #55
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This treaty was a waste of time and I'm glad it didn't go through. The vast majority of disabled people in this country are properly taken care of, along with the vast majority of disabled people in countries that someone would want to study abroad in. As far as the UN goes, they can **** themselves and I want my country to have nothing to do with such a haphazard and *** backwards organization.
This.

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As someone who has been to another country to observe and compare treatment of persons with disabilities I can comfortably say that you have absolutely no idea what in the hell you are talking about.
And how does that affect us? We have enough issues in our own to keep us occupied for generations. As long as our foreign assets are being protected, worry about what's going on inside our borders.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:47 PM #56
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I think you are giving far too much credit to the UN's abilities to influence the actions of the US.
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1.) Not in any meaningful way. When the UN drafts resolutions telling us we've been bad, we just ignore them.
2.) If we aren't in compliance, why shouldn't they use that against us?
Maybe I am. But if it is as pointless as you say why sign it? Personally I think we should because I support helping the disabled. I just don't see the point of making such a big deal about not signing it we are already doing it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:49 PM #57
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Maybe I am. But if it is as pointless as you say why sign it? Personally I think we should because I support helping the disabled. I just don't see the point of making such a big deal about not signing it we are already doing it.
Holy crap I have to spell it out.

It wouldn't be for the benefit of people here. It would be for the benefit of disabled people in other countries. If the US is on board, it gives the treaty more symbolic power in the international community.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:55 PM #58
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If 155 other countries are already on board, why does the US matter that much?

edit - This other article says 126 countries, but another said 155...

Last edited by Animal_Mother : 12-07-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:56 PM #59
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Holy crap I have to spell it out.

It wouldn't be for the benefit of people here. It would be for the benefit of disabled people in other countries. If the US is on board, it gives the treaty more symbolic power in the international community.
So if we sign it then say **** disabled people. What then? Does it still matter that we signed it? I seriously doubt it because actions speak louder than words.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:00 PM #60
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See the thing is, if we ratified it, being a relatively innocuous, unequivocably good treaty that we authored after pioneering the positive changes for the disabled, it's not that big a deal because it's a no-brainer and advisory anyway.

BUT

The fact that we couldn't ratify it because of a handful of morally bankrupt whackjobs is a much bigger deal, because you have to go out of your way to be that much of a dickhead. The fact that we have enough people going out of their way to be dickheads to influence what we as a nation do is a much, much more conspicuous and worrisome thing for the entire world. And it is a HUGE concern for us here because they hold and regularly pull levers that are more than advisory and often unequivocably bad.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:03 PM #61
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Yet we still have floods of people from every other country coming to ours because they know it's better here. Everyone in the wold knows we take care of perfectly abled lazy ****s, let alone truly disabled and unfortunate people. Us not signing this stupid *** treaty won't change anything in the world.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:06 PM #62
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So if we sign it then say **** disabled people. What then? Does it still matter that we signed it? I seriously doubt it because actions speak louder than words.
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Yet we still have floods of people from every other country coming to ours because they know it's better here. Everyone in the wold knows we take care of perfectly abled lazy ****s, let alone truly disabled and unfortunate people. Us not signing this stupid *** treaty won't change anything in the world.


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Last edited by Umami : 12-07-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:09 PM #63
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The Bush Whitehouse negotiated this treaty in 2006. McCain And Bob Dole are for it. Veteran groups, The disability community and business groups support it. Santorum and his ilk are using abortion and home schooling as reasons for not signing, when the treaty has NOTHING to do with either of those talking points. Quit trying to defend teabagger obstuctionism and downplaying the absolute absurdity of the dissenting voters reasoning in this matter.The f**king treaty is modeled on current US law. If you don't think voting against this treaty doesn't make the US and especially the ultra conservatives look like a horses rear end then you have perception problems my friends.
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