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Old 12-04-2012, 03:45 PM #64
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Again, I am not a gun expert by any standard, so correct me if I am wrong but:

Sales of the Five-seven were originally restricted by FN to military and law enforcement customers, but since 2004, the pistol has also been offered to civilian shooters. The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[22] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.

It seems as if the intent of this weapon is designed to be pretty hard core. That is not to say that it should or shouldn't be legal. But why do you feel the legislation to include this gun (designed for military/law enforcement) is "disconnected from reality" when the intention of the legislation was to prevent weapons like this? Like the legislation or not, it seems to me at least that this falls under the type of guns that the legislators were against.
9mm, the most common handgun round, was develop for the military. So was the .45ACP.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:16 PM #65
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I'll even expand on that. Other technologies are initially developed for the military to gain an technological edge against our enemies and allies. This tech then trickles down into the civilian sector later on once it becomes cheaper and more readily available. Had it not been for the wars, would we have the new life saving measures in place today? 20-30 years ago, if someone stepped on a preasure plate and lost both legs, chances were those individuals didn't even have a chance at life. With the new combat medicine and techniques, the question of 'if' we will save them, it's a 'how long' for recovery. Think we would be as far along as we are with prosthetic for amputees? The internet, satellites, communication lines...all developed for military use and now look where they are. The argument that the 5.7mm was designed for the military is moot.


Everyone looks at things from a negative point of view. Take away the bias for a second and look at something from all perspectives. If slavery never took place, would we have a black president?
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:20 PM #66
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The microwave was developed by the military, we should ban those.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:43 PM #67
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If only the liberals had their way.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:50 PM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperForce-Duffek View Post
I'll even expand on that. Other technologies are initially developed for the military to gain an technological edge against our enemies and allies. This tech then trickles down into the civilian sector later on once it becomes cheaper and more readily available. Had it not been for the wars, would we have the new life saving measures in place today? 20-30 years ago, if someone stepped on a preasure plate and lost both legs, chances were those individuals didn't even have a chance at life. With the new combat medicine and techniques, the question of 'if' we will save them, it's a 'how long' for recovery. Think we would be as far along as we are with prosthetic for amputees? The internet, satellites, communication lines...all developed for military use and now look where they are. The argument that the 5.7mm was designed for the military is moot.
One of my regulars at the bar I used to work at is a maxillofacial trauma surgeon who was previously stationed at a couple of different FOB's in Iraq and Afghanistan. He got into the Army prior to 9/11 and got out of med school just after the Invasion of Iraq in '03. He was, hands down, one of the most outspoken critics of the Iraq War that I had ever met and he hated almost everything about the war. The one thing he hung on to, however, was the trauma experience, not only for himself but for the entire next generation of trauma professionals. He said that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have provided more data, experience, and innovation to the entire field of trauma medicine than the 40 years prior worldwide. He gave me figures for the life expectancy of area-specific injuries between the first Iraq war and now, and I was absolutely floored at how far we've come. From what he claimed, the data derived from military trauma experience in Iraq and Afghanistan will completely reshape how trauma medicine is practiced in the civilian world.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:58 PM #69
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To be clear:

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It seems as if the intent of this weapon is designed to be pretty hard core. That is not to say that it should or shouldn't be legal.
I personally see no problem with a mentally capable person owning any weapon they want (within reason; tanks and missiles). My only quip with weapon ownership is the ~60% of gun sales that go unregulated. But that's for another thread.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:02 PM #70
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I glad you posted that as it definitely expands where I was headed with it. It is absolutely, 100% true. My overall point, is just because something is provided in a 'military or LE' sense, doesn't mean it's bad. It means it hasn't trickled down to the masses yet. You can't deny that wars, regardless right or wrong, spur innovation. I appreciate the post Stellar.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:38 PM #71
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WWJD? Buy a Glock...apparently

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Old 12-05-2012, 12:02 AM #72
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WWJD? Buy a Glock...apparently

Lolz, what a ****head. What a blatant twisting of words and sheer out of context bull****-ery. Again, funny but ultimately very sad.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:19 AM #73
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Lute Olsen's brother.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:39 AM #74
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What did the Dali llama say about guns? Or Ghandi?
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:59 AM #75
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What did the Dali llama say about guns? Or Ghandi?
"Locked, cocked, and ready to rock."

-Ghandi

"Well, there's this passage I've got memorized, sorta fits the occasion. Ezekiel 25:17? "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. [begins pacing about the room] And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord... [pulls out his gun and aims it at Brett] ...when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
[Brett shrieks in horror as the Dahli Lama shoots him repeatedly]


- The Dahli Lama

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Old 12-05-2012, 02:26 PM #76
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I continue to find it funny that people decry the AWB for being largely nonsensical then claim that the AWB would not have banned any particular gun for logical reasons.

All this rah rah bull**** is irrelevant.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:29 PM #77
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I continue to find it funny that people decry the AWB for being largely nonsensical then claim that the AWB would not have banned any particular gun for logical reasons.

All this rah rah bull**** is irrelevant.
How is that funny? The AWB had one point, to make assault rifles and weapons that looked like them illegal. It's nonsensical because the restrictions are almost entirely arbitrary with respect to how deadly the weapon is. It was a bad piece of legislation shoehorned into a larger bill, how is that hard to grasp?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:32 PM #78
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How is that funny? The AWB had one point, to make assault rifles and weapons that looked like them illegal. It's nonsensical because the restrictions are almost entirely arbitrary with respect to how deadly the weapon is. It was a bad piece of legislation shoehorned into a larger bill, how is that hard to grasp?
Because the bill, in some respect, bares a resemblance to a moral aversion he holds. Similar to conservatives and gov't assistance.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:33 PM #79
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Because the bill, in some respect, bares a resemblance to a moral aversion he holds. Similar to conservatives and gov't assistance.
I was hoping he'd reach this conclusion himself but let's see if your help speeds it up.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:41 PM #80
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How is that funny? The AWB had one point, to make assault rifles and weapons that looked like them illegal. It's nonsensical because the restrictions are almost entirely arbitrary with respect to how deadly the weapon is. It was a bad piece of legislation shoehorned into a larger bill, how is that hard to grasp?
What's so hard to grasp that you can't say it wouldn't have banned any particular weapon for logical reasons because of what you just said? And that the Five-Seven would have been a prime candidate precisely for the same reasons?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:43 PM #81
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What's so hard to grasp that you can't say it wouldn't have banned any particular weapon for logical reasons because of what you just said? And that the Five-Seven would have been a prime candidate precisely for the same reasons?
Please, list the statue in the AWB that the Five Seven violated.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:50 PM #82
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Please, list the statue in the AWB that the Five Seven violated.
Well as previously mentioned, the magazines did violate the capacity limits of the AWB (which, not coincidentally, was a criterion for its purchase by Nidal).

However obviously if the gun itself was in direct violation of the AWB, I would not need to be making the case that it would have been the subject of additional legislation or executive order subsequent to the Fort Hood shootings. So perhaps you misunderstood what I said. Implicit in what I said is that it was NOT covered by the AWB, but would have gotten an immediate, jaundiced look in the aftermath.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:51 PM #83
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Restricted magazine sizes were commonly done to make a weapon AWB legal.

This scenario is in your gun legislation friendly world?
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:11 PM #84
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Restricted magazine sizes were commonly done to make a weapon AWB legal.
Yes I know this, living in a state that still has capacity limits.

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This scenario is in your gun legislation friendly world?
Yes, the parameter set by the original post by Tafari I responded to when discussing topic, that the AWB still existed. He claimed with certainty the Five-Seven would have been legal, I suspect there's a good chance it would not have been, and come to think of it may have never been sold on the civilian market here.
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