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Old 12-03-2012, 08:38 PM #85
justicexd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AviatorMan View Post
Early in my research, but this guy says that bore has nothing to do with accuracy and mostly controls efficiency and consistency. If that is really the case and I'm primarily looking for accuracy, then I can put off going for a better barrel for a while until I feel like I really need it.

I don't agree with everything in his video, but he is correct about accuracy, bore size will not effect accuracy. quality paint= good accuracy.

As far as the .693 barrel goes, I would most certainly get something closer to the .685 range because paints is much smaller than it was 15 years ago. Also, since Etek's are as loud as cannons, you might want to invest in a barrel that will reduce the sound signature. Disruptive barrels are probably one of the best choices for reducing sound.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:38 PM #86
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Nothing wrong with overbore at .689 but .694 is overkill in my opinion. I was going to stick with the stock barrel and I had some paint in my box with my barrel when I was straightening up. I picked the barrel up and several balls rolled out like it was nothing. I am not expert but at a certain point it seems like you have to be overboring too much.

I played with the stock barrel and its OK to play with but it seemed like a smaller bore barrel shot better when I tried it, just something to think about.

But if your thinking about getting another back I would do it before long in case the backs on the shaft3 get hard to find. I dont think you need to invest in a bunch of different backs. If you want to overbore just get a .685.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:31 AM #87
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Originally Posted by Castro #66 View Post
Consistency=precision. Precision is the closest thing we have to accuracy in paintball given the characteristics of our projectiles. I encourage your research, but I can assure you I've been through it all, and am just trying to help. I'm a moderator for more reasons than simply having a cute butt.
I'm not sure if the thinking / design philosophy has changed a lot since I last played, or if I just never really knew all that much in the first place (I was 16 after all), but back then, a good barrel meant good accuracy at range and paint seemed like a whole lot less of an issue than it is today. Suddenly it seems like the best barrel in the world won't counter cheap paint so you might as well not waste too much money on a really good barrel unless you know you're paint is going to be worth shooting through it. So far, my recent experience with local field paint has been pretty dismal with broken balls just setting the bag down in the trunk of my car and even more caused by reaching into the bag to load up my hopper / pods. I doubt that's the overall quality of the paint I'm going to have access to at local fields, but if I can't make that junk fly at least somewhat straight with a better barrel, I don't see all that much reason to really sink money into one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justicexd View Post
I don't agree with everything in his video, but he is correct about accuracy, bore size will not effect accuracy. quality paint= good accuracy.

As far as the .693 barrel goes, I would most certainly get something closer to the .685 range because paints is much smaller than it was 15 years ago. Also, since Etek's are as loud as cannons, you might want to invest in a barrel that will reduce the sound signature. Disruptive barrels are probably one of the best choices for reducing sound.
I can't really say just how worried I'm going to be about gun noise at this point since I've yet to fire a single ball through it, but I know that a hush bolt is supposed to drop noise down by quite a bit. I will have to do more research about the barrel tips and what they do to efficiency, consistency, and accuracy, if anything before I commit to something like that because when all is said and done, I'm generally much more concerned with putting paint on target accurately than I am about keeping my gun quiet.

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Originally Posted by KYhillbilly View Post
Nothing wrong with overbore at .689 but .694 is overkill in my opinion. I was going to stick with the stock barrel and I had some paint in my box with my barrel when I was straightening up. I picked the barrel up and several balls rolled out like it was nothing. I am not expert but at a certain point it seems like you have to be overboring too much.

I played with the stock barrel and its OK to play with but it seemed like a smaller bore barrel shot better when I tried it, just something to think about.

But if your thinking about getting another back I would do it before long in case the backs on the shaft3 get hard to find. I dont think you need to invest in a bunch of different backs. If you want to overbore just get a .685.
If I'm going to get a barrel at this point, or kit for that matter, it would probably be a Dye, mostly because its one of the few names I recognize. That being said, I have a lot of research to do, both in barrel technology and manufacturers, but also in paintball ballistics and the associated physics. I want to know the why behind every part of the paint / barrel / gun mixture that causes some combinations to be more accurate and others not and then find the right barrel or combination of barrel parts to maximize accuracy for my gun and the paint available to me.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:35 AM #88
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I own: tipp a5-tipp 98-dp f8-dp g3-dp g4- sp sp1- Have shot pe etha.The tippmans are old school/technology at this point, skip them. The pe etha I shot reminded me of a tippmann, big heavy bolt, lots of recoil and kinda of loud (I'll get flamed for etha comments).Huge stock barrel (.693?).Pros on etha-pe customer service, water proof board. dp g3- needs to much in upgrades to be good,IMO you need-cp trigger-board-cp reg-techt bolt engine.sp1, black heart board sucks, (i know i have both blackheart and regular)stay with the stock one which limits you to 11 bps, not good for laying down large amounts of paint.Gun requires IMO a techt bolt,$50.Internal hoses a negative and if you need to clean/work on ball detents ETC. you have to take gun completely apart loosen banjo fittings etc. You would outgrow this gun fast.DP G4- Good gun stock, a little on the loud side stock. Easy maintenance,robust solnoid/construction.Buy one used ( ebay,trade my gun), the used price was about $225 before new dp g5 came out, maybe they will drop in price?Only recommended upgrade new techt he bolt, makes gun quiet and better on air.Good for sniping and able to lay down some paint.Empire mini-many versions of used ones as they tried to get it right, tight ergonomics and asa/reg on bottom of grip you're stuck with.Proto/dye guns have alot of orings, I never owned proto but the're supposed to shoot good. To many orings for me.Dp f8- requires to many upgrades to get it where it needs to be,You would have to pick one up for about $100 to make f8 worth it. You would need to get a barrel or 2. Find out what the GOOD paint in you're area is running size wise. Good paint and the right barrel are most over looked factors. I prefer 1 piece barrels over two piece. Recommended barrels-lurker eigenbarrel-disruptive 1 piece or disruptive 2 piece ballanced or death touch. I feel that 1 piece barrels are quieter than 2 piece so this may be a factor in sniping.If you under bore only under bore by about .003. Depending on your paint size .682 maybe best all around size.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:38 AM #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castro #66
Consistency=precision. Precision is the closest thing we have to accuracy in paintball given the characteristics of our projectiles. I encourage your research, but I can assure you I've been through it all, and am just trying to help. I'm a moderator for more reasons than simply having a cute butt.
Damn...now this was a good post. Not the butt part though. But everything else lol
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:45 AM #90
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The paint you shot may have been good quality, but depending on atmospheric conditions, it may have been over brittle. In this case, sometimes an overbore is the way to go, but tighter bores can also help. Sometimes, there's no saving it! Having options helps!
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:01 AM #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by van457 View Post
I own:
-tipp a5
-tipp 98
-dp f8
-dp g3
-dp g4
-sp sp1
-Have shot pe etha.

The tippmans are old school/technology at this point, skip them.
The pe etha I shot reminded me of a tippmann, big heavy bolt, lots of recoil and kinda of loud (I'll get flamed for etha comments). Huge stock barrel (.693?)
Pros on etha
-pe customer service
-water proof board

DP G3
-needs to much in upgrades to be good. IMO you need:
  • cp trigger
  • board
  • cp reg
  • techt bolt engine

SP1, black heart board sucks, (i know i have both blackheart and regular) stay with the stock one which limits you to 11 bps, not good for laying down large amounts of paint. Gun requires IMO a techt bolt,$50. Internal hoses a negative and if you need to clean/work on ball detents ETC. you have to take gun completely apart loosen banjo fittings etc. You would outgrow this gun fast.

DP G4- Good gun stock, a little on the loud side stock. Easy maintenance,robust solnoid/construction.Buy one used (ebay,trade my gun), the used price was about $225 before new dp g5 came out, maybe they will drop in price? Only recommended upgrade new techt he bolt, makes gun quiet and better on air. Good for sniping and able to lay down some paint.

Empire Mini- many versions of used ones as they tried to get it right, tight ergonomics and asa/reg on bottom of grip you're stuck with.

Proto/dye guns have alot of orings, I never owned proto but the're supposed to shoot good. To many orings for me.

DP F8- requires to many upgrades to get it where it needs to be,You would have to pick one up for about $100 to make f8 worth it. You would need to get a barrel or 2. Find out what the GOOD paint in you're area is running size wise. Good paint and the right barrel are most over looked factors. I prefer 1 piece barrels over two piece.

Recommended barrels
-lurker eigenbarrel
-disruptive 1 piece or disruptive 2 piece ballanced or death touch.

I feel that 1 piece barrels are quieter than 2 piece so this may be a factor in sniping.If you under bore only under bore by about .003. Depending on your paint size .682 maybe best all around size.
In a good mood today....and rather bored at work. Figured I'd help you restructure this a bit. Make it a bit easier to read
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:10 AM #92
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I maintain my kids guns as well as my own and the Ion XE / eXTCy seems to be the least trouble of the set (Phantom excluded) and I would recommend doing a used Halo, (I have bought 3 this past year) and they are easy rebuild able. As far as tanks I have bought 4 in the same timeframe and all were used also, one needed hydro and a new reg, figure $75ish for all that including shipping. You can do all that Ion XE used / used Halo and used tank for $300.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:27 AM #93
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Thanks soulo6. I didn't realize he bought a etek till after I posted. Etek's good.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:37 AM #94
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Aviatorman, as far as bottles/tank reg get a 68/4500 with a ninja reg. With ninja regs you can:rebuild/lube yourself-set output pressure yourself. Some guns like a automag rt need to see a high tank reg output pressure like 900 psi. I usually set my tank output pressure about 200/300 psi higher than gun operating pressure of gun it's going on.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:01 PM #95
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Barrels. poppet guns tend to accelerate ball to top speed in 3-4". Spool valve guns a little longer, about 6-9". I prefer barrels about 12/13" long becuse if you get in a tight spot you don't want your barrel sticking out giving your postion away.Any barrel longer than 14" won't work as well. Also if you under bore limit it to about .003 as when the ball gets to the porting you don't want excessive drag as ball is no longer propelled by air. I cut lurker barrels down to about 13" so if I under bore it dosen't effect velocity/consistancy so much. Smaller porting holes seem to be quieter. I have some 12" lapco bigshots .682 (ansgear) but the're loud. A 12" lapco has about 9" of "drive." Sometimes loud works for intimidation.My 17 y.o. son has a highly modified a5 that has a very distinctive/loud sound. I always know it's him when I hear it, kind of like people are gettin mowed down with a real machine gun.When I hear that gun it's always followed by "OUT OUT OUT!"
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:23 PM #96
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Originally Posted by Castro #66 View Post
The paint you shot may have been good quality, but depending on atmospheric conditions, it may have been over brittle. In this case, sometimes an overbore is the way to go, but tighter bores can also help. Sometimes, there's no saving it! Having options helps!
Sigh... why do I have to like such an expensive pastime? The last time around, I was a highschool kid getting paid primarily in free paint, air, and field fees, plus a little under the table cash. Now that I'm an adult with a "real" job I feel like I'm going to end up with more toys than I know what to do with and more money flushed down the proverbial toilet of toys than would probably be prudent. On top of a barrel / barrel kit and bolt, I need a power hopper, an upgraded tank from the 48/3000 I got just to get myself shooting, a new podpack and pods (they gave me 4 x 140's but they are too long so I need to get some 100's even though I know already I'll want the 140's with a bigger pack eventually), a new mask that has a thermal lens, and probably a real gear bag so I'm not just throwing $1000 worth of equipment into a cardboard box.

That all being said, my research has me leaning towards overbore more than underbore due to the apparent inconsistency of the paint available to me. Supposedly, the paint I shot last time I went out was good stuff, but had been poorly taken care of. This was the description of one field manager of another field's paint, who's paint in turn was described as "not all that great", so after washing away the competitive sell, I think that what happened last time might be a good benchmark. I'm guessing I can expect decent paint that may or may not have been taken care of properly. This means overbore to keep from compression breaking the brittle balls. I see the logic of having the options, and I'll probably end up with some no matter how hard I try to resist it, but at least one voice I'm starting to trust (the ****** guy) swears up and down by the .693 barrel of the Etek because it is big enough to handle the balls as they swell with heat and moisture. That being said, he lives in Florida and I live in Colorado, so conditions are just a little bit different. I'm thinking I just need to throw my caliper into my gear box for a while and start measuring the exact diameter of the balls I'm shooting as the day goes on. If they stay relatively small, I'll look into a smaller barrel, if not, then maybe a better .693, or maybe just a better kit.

One thing the ****** guy stressed is that accuracy in paintball is much more associated with a clean gun / barrel than anything else. This tells me I need at least one new squeegee (I've only got one right now) and I need to keep a good eye on the condition of my barrel's polish. All of that, and I'll have to start really cleaning my gun after each use rather than throwing it into a box and forgetting about it like I used to do with my Tippmann.

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Thanks soulo6. I didn't realize he bought a etek till after I posted. Etek's good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by van457 View Post
Aviatorman, as far as bottles/tank reg get a 68/4500 with a ninja reg. With ninja regs you can:rebuild/lube yourself-set output pressure yourself. Some guns like a automag rt need to see a high tank reg output pressure like 900 psi. I usually set my tank output pressure about 200/300 psi higher than gun operating pressure of gun it's going on.
That is my ultimate goal, though I do like the smaller size of the 50/4500 a little better. Either way though, I think new is definitely the way to go for a tank, so it will mean a little saving. According to the guy who sold me my gun, you can only hydro a tank twice, so if I save $75 now at a cost of 3-5 years less use, I'm not really saving all that much because I'd have to buy a new(er) one sooner anyway. It just makes more sense to save a few extra dollars and buy a new one so it lasts longer.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:32 PM #97
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Originally Posted by van457 View Post
Barrels. poppet guns tend to accelerate ball to top speed in 3-4". Spool valve guns a little longer, about 6-9". I prefer barrels about 12/13" long becuse if you get in a tight spot you don't want your barrel sticking out giving your postion away.Any barrel longer than 14" won't work as well. Also if you under bore limit it to about .003 as when the ball gets to the porting you don't want excessive drag as ball is no longer propelled by air. I cut lurker barrels down to about 13" so if I under bore it dosen't effect velocity/consistancy so much. Smaller porting holes seem to be quieter. I have some 12" lapco bigshots .682 (ansgear) but the're loud. A 12" lapco has about 9" of "drive." Sometimes loud works for intimidation.My 17 y.o. son has a highly modified a5 that has a very distinctive/loud sound. I always know it's him when I hear it, kind of like people are gettin mowed down with a real machine gun.When I hear that gun it's always followed by "OUT OUT OUT!"
Still not sure how concerned I am with noise at this point. On the other hand, research is showing me that I will want between 6"-9" of drive for the balls before they start to worry about drag. As I said in my previous post, based on what I know about local field paint, I'm probably going to overbore and if I shrink down from the stock .693, its going to be because I've measured the balls repeatedly and I can still overbore with a smaller bore.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:46 PM #98
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Not sure of how many times you can hydro a carbon fiber tank, most of them are 5 year hydros though but not all, check em out.I also live in fl. so at the start of the day if you just open a sealed bag and do a blow through test on barrel size as heat rises and balls get exposed to humidity than I guess you would be under boring anyway as the day goes on.Barrel swabs, I like the redz barrel swabs. You can get a folding one for the field and a straight one for bench /table where you got your gear/paint.I take the straight redz swab with a gallon jug mixed with hand dishwashing soap and water and just leave the gallon with swab in bottle on table.It's there if you need it. The redz swabs work better with the small bores of today as some of the other brands are so tight in a barrel i've pulled the one half off on the field with the other half stuck in barrel. Big problem on the field.I have different back packs but I like the redz one's, I'd have to look to see if they still sell the one I have.I carry no more than 4 pods on the field,Rec ball ya know?

Last edited by van457 : 12-04-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:03 PM #99
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The quieter barrel you get the better.If people don't know you're shootin at them then big advantage.I feel 1 piece barrels are quieter.Find out local paint average sizes.rkenders on pbn lives in colo. if thats where you're at. Check with him.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:06 PM #100
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I carry no more than 4 pods on the field,Rec ball ya know?
I think this is the key to remember here. I'm not competitive and don't plan on it, so at best I'll play 2-3 times a month... maybe more, but still nothing like a tourney player. With that all in mind, splurging on a great barrel kit, a really nice gun, or a ton of extra gear just doesn't make a lot of sense. Hell, I think I've probably bought more gun than I really need (I doubt I'll even WANT to use 15bps because its such a waste of paint when all is said and done), but at least it will stay near mid-range for a long time. If it turns out that my stock barrel is going to be good enough, I'll probably stick with it. And if the 48/3000 tank lasts me long enough to not make refilling a constant headache, I'll probably stick with it, and if the Proto Primo I bought works well enough for my play style, then I'll probably stick with it. Of course, all of that might change and I may end up trying to wring every last drop out of my gun, but in the end, I'm still a recreational paintballer and if I'm not out there trying to be the king of the field every weekend rain or shine, spending a ton of extra money to get another 15%-20% more performance out of my gun doesn't make sense. After all, I'm already upgrading from a 15-17 year old, near entry level, Tippmann Carbine to an Etek 4 which is going to be an absolutely ridiculous upgrade in performance, consistency, and accuracy without spending an extra penny on upgrades for the new gun.

Last edited by AviatorMan : 12-04-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:12 PM #101
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I agree. The best thing to do but most overlooked thing is to buy good paint. If you had a $1100 ego but paid $40 for a case of cheap paint, thats kind of silly ya know.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:31 PM #102
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If the stock barrel is too big, the best money spent will be a smaller good barrel, more kills on the field.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:10 PM #103
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Yeah, I believe the new setup is going to keep you very happy for a good long while. Especially if you keep in mind where you came from. Maybe 6 or 8 months from now, with a bunch of play under your belt, maybe *then* something will be nagging you about your setup and you can look at dealing with that....but that's a whole different decision process, since who knows what it is that's going to bug you.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:27 PM #104
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If the stock barrel is too big, the best money spent will be a smaller good barrel, more kills on the field.
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Yeah, I believe the new setup is going to keep you very happy for a good long while. Especially if you keep in mind where you came from. Maybe 6 or 8 months from now, with a bunch of play under your belt, maybe *then* something will be nagging you about your setup and you can look at dealing with that....but that's a whole different decision process, since who knows what it is that's going to bug you.
I already kinda have a problem with the stock barrel. I went out and got a nice fluffy pipe cleaner today and gave the stock barrel a good brushing, but it was enough to notice that there are a few blemishes already in there. They aren't much, but everything I've read so far says that one of the biggest killers of accuracy is blemishes in the barrel which catch the ball and cause it to start spinning off in some random direction. I'm guessing that this is a result of the barrel just being a stock barrel not produced by one of the big names in barrels, so I'm thinking that a new one, even if its just a single barrel, is still going to be up there on my list, though I'll still have to see how accurate it is as is, since it may work just fine.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:12 PM #105
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Take the barrel to the kitchen sink and use hot water and hand dish soap,It may be just discoloration.I wouldn't imagine p.e. would put a crap barrel(quality control) on their markers although it may be a huge bore for the paint you may run into.

Last edited by van457 : 12-04-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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