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Old 12-03-2012, 04:04 PM #1
prodigaL_son
 
 
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Angel Guns - Worth it?

Im getting back into paintball after only briefly being involved with it in the past. Long story short, a bunch of my buddies told me they were interested in a team, so I bought all the stuff, they flaked out, I sold my crap. However, im ready to play again and am interested only in playing speedball. I will have a team that will compete in regional events and will need a gun that can handle it.

I love the Angel Paintball stuff... I love the looks of it and the history of the company. It is sad that they faded and eventually disappeared, but I think their guns would still be good? Do you guys agree?

I don't mind if a gun is finicky as long as it works well once I get it humming. I dont mind a gun with a bit of character, in fact, I prefer it. However, I don't want a lemon that I am going to have to adjust in the field and although I don't mind hunting for parts, I don't want to have to dig too deep.

Im not a HUGE fan of Dye... no reason, just not. I had an Etek in the past that was a bit bulky but I liked it.

Is an Angel gun worth it for less than $1000 new?
Which are the better Angel gun models (A1 Fly, A4, etc)?
Any suggestions on which upgrades or mods to make to it?
Am I an idiot for getting into an Angel gun at this stage of the game?

Thanks in advance for all the help. I know i'm probably being stubborn, but the angel guns are just cool!

Off Topic: What are the lightest Tanks and Hoppers out there these days?
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:45 PM #2
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For one, i dont know what you mean by buying an Angel for less than 1000 new, as they are no longer made.

I dont think you are and idiot, persay, but i do think you shouldnt be just looking at Angels. Maybe after you get your main gun and get into the sport and start to have a "gun-whore" mentality or a fetish towards Angels, then sure. But for right now, you want to get into the sport again. So with that, i would suggest buying a gun that any all parts are readily available for average prices.

Angel parts are beginning to become less and less readily available, and the rarer parts are becoming inflated in terms of pricing.

Furthermore, if you thought an Etek was bulky... then i dont know why you'd want an angel.


Lightest tanks - All pretty much generally the same weight.. obviously size of the tank makes a difference. So a stubby or peanut tank will be the lightest... but any Ninja/Guerilla air/crossfire tank will be just fine... Most common size is a 68/4500

As for hoppers... A light high-end hopper would be a prophecy Z2... it weighs slightly less than a Rotor.


From what i've read, it seems bulkiness and weight makes somewhat a deal to you... so again, i ask, why Angel?

Angel made some fantastic guns, but its been years since they've been in the game, so obviously, there are guns that have surpassed them.

Look at Macdev's like the DX or VX, Ego's in the 7-10 area, Geo+ or Geo2/2.1, Empire Axe/Mini, Bob Long Victory/ or G6r. Not sure what you've got against Dye, but they make great spoolies and they go for good prices used on the BST.

Its hard to tell you what you want as you've only given me the idea that you like Angels.

What specifically do you like about them other than the history and looks? What is your price range? Do you prefer efficiency or shot quality and low sound? Would you like a little of both?

With answers to those questions, i'd be able to direct you into a marker.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:54 PM #3
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There are a few A1 fly's out there on Ebay an such that are listed as new. Well, I just love the look of the A1 fly I suppose! Maybe that is important? And, I guess I just don't like the futuristic design of the Dyes? I don't really know, I just dont like them.

I am a fan of the Ego and Geo. I feel that the Ego may be larger than the geo? I am 5'7 145lbs, I dont really feel like carrying a larger gun than I have to unless it is my best option. Obviously the Luxe 2.0 looks great, but I dont need to spend $1200 on a gun. I'd like to keep it under $1k so I can get the dye rotor, the guerilla tank etc...

I am a fan of Axe and Mini, but in the past I heard that mini was a real trouble marker. I dont mind things with a little character, but if the mini's can't be used in big tournaments and i'm willing to spend the money on a tournament marker, why buy it, unless it IS in fact good enough. Is the Axe still a small, sleak gun with high level performance? Does it stack up to the Egos and Dyes, the MacDevs and the Luxe?

I appreciate the help and the honesty, im not easily offended so speak your mind please, it can only help me make up mine!
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:00 PM #4
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I've been looking at these Bob Long guns, are they any good? Any recommended models?
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:12 PM #5
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Well, if you have a budget of 1k, then i'd most definitely suggest a G6R... Probably the lightest marker on the current market. One of, if not, THE most efficient marker on the current market. And yet, has less kick, and less sound than an Ego.

The 2012's have an OLED board and a newly updated Cam ASA, which is very nice.

I recently got my G6R a week or two ago, and until i got out and shot it, i really didnt know what to expect and although i was sure it was a decent gun, i never realized how nice it really was.

That being said, you could also save yourself some cash and spend it elsewhere by looking at older Ego's or a Geo+. The Ego dimensions are not really all that bigger than a Geo. The ego may sit very little higher, but it also has part of the back block taken off.(The Ego8 and Geo weigh the same give or take a couple grams)

Again, that all being said above...
I have a Mini V3 with a Empire Relay on/off ASA, and i would have absolutely NO worries about taking that into a tourny over my other High-ends. I actually just chrono'd and teched my Ego 10/ Ego8's and my Mini in my basement last night... I used reballs. The Ego's actually had trouble with the reballs, where the Mini had no issues whatsoever. Obviously this is not a real-world in game scenario, but it just goes to show many types of issues can arise to any gun. Its typically all circumstantial and End-user error.

Judging by your height and weight, you might REALLY like the Mini's ergonomics. Its small, light, and tight feeling, which i dont really mind. But others do, and thats where the axe comes in. Gives you a little more reach on the foregrip and less tight of a feel.


My best suggestion for you would be to go to your local PB store and see what guns they carry. If they dont have certain ones, at least come back on here and report what guns you've held and what did or didnt feel right about them and maybe we can better direct you into a gun with better ergonomics for you.


Dont forget to check out the Macdev's like the Droid/ Dx/VX. Luxe 1.0's would be in your price range as well. You have a TON of options with a 1K budget... but you really need to figure out what matters most to you in terms of a gun.

Always remember
Poppet's = Efficient, Ease of maint., louder shot, more kick
Inline Poppet = Typically the happy middle
Spool = Soft on paint, smooth shot with less kick, less efficient, more O-rings to maintain

Current Lineup of guns on the market by type and MSRP
-Poppets

Low End

Spyder Fenix - $150
Azodin Blitz - $170
Azodin Zenith - $250

Mid End

Dangerous Power FX - $499
Planet Eclipse Etek4 LT - $500
Alien Invasion - $599
Planet Eclipse Etek4 AM - $600

High End

Alien Invasion - $599
Vanguard Creed - $799
Bob Long G6R - $999
Planet Eclipse Ego11 - $1095

-Inline Poppets

Low End

Invert Mini - $325
Planet Eclipse Etha - $395 (Price makes this a debatable Mid End marker)

Mid End

Empire Axe - $460
Empire Axe Pro - $680 (functionally is the same as the Axe, just with the redline grip and OLED)

High End

Bob Long Marq Victory V2 - $1250
Bob Long Ripper Victory - $1500 (functionally same as the V2 Victory, but with different milling, a barrel kit, and gear bag.)

-Spools

Low End

Dangerous Power E1 - $190
GOG eNVy - $200
GOG eXTCy - $250
Proto Rail - $250
Dangerous Power G4 - $299
Tippman X7 Phenom - $299
Mokal Aura - $310
Valken Proton - $330

Mid End

Tippman Crossover - $429
Proto Reflex Rail - $500
MacDev Drone DX - $550
Hostile Rogue+ - $695 (I think this probably should be high end, but it's really not high on price or compared to the others in that category)

High End

Hostile Rogue+ - $695
Dangerous Power Rev-i - $850
DYE NT11 - $1000
Zodiac ZR1 - $1000
Vanguard Demon - $1050
DYE DM's - $1300
Planet Eclipse GEO3 - $1350
MacDev Clone GT - $1400
DLX Luxe 2.0 - $1500
Machine Vapor - $1650
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Last edited by peacob : 12-03-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:26 PM #6
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TBH, I really always liked the mini's i was just turned away from them in the past by rumor. That was when they were Invert Mini, now they are Empire/Invert and maybe that has made the difference.

I am curious as to the performance difference between the Axe and the Mini. I know I would actually prefer the ergonomics of a smaller gun. Ive held it in my hand before and really liked it, but I can afford the Axe and if it is a better overall marker, then I would rather choose quality over ergonomics.

Style wise I really like the G5 but I definitely would rather just spend the money on a tournament level marker. I don't plan on upgrading my marker every 6-months and get pretty content with my choice once I make it. If the G6R is in a league above the Axe, Mini, G5, A1 Fly, Ego, Geo, etc... it only makes sense... would you say this is so?

Also, I see a few different versions of the G6... which one do you recommend for my tastes?
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:42 PM #7
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On topic of the Mini:

The gripes with the Mini is the fact that it doesnt come with an on/off ASA, and its a TAD bit less efficient (some say a lot, most say barely, i'm going to assume those that say a lot are bias opinions. Regardless, if you're playing speedball, it wouldnt matter as you have all day air anyway). Two other small things that are more of an opinionated issue is the size, and that the Axe uses a microswitch trigger where the Mini uses a magnetic return trigger.

Aside from those things, the Mini is just as good and i feel there is no "quality" differences between the two. You can easily find a Mini with an upgraded ASA for a great price in the BST forum.

As for the G6R :

Its tough to tell you what to do... If you have the money and would rather get a high-end gun.... Go for it. It is a nicer gun all around than the Mini (other than the size).

Again tho, in terms of it being in a league above the Ego/Geo... i wouldnt say that. When comparing other high-ends, it becomes a decision of personal opinion and what you want out of your marker. Some people swear by Planet Eclipse and would rather have an Ego. And the vice-versa. The battle of the high-ends is always the toughest to win, and thats why i feel its the hardest thing for anyone on these forums to give advice to other members in regards with what they should buy.

As for the different types of g6r's
Theres the 2011 - Everything on the gun is great
2012 updates: OLED Tadao board, Cam ASA
Dragon G6rs - Different milling, typically come with pressure testers when bought new
G6r Z Premium - Diff milling, different trigger, comes with premium bolt and pressure tester (when bought new)


-2 things:
If you're looking for a well priced, reliable marker that is tournament ready and you've held and it fits you well, Mini all day.

If you've got the money to buy a high-end and want all the perks that come with it, Get the g6r and dont look back. BUT please try and hold one first and make sure the ergo is what you'd want. (I have yet to find someone that doesnt care for the ergo though)
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Last edited by peacob : 12-03-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:48 PM #8
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How would you compare the Luxe 1.0 to the G6R to the Axe? I think im rounding it down here!
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:01 PM #9
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Some people aren't a fan of Luxe Ergo's, but again, we are talking about high-ends, so its hard to tell you what is better than the other. I personally would stick with a G6R... Its arguably the best marker out currently for its price, and they would be very similar with shot quality.

2011G6R vs 1.0 Luxe: G6R hands down
2011G6R vs 1.5 Luxe: Still G6R
2011G6R vs 2.0 Luxe: Luxe
2012G6R vs 2.0 Luxe: Tough decision

Quietest/smoothest shot currently: Clone GT
Most efficient currently : G6R (some will argue a Vic)
Best all around Gun currently: G6R hands down

Axe, is still a great gun for the money... Just think of it like a Mini for bigger hands.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:03 PM #10
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I think the G6R seems to be the way to go! Thanks man!
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:12 PM #11
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Just keep in mind, a g6r requires a low pressure regulated tank. Thats not to say once you buy a tank, you can never use it on another gun. There a lot of guns that will run fine on low pressure, and in most cases its easier on the O-rings and seals. But just something to keep in mind so you dont buy a HP tank.

Also, if you buy a Tank with a Ninja reg, you can easily change the reg into low pressure by removing some of the shims on the shimstack inside the reg.
Myth regs need a different spring that you have to buy (typically 5-10$)
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:39 PM #12
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Nice. Thank you for the info!
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:28 AM #13
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I would just go with the g6r if your willing to spend the extra dough.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:05 PM #14
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2012 G6R all day... Luxe = problems all day
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:27 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david42 View Post
Luxe = problems all day
lolwut.

Either you absolutely suck at maintaining your marker, or you are making a brash assumption based on one persons opinion of their luxe. Do you realize how many people own Luxe's and absolutely love them? Saying a "Luxe = problems all day", is one of the worst generalizations i've heard in a long while.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:40 PM #16
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Quote:
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As for hoppers... A light high-end hopper would be a prophecy Z2... it weighs slightly less than rotor
Uh the z2 is a bunch lighter than the rotor, I can compare my spire is alot lighter than my rotor, and the z2 is 2 oz lighter than the spire.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:46 PM #17
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Quote:
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Uh the z2 is a bunch lighter than the rotor, I can compare my spire is alot lighter than my rotor, and the z2 is 2 oz lighter than the spire.
Are you really going to nit-pick wording here? I said its lighter... thats all that matters.

And since you like everything to be perfect, its not 2oz, its 1.7.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:25 AM #18
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The A1 Fly was an amazing gun. I wouldn't buy one new though, simply because it will cost you way too much when you can get a used one for next to nothing. Even the last Angel produced, the SB goes for less than $600ish used.

Honestly though, for the money, I would spend $500-$600 on a used 2k11 G6R or find someone desperate with a 2k12 used.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:30 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash Money Allstar
The A1 Fly was an amazing gun. I wouldn't buy one new though, simply because it will cost you way too much when you can get a used one for next to nothing. Even the last Angel produced, the SB goes for less than $600ish used.

Honestly though, for the money, I would spend $500-$600 on a used 2k11 G6R or find someone desperate with a 2k12 used.
My last Sb- a ironman special edition Heros color - bought for 300- local. Sold a few weeks ago for 500-. Great gun, but too much for me to justify shooting rec ball with.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:16 AM #20
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I am going to jump on the G6R bandwagon here and say my G6r was about as smooth as my clone, almost as quiet as my clone and was much more efficient. I think the clone is the best spool on the market and I just have a preference for it over the G6R, but the G6R is a better value. (My G6R did have a LP poppet and a 0 ping ram.)
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:47 AM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
I am going to jump on the G6R bandwagon here and say my G6r was about as smooth as my clone, almost as quiet as my clone and was much more efficient. I think the clone is the best spool on the market and I just have a preference for it over the G6R, but the G6R is a better value. (My G6R did have a LP poppet and a 0 ping ram.)
Couldnt agree more.

Its amazing how many people are dumbfounded and willing to argue with me when i say the G6R is smoother than their Luxe, Demon, Geo, ect. Those that have shot a G6R know, those that havnt, are missing out.
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