[DriverJ]

Originally Posted by eforce

Ramping dramatically cuts down on ROF/mode rule violations. If you use capped ramping, it doesn't matter if you're using full auto - you're still shooting the same ROF as everyone else. As a referee, I don't need to be checking ROF over the chrono all the time. All I have to do is listen for a gun that sounds faster than the rest. Good luck doing that on an NPPL field.

As a side note, the NPPL represents the old school style of playing. Semi auto, no coaching, 7-man, etc. In case you haven't noticed, that league has already died once and the players have spoken. That format is dead. It's bad for television and outclassed by xball. Trying to force it on a league that succeeds (PSP) is not good for the industry. There were more teams playing 5-man at PSP World Cup than there were in all divisions combined at the first NPPL event this season.

huge dot.

Originally Posted by hscpaintballa

IMO ramping should be kept at the tournament level. It is easier to regulate, and u can't set ur gun up in a way that will really give u an edge... The place where ramping shouldn't be allowed is against rec ballers. Having new people come out to play paintball and get shot 4 or 5 times in one point does not make them want to come back... If people played walkons in semi that would eliminate 2-3 of those balls out of that stream. It really pisses me off to see people playing woodsball on uncapped ramping! New players especially kids get really intimidated to hear guns going at 15-20 bps when their tippmann shoots 5-6.

I agree with the stipulation that if the group is fine playing with ramping it can be done, but in strictly open play, I think it's best to stick to semi auto and even to cap our guns lower.

Just my .02

[Japy]

i vote bring back nxl mode also, just use a mechanical gun for open play, leave the electros setup for tourneys and go old school cool for open play and work on your gun fighting against mr. g.i. joe shooting an uncapped tippmann.

[pbragesauce198]

Originally Posted by .:CreightonLaw:.

Proposition:
Ramping is a detriment to tournament play because it allows a player to maintain BPS while reloading and adjust there bunker position. The detriment is hampered movement and a slower game. The benefit of allowing ramping, to even the playing field from trigger bounce mod-cheating, does not outweigh the detriment of a slow and boring play style.

Solution:
Ban ramping. Monitor via RFID as BPS is for the NPPL.

My Take:
This is a real solution to the slow game play and the great fear of cheating and unfair competition once ramping is banned. IMO the speed of the game has slowed down significantly since the early 2k's and I think a great way to bring the speed back would be to removing the crutch of ramping. If you can clock 12 bps for five minutes straight without, good for you, have at it. The reality is that it is damn near impossible especially when a back player has to reload or adjust their angles. As for the RFID, I think the conspiracy theorists have toned down there rhetoric regarding having their shots monitored.

Well, let me know what you think.

Totally agree man. If players could no longer lay down streams while they were reloading, it would allow for breaks in lanes and i think it would result in a lot more movement on the field. Yea people will argue that the nppl proved that semi is dead but 7 men makes the game very different. I don't think semi has been given a fair chance in tourney yet. Even if the pros don't adopt it, I think getting rid of ramping in lower-level tourneys and in public fields would really breathe new life into the sport.

[eforce]

Originally Posted by pbragesauce198

Totally agree man. If players could no longer lay down streams while they were reloading, it would allow for breaks in lanes and i think it would result in a lot more movement on the field. Yea people will argue that the nppl proved that semi is dead but 7 men makes the game very different. I don't think semi has been given a fair chance in tourney yet. Even if the pros don't adopt it, I think getting rid of ramping in lower-level tourneys and in public fields would really breathe new life into the sport.

I was playing the PSP format through the various ROF rules, from 15.4bps to 13.3bps to 10.5bps to 12.5bps. I can tell you that when the rate of fire was limited to 10.5bps, effectively simulating semi auto (if not a lower rate of fire), the flow of the game sucked. 12.5bps ramping represents a balance between firepower, movement, and cost. If you're fast, you can probably get through a lane. If you're good at laning, you can probably get a kill off the break. If you're paying the bills, it isn't as bad as the astronomical paint bills from the days of 15bps and it isn't as bad as paying for the longer points of 10.5bps because nobody got laned and everybody shot their whole packs in 5 alive games.

For what it's worth, semi auto was the definition of tournament paintball until the early 2000's when ramping and force fed hoppers came out. It was given a more than fair chance in tournament paintball. I completely agree that ramping should not be allowed in rec play or entry level tournaments. However, it should be permitted at the national level and especially in higher divisions. It's no different than racing with increased power as you ascend the ranks, or hockey with more physical contact as you leave the beginner divisions.

[SNAKESNIPER (Banned)]

Originally Posted by JohnSherman

I would love for you to tell me how fast and movement-oriented the NPPL is. Seriously, I'll wait.

PWNED.

Originally Posted by liquidfiretibby

if you dont like ramping, play woodsball. i dont see ramping being taken out of speedball anytime, ever. if you cant cut it, or dont wanna get shot, dont play

[2pipes]

Originally Posted by TeamAlice

In New Zealand, we can't have any firearms that can use some sort of automatic firing mode ie ramping and full auto.

So all our tournaments at my local field are all semi auto

Personally being brand new too speedball I like it that way as I'm not going be hiding behind my bunker all game with one guy firing a case of paint at me with the help of ramping, if he wants to try that he'll have to have the trigger and reloading skills to keep the lane on me.

What markers do they use? Most if not all have those capabilities?

[Team_ILLNatured]

Originally Posted by JohnSherman

I would love for you to tell me how fast and movement-oriented the NPPL is. Seriously, I'll wait.

^this is absolute ****ing gold.

Originally Posted by turnburglar

Can someone chime in with the rof rules from real xball back in the day? Was it 15bps or unlimited? Checking out those old vids on YouTube, those guns where blazing people down.


Those points where also much faster than average for now.

Originally XBall was 15.4 BPS. There is still atleast 1 league in the US still running legit xball: The USPA website. In the upper division in 2011 there were as many as 30 points scored in 40min of play (if you do the math, it comes out to about 1:20 per point) so that there is proof that higher ROF makes for faster points.
In the Novice Division of USPA last year there were as many as 20pts scored in 30min of play(at 12.5bps)
we may or may not have had better layouts though as well...

[Icon0clast]

Originally Posted by TeamAlice

In New Zealand, we can't have any firearms that can use some sort of automatic firing mode ie ramping and full auto.

So all our tournaments at my local field are all semi auto

Personally being brand new too speedball I like it that way as I'm not going be hiding behind my bunker all game with one guy firing a case of paint at me with the help of ramping, if he wants to try that he'll have to have the trigger and reloading skills to keep the lane on me.

In every other country in the world paintball markers/guns are not considered firearms because they do not produce a combustion to propel an object.

[dominantgazelle]

I feel like the games still go by pretty quickly but then again I wasn't around for them 10 years ago. However, I agree that ramping should be taken out because sure paintball involves skill, but having a good trigger doesn't seem to be a matter anymore. Taking ramping out of the situation would bring that back.

[eforce]

Originally Posted by dominantgazelle

I feel like the games still go by pretty quickly but then again I wasn't around for them 10 years ago. However, I agree that ramping should be taken out because sure paintball involves skill, but having a good trigger doesn't seem to be a matter anymore. Taking ramping out of the situation would bring that back.

All that would do is bring back the board cheats... bounce, high activation ramp, all that good stuff. Trigger speed is irrelevant in a discussion of fundamental skills.

[Box]

Originally Posted by eforce

All that would do is bring back the board cheats... bounce, high activation ramp, all that good stuff. Trigger speed is irrelevant in a discussion of fundamental skills.

Didn't the NPPL have to use a trigger checking machine to find added shots? The gun techs would always find a way, somehow, to make the gun do just a little bit more for the player when ROF rules were semi-auto+uncapped.

Ramping is here, and it'll stay, the way we ramp may change. Kind of a compromise to the OP's suggestion would be a wider adoption of the Millennium ramp over PSP ramp. Instead of the PSP 5-BPS ramps to 15/12.5/ROF Cap in 3 shot bursts with a 1 second restart window, use Millenniums 7.5-BPS ramps to 15/12.5/ROF Cap no burst or restart window. There would be slightly more work in achieving/sustaining max ROF, but cheater guns still wouldn't make much of a difference.

eforce's statement that trigger speed is irrelevant in a discussion of fundamental skills is pretty accurate. We could bring back old school 15.4 BPS NXL (1-shot then full auto) and teams would adapt. Even though we have stepped away from semi-auto, it doesn't mean that the players are any less skilled.

[LionheartPB]

As a rookie, it's much simpler and straightforward as it all depends on the objective the tournament was set to meet. If the objective is to bring shooting skills out, then ramping should be banned. If the objective is to encourage competition and make it fun to participate and watch, then full auto would defo help !

[JohnSherman]

Originally Posted by LionheartPB

As a rookie, it's much simpler and straightforward as it all depends on the objective the tournament was set to meet. If the objective is to bring shooting skills out, then ramping should be banned. If the objective is to encourage competition and make it fun to participate and watch, then full auto would defo help !

Ramping and full auto are two different things, and few people advocate the use of full auto in tournament play.

[ShotS]

Last time I checked, PSP is a much, much, much faster game than NPPL. and saying banning ramping will help to get rid of cheating is the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my whole entire life!

Also, saying tournament paintball is dying is also pretty stupid. Check out how many teams entered in the past 2012 PSP World Cup, which HAS ramping, then get back to me on that.

If I read this wrong, my bad, but that's just what I took out of it.

[TeamAlice]

Originally Posted by 2pipes

What markers do they use? Most if not all have those capabilities?

We still run your normal Ego's, Geo's, DM's, Bob Longs etc just with modified boards so that they can only fire semi. You'd be surprised how many other countries have funny paintball marker laws. I believe Australia is the same.

Tho it was announced last week that the laws are changing in NZ to allow ramping and auto modes on markers. Yay progress!