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Old 11-29-2012, 09:27 PM #43
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If you are willing to buy used, I agree on the Etek3. They are great markers and very reliable/easy to maintain. Autococker threaded so upgraded barrels are easy to come by although the stock barrel is great. You should also look into the Axe or the Etha. Again this is only if you're willing to buy used.

You are taking the right approach and trying multiple markers before making a decision. ALOT of what you will get from asking around are biased personal opinions. Whoever told you to avoid poppit markers is a good example of this. Good luck with your search.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:28 PM #44
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:48 PM #45
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Originally Posted by BuiltforBoost View Post
If you are willing to buy used, I agree on the Etek3. They are great markers and very reliable/easy to maintain. Autococker threaded so upgraded barrels are easy to come by although the stock barrel is great. You should also look into the Axe or the Etha. Again this is only if you're willing to buy used.

You are taking the right approach and trying multiple markers before making a decision. ALOT of what you will get from asking around are biased personal opinions. Whoever told you to avoid poppit markers is a good example of this. Good luck with your search.
I was told today that Planet Eclipse only supports their guns for three years after the release of a new generation, so, since the Etek 4 is out, even if I bought one today, I'd get 3 years of support before suddenly parts started to become hard to find. In addition, I was told that most people who are selling the Etek 3's are the types that have put many times the number of balls through them than the average player, meaning the guns are aged at a much higher rate. Unless both of these are outright lies, I'm pretty sure I'd be hesitant to buy into what seems like trouble if the gun is high-mileage AND parts will suddenly become harder to find fairly soon.

I think this also applies to the SP-1. Since the company is out of business, I doubt I'm going to take a risk that I'm going to get into trouble down the road a couple of years when / if I break something big and I'm SOL for finding new parts just like I am for the Carbine.

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Used axe ur set
I actually finally had a chance to hold an Axe today and I don't think I like it very much. I have smaller hands and the grip was excessively large for me and the 15 degree angle just wasn't comfortable, especially compared to the 45 degree angle of the Rail I was comparing it to side-by-side. Not sure just how important this is, but I'm pretty sure grip comfort might be an issue after a long day at the field.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:22 AM #46
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I think this also applies to the SP-1. Since the company is out of business, I doubt I'm going to take a risk that I'm going to get into trouble down the road a couple of years when / if I break something big and I'm SOL for finding new parts just like I am for the Carbine.

Smart Parts is GoG is Smart Parts is GoG. The two markers are COMPLETELY interchangeable. To the point that there is a body kit for the Sp1 that updates it with the little cosmetic upgrades of the G1. If your Sp1 breaks, GoG fixes it like a G1....
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:58 AM #47
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Quote:
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I was told today that Planet Eclipse only supports their guns for three years after the release of a new generation, so, since the Etek 4 is out, even if I bought one today, I'd get 3 years of support before suddenly parts started to become hard to find. In addition, I was told that most people who are selling the Etek 3's are the types that have put many times the number of balls through them than the average player, meaning the guns are aged at a much higher rate. Unless both of these are outright lies, I'm pretty sure I'd be hesitant to buy into what seems like trouble if the gun is high-mileage AND parts will suddenly become harder to find fairly soon.
That's true. But you shouldn't have any issues finding parts after their "support" time frame is up. I use an EGO8 and have no issue finding replacement parts, not that I've needed any. There's really not much that can break on a Etek3 anyways. O-rings, cupseal, solenoid, board. All of which are easily found and replaced. the solenoid will be the only part if any that eventually becomes hard to find. So if this is a concern, buy one and have it as a back-up before they do become scarce. Chances are you'll never need it anyways.

As for a hopper. Check out the invert halo too. I had one and loved it. Can't really beat them for the price IMO.

Breach wear is the only real wear that would occur from heavy use(besides cosmetic), and that doesn't affect performance at all. My 08 ego has over 200k shots through it, has zero wear, and I haven't had to replace anything but a ram o-ring once, grips, and a single detent. As long as you perform basic marker maintenance somewhat regularly any mid to high-end marker should last you a lifetime.

Personally I would choose a used Ego7, Etek3, Etha, Axe, Shocker, DM6-8, PM reflex, ect. over a cheaper new marker anyday. We're all just trying to help guide you, but ultimately the decision is yours.

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Old 11-30-2012, 11:03 AM #48
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The Trilogy can be a fantastic gun for a tinkerer. It has an enormous valve and many parts are directly cocker-compatible. I've built a few myself. If you're looking for something that just works, a Trilogy can easily fit the bill.

I will say that I feel like you're over-concerned with breakable parts. O-rings are a different story, of course.

I must reiterate that there's a very good chance that you'll do all the research you're comfortable with, buy a gun, and soon find something you'll want to try or shoot instead. The industry is so full of variety at this point, it would be boring to plan NOT to be interested in something else!
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:45 PM #49
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I'm sorry but this reminds me of the old saying, "beggers can't be choosers." You want too much from such a small budget. All the things that you are looking for can be found in mid/high end guns. The reason why the guns you are looking at are in the price range you can afford is because they are missing some of the luxuries the others provide.

If you expect something to have a lifetime warranty or to be indestructible for 4-5 years you are out of luck, especially while self admitting you are hard on markers. Unless you get an old tippman again.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:43 PM #50
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That's true. But you shouldn't have any issues finding parts after their "support" time frame is up. I use an EGO8 and have no issue finding replacement parts, not that I've needed any. There's really not much that can break on a Etek3 anyways. O-rings, cupseal, solenoid, board. All of which are easily found and replaced. the solenoid will be the only part if any that eventually becomes hard to find. So if this is a concern, buy one and have it as a back-up before they do become scarce. Chances are you'll never need it anyways.

As for a hopper. Check out the invert halo too. I had one and loved it. Can't really beat them for the price IMO.

Breach wear is the only real wear that would occur from heavy use(besides cosmetic), and that doesn't affect performance at all. My 08 ego has over 200k shots through it, has zero wear, and I haven't had to replace anything but a ram o-ring once, grips, and a single detent. As long as you perform basic marker maintenance somewhat regularly any mid to high-end marker should last you a lifetime.

Personally I would choose a used Ego7, Etek3, Etha, Axe, Shocker, DM6-8, PM reflex, ect. over a cheaper new marker anyday. We're all just trying to help guide you, but ultimately the decision is yours.
I had a long talk with a competitive player today and a couple of other pro-shop hangouts and have come to three conclusions. First, I'm not touching a used gun unless it's a resale from a store. This is mostly because I tried to get a local private seller to meet me at a shop here in town to have them have a look at his gun and he refused, so suddenly the idea that private sellers would not have anything to hide is evaporating. It's also an expansion on what the pro-shop yesterday told me about a lot of extra wear and tear on these types of guns used, even if it is hard to wear out these guns, I saw a couple today that looked like they had been sandblasted after only a couple of years of use.

Second, I want a 100% new-tech gun or at the very least a most recent generation gun. I was told that a lot of the less expensive guns are basically the higher end guns from a few years ago, in this case a Reflex Rail12-13 was basically the DM6 that was being pushed on me a few days ago. With that in mind, I want a new new-tech gun so that 5-6 years from now its still equivalent to a lot that is coming out new on the field. I know that future differences are going to be few if any, but they will be there, and staying power is a concern of mine.

Finally, and this is rolling back one of my main buying points, but I feel it's going to save me in the end, I'm upping my price cap to $500. This is a firm cap (not including tank and taxes) and it will come with a couple of stipulations for performance and included items, but this price I think puts me into a range where a lot more options open up, most notably its a price where I can start looking at poppet guns as well as spool valve. Now, with the increase in price, I won't have the ability to upgrade the gun for a while, so it must be come out of the box with a very good barrel that I won't want or need to upgrade for at least a year or two, a good regulator that I may never need to upgrade, and preferably an LPR (see, I've been doing my homework ) since this price point seems to be where they begin to be included in the guns. I will say that I don't love the idea of spending that much more money, but after a lot of homework, it seems like the upgraded items you get with most of this price of marker are usually ones you end up buying anyway at a 15%-30% increase in price, so buying a $250-$300 gun and then upgrading the barrel, regulator, feed neck, and possibly even board, would end up costing more than just buying a $500 gun and leaving it stock. This all being said, it will mean that I will have to buy the most dirt cheap steel HPA can that I can find and will be stuck using my dirty old gravity feed hopper for at least a couple of months, but these can be upgraded on the relative cheap compared to the gun itself, so I envision myself having a proper setup within a few months.

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The Trilogy can be a fantastic gun for a tinkerer. It has an enormous valve and many parts are directly cocker-compatible. I've built a few myself. If you're looking for something that just works, a Trilogy can easily fit the bill.

I will say that I feel like you're over-concerned with breakable parts. O-rings are a different story, of course.

I must reiterate that there's a very good chance that you'll do all the research you're comfortable with, buy a gun, and soon find something you'll want to try or shoot instead. The industry is so full of variety at this point, it would be boring to plan NOT to be interested in something else!
I have been doing a lot of research and probably taking a much more technical approach that a lot of players (I have an engineering background), which is why I'm spending more time looking at the internal mechanisms and construction of the guns than what they look like and how they feel. This is one of the big reasons I'm upping my price cap: After finding http://www.zdspb.com and getting a look at the internals of spool valve versus poppet valve guns, I'm leaning toward the latter for a number of reasons. First, the constant reversal of pressure on the bolt in spool valve guns is just asking for shear stress on very thin, and relatively fragile pieces of metal whereas the primary stress point in a poppet valve gun is the dowel connecting the bolt to the ram, which can be made much more robust and is likely to be much cheaper to replace should it fail. Another major complaint I have with spool valve guns is the abundance of O-rings needed to keep all of the parts separated, sealed, and buffered (between 10 and 20 depending on the gun) which, in many cases, is somewhere between double and quadruple the number that you'd find in a poppet gun. As you mentioned, O-rings are a different story from metal and plastic parts because while these can wear out and break with use, O-rings also age and reach a point where they have lost their elasticity and become brittle. Sure this doesn't happen quickly, but use and environmental conditions play a big part in this, so you end up having to baby the O-rings a little to get them to behave consistently and not experience accelerated wear when playing in different temperature and/or humidity conditions. I'm not saying that spool valve guns are bad, and I may buy one, but from where I'm sitting right now, they seem like they require more upkeep than poppets as a trade off for the fact that they are easier to work on thanks to their single tube design.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:50 PM #51
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I'm sorry but this reminds me of the old saying, "beggers can't be choosers." You want too much from such a small budget. All the things that you are looking for can be found in mid/high end guns. The reason why the guns you are looking at are in the price range you can afford is because they are missing some of the luxuries the others provide.

If you expect something to have a lifetime warranty or to be indestructible for 4-5 years you are out of luck, especially while self admitting you are hard on markers. Unless you get an old tippman again.
For one, see my post above, but in all of my research, the pro-shop people have always said that even though a lot of what I'm looking for would cost more, the $200-$300 guns like the Envy or Rail are plenty good and would probably last me quite a while. It may be the case that I'm being overly cautious, but I'm trying to get the most long-term bang for my short term buck here and that means analyzing every last little detail of each gun to see where they are going to fail, how much life I can get from the parts, how it feels, and which features come with each gun out of the box. The overarching desire I have is that I buy a gun now that will last me and that I will be happy with for a long time so that I won't have to fork over $300-$600 more in a couple of years for a new gun, or over the next few years in the form of upgrades.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:13 PM #52
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One question that's come up recently is why has no one mentioned Dangerous Power as an option to any of this? They seem to have a decent selection of guns in both price ranges now, but no one has so much as mentioned any of them in passing. Are they low quality, crappy guns?
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:56 PM #53
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Under your new price range, put me down for recommending the Etek 4 LT. I have been very impressed with the reliability and *ease* of maintenance for my Planet Eclipse gear. I think you'd be getting a marker that would last you a *very* long time.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:33 PM #54
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Dangerous Power makes some decent guns, but their quality control in the short time they've been around could be questionable. They also aren't a big name, so people just don't consider them the same as others.

I do feel like I should point out that there are plenty of engineers in the paintball industry that design these guns with years of experience. MacDev is a great example, as they manufacture parts for NASA.

I'm starting to wonder if you're over-thinking this whole thing... the "feel" of a paintball gun is what will make it shoot better for you than anything else. If you've got half the common sense you seem to, you should be able to maintain just about anything you end up with, without a tech's assistance.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:43 PM #55
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Etek 4 is extremely nice. I've had a chance to shoot it and I think that you would like it a lot.

If you can get a used Axe that would be nice too. Super awesome gun and shoots incredibly well.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:10 PM #56
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I actually went with an Etek 4. I like the less complicated mechanism of the poppet valve, the fact that it comes with an LPR, and the overall feel of the gun. It's also one of the few where the regulator is spaced far enough from the trigger guard that I can comfortably fit my thumb between the two to grip the regulator. I may have to get it re-anodized because I really wanted a yellow gun, but the color selection available even through ordering was pretty limited, but the black might grow on me while I figure that out.

Thanks to all who helped me arrive at this point with your advice and opinions and I look forward to seeing you out on the field if any of you are here in Denver.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:57 PM #57
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I actually went with an Etek 4. I like the less complicated mechanism of the poppet valve, the fact that it comes with an LPR, and the overall feel of the gun. It's also one of the few where the regulator is spaced far enough from the trigger guard that I can comfortably fit my thumb between the two to grip the regulator. I may have to get it re-anodized because I really wanted a yellow gun, but the color selection available even through ordering was pretty limited, but the black might grow on me while I figure that out.

Thanks to all who helped me arrive at this point with your advice and opinions and I look forward to seeing you out on the field if any of you are here in Denver.
Good call I would recommended the Etek 4 with the higher cap. I got a Etek 3 because I found one cheap that had not been used much but I had the cash I would have gotten a Etek 4. I wouldnt worry about parts, most of the stuff you got extra with your marker and the big items like boards are going to be easy to find for years if you look around. Most hard to find parts are not hard to find if you know how to use the internet and you seem like you do.

Welcome to the Etek family btw
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:44 AM #58
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I have bought 4 markers, all used from private sellers. I have saved hundreds of dollars and have had zero issues. Make sure they put air on it and dry fire it before you buy it and you will be fine. These guns are not that complex, with a basic understanding you can troubleshoot any problems. I met a guy selling a Timmy (high end marker) for $150 and when I had him put the tank on it it leaked all over, didn't buy it, too good to be true. Just be diligent and you will grt a good marker at a great price. BTW my mini has been great, no issues with about 10 cases of paint through it
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:35 AM #59
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Get an ego7... It is light, has the modes u would need to play just about anything. Reliable.. No orings to worry about really. Accurate and plenty of upgrades are available if u want

I only read the first page so if you already purchased congratulations.

Your budget is 300 and if your trying get everything you need to play on that money then hands down reliability/NEW/decently accurate, high rate of fire def goes to the smart parts ion. They have more parts floating around and after market accessories then you could dream of. My step dad has had his 5 -6 years now and is still shooting like charm with minimal maintenance. I strongly suggest this gun.

I havent played in years but my last gun was an ego 7. Best gun I have ever played with, super accurate, very fast, light and sounded awesome. Even used this gun is over your budget without tank, hopper and kit of replacement parts you will need to operate this gun. Like stated before tho if you can step it up to a 450 - 500 budget buy one of these used find you a decent tank and hopper and you will be in love.

My budget was 350 for my re-entrance into paintball - my first day on the field will be tomorrow. I bough a used mini with all the virtue upgrades, trigger, bolt, and new detents, Dye rotar, UL 14" Barren, Smart parts All american barrel, color kit and grips for 425. I ordered a ninja 50/4500 tank and Im ready to play. I shot the gun for the first time thursday and it seems to be a great setup. From what I understand the Virtue board has a lifetime warranty on it and I plan to send it in after this sunday just for the simple fact it cycles itself off every once in a while. It hasn't under aggressive fire, but mostly in training modes or firing without air. The guy at the shop said put a new battery in and it should be fine.

Either way with markers waying heavy on the electric side you will need to make a decision of mechanical vs electrical. I bought a few a-5's in 2002 took them out ONE time and sold them the next week. Damn thing was all over the place. There are people that love them but my experience was horrific. I used a smart parts ion the rest of that day and like stated before fell in love with the gun and the ease of using an electric marker.

Save yourself time, Money and hassle search Smart parts ion kit or package and your set. Some people have trouble buy the " nissan sentra " or " toyota corolla " of guns(the ion) just because of name and what it is, but fact of the matter is they go forever!!!!

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Old 12-01-2012, 11:45 AM #60
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LOL made it to the last page updates, 500 opens the flood gates without adding a tank into the price... find yourself and ego 7
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:45 PM #61
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One major negative side effect of spending all of my money on a good gun: Now I can only afford to look at it and read the manual until I get paid this coming week
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:29 PM #62
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One major negative side effect of spending all of my money on a good gun: Now I can only afford to look at it and read the manual until I get paid this coming week
That is horrible.... I feel your pain man.

I bought my marker right as I rolled into working weekends.....

It was 3 weeks before I got to use it on anything other than a tree and some milk jugs tied to trees......
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:31 PM #63
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That is horrible.... I feel your pain man.

I bought my marker right as I rolled into working weekends.....

It was 3 weeks before I got to use it on anything other than a tree and some milk jugs tied to trees......
I live in an apartment in the city so I can't even dry fire it without disturbing the neighbors
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