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Old 11-16-2012, 06:47 PM #673
DrobertsPB
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Well its time for me to pick my college, would you guys suggest going into dealer specific programs, or CC or UNOH is next to me and its supposed to have an awesome automotive program but it is a private school and i'd have to live on campus.

Price isn't really an issue with schooling so I won't have to worry about mass student debt when i'm out.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:50 AM #674
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all you guys get off my nuts.


if you're not in the first post and you should be, post up again cause i missed it. i've been neglecting this subforum because.. well for the most part it sucks.


if your in the first post and your **** has changed, post up and i'll edit. certifications, employer, box, whatever.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:46 PM #675
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Anyone ever do the BMW STEP program? Worth it?

I know Lucidus is a bmw tech
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:29 AM #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrobertsPB View Post
Anyone ever do the BMW STEP program? Worth it?

I know Lucidus is a bmw tech
It's a guaranteed job with BMW somewhere when you are done, but that's about it. The program is pretty laid back now in comparison to 10 years ago. The stories you have probably heard about the program being crazy hard aren't really reality anymore, which is sad. The caliber of kids coming fresh out of STEP is actually not great minus one kid here or there who is actually going to progress on to be a great tech. Most come out full blown retards with too much confidence and not enough actual experience.

If you can do it and come out realizing that you have a lot of information, but lack the actual skills it takes to be a BMW tech, and you want to actually learn the rest of the "in the field stuff" and don't think you know it all, it's a good program.

The program itself trains in the same location that the rest of us do. A lot of times the instructors teaching STEP are guys who are newer and not as knowledgable. They keep the real talented instructors to usually teach us who are already experienced. That's one of my biggest gripes with STEP.

You would training in one of the most advanced environments money can buy. If you do it, you will be blown away when you see the set up they have at school. Now would be a good time to go, because BMW is rolling out new "F" car training for all the new models, and you would be getting trained on some really complex new systems that a lot of experienced guys haven't trained for yet.

The training itself is supposed to be exactly what the rest of us get, except you would be getting it all at one time, week after week, month after month. I wouldn't be able to do that much training at once, even though it is heavily hands on. You would come out with all required training for BMW Master, and would just need to put in 5 years to attain it, only doing new requirement classes along the way. That's a nice thing if you work for a stingy dealer who is too cheap to send you to school or if you work for a center that wants to hold your training back so they don't have to pay you more. Both are very common.

Which brings me to my next point, the contract. Understand very well that you are contracted to work at the center of your choosing upon graduation. You can't walk from the dealership, you can't change centers, you can't do anything without breaking that contract and being held to paying for the training out of pocket.

It may not seem like a huge deal at this present point in time, because you probably haven't seen what this field is like, and you figure you can ride it out, but let me give you, and anyone else reading some insight into the dealership and private automobile field; everyone is completely out for themselves. Everyone is a scam artist, liar, thief, and completely self interested. Everyone. The only way that anyone in a management at a car dealership got there is by being a scumbag. They don't care about anyone (especially techs), they only care about their pay check, and in almost all circumstances their pay checks are dependent on yours. In other words, theirs goes up if they find a way to save money off of yours. They want flat rate techs turning hours, but if they beat you here and there on an hour or two, that's more profit for them, and a larger pay check. That is how dealerships are. Nickel and dime every single thing you do, and the guy who always loses in the end is the guys making the least amount of money (techs, low level salesmen, and writers).

My point on that matter is that you are contracted to that specific dealership, and while it may seem like an easy thing to ride out a bad situation if needed, it's not always that easy. Some days you are going to want nothing more then to choke your boss or dispatcher for literally stealing from you. And if people find out you are STEP and can't leave, you will be taken advantage of most likely.

All in all, the program is an efficient way to do all the training, learn a **** ton, and get your foot well into the door, but it comes with down sides that require long hard thought.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:56 AM #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
It's a guaranteed job with BMW somewhere when you are done, but that's about it. The program is pretty laid back now in comparison to 10 years ago. The stories you have probably heard about the program being crazy hard aren't really reality anymore, which is sad. The caliber of kids coming fresh out of STEP is actually not great minus one kid here or there who is actually going to progress on to be a great tech. Most come out full blown retards with too much confidence and not enough actual experience.
This is true pretty much of any college/manufacture specific training program. Although i feel like you get maybe a %15 return of decent techs from specific programs i feel like college(UTI/Wyotech/etc.) yeild maybe %5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
If you can do it and come out realizing that you have a lot of information, but lack the actual skills it takes to be a BMW tech, and you want to actually learn the rest of the "in the field stuff" and don't think you know it all, it's a good program.

The program itself trains in the same location that the rest of us do. A lot of times the instructors teaching STEP are guys who are newer and not as knowledgable. They keep the real talented instructors to usually teach us who are already experienced. That's one of my biggest gripes with STEP.

You would training in one of the most advanced environments money can buy. If you do it, you will be blown away when you see the set up they have at school. Now would be a good time to go, because BMW is rolling out new "F" car training for all the new models, and you would be getting trained on some really complex new systems that a lot of experienced guys haven't trained for yet.

The training itself is supposed to be exactly what the rest of us get, except you would be getting it all at one time, week after week, month after month. I wouldn't be able to do that much training at once, even though it is heavily hands on. You would come out with all required training for BMW Master, and would just need to put in 5 years to attain it, only doing new requirement classes along the way. That's a nice thing if you work for a stingy dealer who is too cheap to send you to school or if you work for a center that wants to hold your training back so they don't have to pay you more. Both are very common.

Which brings me to my next point, the contract. Understand very well that you are contracted to work at the center of your choosing upon graduation. You can't walk from the dealership, you can't change centers, you can't do anything without breaking that contract and being held to paying for the training out of pocket.

It may not seem like a huge deal at this present point in time, because you probably haven't seen what this field is like, and you figure you can ride it out, but let me give you, and anyone else reading some insight into the dealership and private automobile field; everyone is completely out for themselves. Everyone is a scam artist, liar, thief, and completely self interested. Everyone. The only way that anyone in a management at a car dealership got there is by being a scumbag. They don't care about anyone (especially techs), they only care about their pay check, and in almost all circumstances their pay checks are dependent on yours. In other words, theirs goes up if they find a way to save money off of yours. They want flat rate techs turning hours, but if they beat you here and there on an hour or two, that's more profit for them, and a larger pay check. That is how dealerships are. Nickel and dime every single thing you do, and the guy who always loses in the end is the guys making the least amount of money (techs, low level salesmen, and writers).

My point on that matter is that you are contracted to that specific dealership, and while it may seem like an easy thing to ride out a bad situation if needed, it's not always that easy. Some days you are going to want nothing more then to choke your boss or dispatcher for literally stealing from you. And if people find out you are STEP and can't leave, you will be taken advantage of most likely.

All in all, the program is an efficient way to do all the training, learn a **** ton, and get your foot well into the door, but it comes with down sides that require long hard thought.
This isn't just BMW this is most everywhere. There are some very rare exceptions. My shop is one, but thats why i work here. I could have swore you were talking about some of the previous locations i have worked at(ford dealers)
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:57 AM #678
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Matco or Snap-on swivel impact sockets?
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:06 AM #679
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Matco simply because they dont have a cross pin to break. but they still wear out just as fast as the other ones break. Breaking< wearing out.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:38 AM #680
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Ay thought on their new ADV sockets?
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:11 PM #681
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they look like plain impact sockets. I perfer snapon impact sockets over anything else. The only real game changer in my opinion has beed the snapon flank drive. nothing else does that job as well as they do. With that said using the correct size wrench/ socket, or flat out the correct tool goes alot further than and specail type of "face"
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:40 PM #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
It's a guaranteed job with BMW somewhere when you are done, but that's about it. The program is pretty laid back now in comparison to 10 years ago. The stories you have probably heard about the program being crazy hard aren't really reality anymore, which is sad. The caliber of kids coming fresh out of STEP is actually not great minus one kid here or there who is actually going to progress on to be a great tech. Most come out full blown retards with too much confidence and not enough actual experience.

If you can do it and come out realizing that you have a lot of information, but lack the actual skills it takes to be a BMW tech, and you want to actually learn the rest of the "in the field stuff" and don't think you know it all, it's a good program.

The program itself trains in the same location that the rest of us do. A lot of times the instructors teaching STEP are guys who are newer and not as knowledgable. They keep the real talented instructors to usually teach us who are already experienced. That's one of my biggest gripes with STEP.

You would training in one of the most advanced environments money can buy. If you do it, you will be blown away when you see the set up they have at school. Now would be a good time to go, because BMW is rolling out new "F" car training for all the new models, and you would be getting trained on some really complex new systems that a lot of experienced guys haven't trained for yet.

The training itself is supposed to be exactly what the rest of us get, except you would be getting it all at one time, week after week, month after month. I wouldn't be able to do that much training at once, even though it is heavily hands on. You would come out with all required training for BMW Master, and would just need to put in 5 years to attain it, only doing new requirement classes along the way. That's a nice thing if you work for a stingy dealer who is too cheap to send you to school or if you work for a center that wants to hold your training back so they don't have to pay you more. Both are very common.

Which brings me to my next point, the contract. Understand very well that you are contracted to work at the center of your choosing upon graduation. You can't walk from the dealership, you can't change centers, you can't do anything without breaking that contract and being held to paying for the training out of pocket.

It may not seem like a huge deal at this present point in time, because you probably haven't seen what this field is like, and you figure you can ride it out, but let me give you, and anyone else reading some insight into the dealership and private automobile field; everyone is completely out for themselves. Everyone is a scam artist, liar, thief, and completely self interested. Everyone. The only way that anyone in a management at a car dealership got there is by being a scumbag. They don't care about anyone (especially techs), they only care about their pay check, and in almost all circumstances their pay checks are dependent on yours. In other words, theirs goes up if they find a way to save money off of yours. They want flat rate techs turning hours, but if they beat you here and there on an hour or two, that's more profit for them, and a larger pay check. That is how dealerships are. Nickel and dime every single thing you do, and the guy who always loses in the end is the guys making the least amount of money (techs, low level salesmen, and writers).

My point on that matter is that you are contracted to that specific dealership, and while it may seem like an easy thing to ride out a bad situation if needed, it's not always that easy. Some days you are going to want nothing more then to choke your boss or dispatcher for literally stealing from you. And if people find out you are STEP and can't leave, you will be taken advantage of most likely.

All in all, the program is an efficient way to do all the training, learn a **** ton, and get your foot well into the door, but it comes with down sides that require long hard thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridebmx211 View Post
This is true pretty much of any college/manufacture specific training program. Although i feel like you get maybe a %15 return of decent techs from specific programs i feel like college(UTI/Wyotech/etc.) yeild maybe %5.
This isn't just BMW this is most everywhere. There are some very rare exceptions. My shop is one, but thats why i work here. I could have swore you were talking about some of the previous locations i have worked at(ford dealers)
I appreciate the information gentlemen

I've only done internships at local shops (not dealerships), all I've heard from the dealership guys online is that they all want to quit and tell all the new guys to stay away. Which is pretty discouraging honestly.

I'm trying to get all the hands on experience I can get before going off to college and get a CC degree, possibly give myself a slight edge.

I was reading through the BMW Step program thread on bimmer forums, and it seems like a lot of guys that went through it feel as if it really wasn't worth it, but a lot appreciated the job waiting for them

Did you choose your shop or did that assign it to you? I also read that they can move you to whatever dealership that they want you at. I really don't want to move too far away from home starting out.

I'm not sure I could really commit to that honestly, I was reading up on the MB Elite program and the Audi Academy but it seems like most of them require you to go to UTI, which I also don't want to do. I might just do Honda PACT or something but i'm sure luxury car techs make a little more.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:48 PM #683
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A good tech at an Indy shop will make more than a dealer tech. but A good dealership "A" tech usually makes a Weak"A"/strong "B" tech at an indy. I learned that the hard way. First few years at any dealership will be rough. but once you get the general knowledge down its usually pretty cookie cutter work. Of course you constantly have to learn new tech and you do get rediculously difficult problems occasionally. At an Indy shop those first few years never end. You constantly have to learn new tech, FROM ALL manufactures!!!! You still get cookie cutter work but it takes alot more to get to that point unless you specailize on one type of car.

Personally I love the challenge. Having to constantly learn the latest and greatest from all around the world is rewarding(not financially though).

In other news my shop owner just bought a Wi-tech(chrysler scantool) pretty stoked about that.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:01 PM #684
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Do dealerships also typically have better benefits and job security?
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:21 PM #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
It's a guaranteed job with BMW somewhere when you are done, but that's about it. The program is pretty laid back now in comparison to 10 years ago. The stories you have probably heard about the program being crazy hard aren't really reality anymore, which is sad. The caliber of kids coming fresh out of STEP is actually not great minus one kid here or there who is actually going to progress on to be a great tech. Most come out full blown retards with too much confidence and not enough actual experience.

If you can do it and come out realizing that you have a lot of information, but lack the actual skills it takes to be a BMW tech, and you want to actually learn the rest of the "in the field stuff" and don't think you know it all, it's a good program.

The program itself trains in the same location that the rest of us do. A lot of times the instructors teaching STEP are guys who are newer and not as knowledgable. They keep the real talented instructors to usually teach us who are already experienced. That's one of my biggest gripes with STEP.

You would training in one of the most advanced environments money can buy. If you do it, you will be blown away when you see the set up they have at school. Now would be a good time to go, because BMW is rolling out new "F" car training for all the new models, and you would be getting trained on some really complex new systems that a lot of experienced guys haven't trained for yet.

The training itself is supposed to be exactly what the rest of us get, except you would be getting it all at one time, week after week, month after month. I wouldn't be able to do that much training at once, even though it is heavily hands on. You would come out with all required training for BMW Master, and would just need to put in 5 years to attain it, only doing new requirement classes along the way. That's a nice thing if you work for a stingy dealer who is too cheap to send you to school or if you work for a center that wants to hold your training back so they don't have to pay you more. Both are very common.

Which brings me to my next point, the contract. Understand very well that you are contracted to work at the center of your choosing upon graduation. You can't walk from the dealership, you can't change centers, you can't do anything without breaking that contract and being held to paying for the training out of pocket.

It may not seem like a huge deal at this present point in time, because you probably haven't seen what this field is like, and you figure you can ride it out, but let me give you, and anyone else reading some insight into the dealership and private automobile field; everyone is completely out for themselves. Everyone is a scam artist, liar, thief, and completely self interested. Everyone. The only way that anyone in a management at a car dealership got there is by being a scumbag. They don't care about anyone (especially techs), they only care about their pay check, and in almost all circumstances their pay checks are dependent on yours. In other words, theirs goes up if they find a way to save money off of yours. They want flat rate techs turning hours, but if they beat you here and there on an hour or two, that's more profit for them, and a larger pay check. That is how dealerships are. Nickel and dime every single thing you do, and the guy who always loses in the end is the guys making the least amount of money (techs, low level salesmen, and writers).

My point on that matter is that you are contracted to that specific dealership, and while it may seem like an easy thing to ride out a bad situation if needed, it's not always that easy. Some days you are going to want nothing more then to choke your boss or dispatcher for literally stealing from you. And if people find out you are STEP and can't leave, you will be taken advantage of most likely.

All in all, the program is an efficient way to do all the training, learn a **** ton, and get your foot well into the door, but it comes with down sides that require long hard thought.
again with the nail on the head. knock it off some time so i can have something to add eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by imguessingurgay View Post
Matco or Snap-on swivel impact sockets?
snap on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imguessingurgay View Post
Ay thought on their new ADV sockets?
chinese.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrobertsPB View Post
I appreciate the information gentlemen

I've only done internships at local shops (not dealerships), all I've heard from the dealership guys online is that they all want to quit and tell all the new guys to stay away. Which is pretty discouraging honestly.

I'm trying to get all the hands on experience I can get before going off to college and get a CC degree, possibly give myself a slight edge.

I was reading through the BMW Step program thread on bimmer forums, and it seems like a lot of guys that went through it feel as if it really wasn't worth it, but a lot appreciated the job waiting for them

Did you choose your shop or did that assign it to you? I also read that they can move you to whatever dealership that they want you at. I really don't want to move too far away from home starting out.

I'm not sure I could really commit to that honestly, I was reading up on the MB Elite program and the Audi Academy but it seems like most of them require you to go to UTI, which I also don't want to do. I might just do Honda PACT or something but i'm sure luxury car techs make a little more.
audi acadamy churns out retards. almost all of them, and is 25% or less hands on. i know, they were next door when i did vdub academy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ridebmx211 View Post
A good tech at an Indy shop will make more than a dealer tech. but A good dealership "A" tech usually makes a Weak"A"/strong "B" tech at an indy. I learned that the hard way. First few years at any dealership will be rough. but once you get the general knowledge down its usually pretty cookie cutter work. Of course you constantly have to learn new tech and you do get rediculously difficult problems occasionally. At an Indy shop those first few years never end. You constantly have to learn new tech, FROM ALL manufactures!!!! You still get cookie cutter work but it takes alot more to get to that point unless you specailize on one type of car.

Personally I love the challenge. Having to constantly learn the latest and greatest from all around the world is rewarding(not financially though).
.
don't flatter yourself. indy shops pay more per hour cause they offer far less in benefits and the condition and cleanliness of your work environment, and you get **** on in labor time because alldata and mitchell are ****ing clueless more times than not. A truely good tech is going to be a good tech regardless because it all goes from A to B, just differently. electricity doesn't change between makes, and nuts and bolts are nuts and bolts. all the sensors are contracted out, so waveforms look the same. Also, dealerships get new technology to learn every year, where indy shops tend to stay about 6-10 years back with the exception of a couple of cars that come in sooner. i saw newer, harder **** every day at vdub and nothing newer than '10 since i went indy save a lone grantourismo. sounds more like your trying to justify making the same mistake i did and leaving a clean environment with benefits and constant work (you always can fall back to warranty at a dealer) for more $ per hour and "challenges"

first chance i get i'll go running back to vdub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrobertsPB View Post
Do dealerships also typically have better benefits and job security?
yes.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:28 PM #686
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I will admit that my situation is different than most. My current shop is Much nicer than the ford dealerships that i worked at. This isn't usually the case. y benefits are far greater as well(free insurance, matching retirement savings etc.)

But if i compare some of the other shops that ive walked into i would probibly agree with you.

I will disagree with you on the " a car is a car" line though. European, domestic and asian vehicles all differ significantly in networking and the types of systems they use. Take electronic throttle control for instance. Each one is different and the diagnostics for each(past cleaning) is very different. And yes a scope pattern is a scope pattern but the key is the person that is reading it. Dealerships are better to start off at but typical end up ****ing you in the end. Its def. easier and if all you care about is paycheck thats the way to go.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:22 PM #687
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I will disagree with you on the " a car is a car" line though. European, domestic and asian vehicles all differ significantly in networking and the types of systems they use.
you can disagree all you want, but that doesn't make you correct. i went from nissan to vdub to Vdub, Audi, Jag, Rover, Porsche, Benz, BMW, Mini, Subaru, Toyota and Lexus and neither my tactics or approach has changed. either power, ground and signal or there or they are not. if you have power and ground and no signal, the component is faulty, end of story.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:36 PM #688
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I'm currently employed by a local Audi dealership. So far after 2 years working on cars professionally this is my biggest step into doing actual work. I came from a gas station, to NTB, to Pepboys, then Toyota express service, and now Audi.

The manager hired me as somebody to learn and grow with time because they were tired of hiring Audi Academy grads that were ****ing useless and used a scan tool more often than their own head to rely on diag and common sense. I was placed under the Shop Foreman/Master tech (who is a total ******* btw) to assist me in my transition and pretty much be there for any questions or assistance.

After about a month we hired another kid, much like me, a year younger, came from Nissan cuz they wouldn't make him a tech from just express. The big difference is he is a Grad from WyoTech. When he started they moved me to working with our other Master (who is actually a VW master, not Audi) who I ended up relying on pretty heavily after my first few days of realizing the Foreman is a dick.

Not to be egotistical, but I can honestly tell you that I have better general knowledge, hands on ability, and can grasp concepts much better than the other kid that spent $40k+ on school. Now we're both still learning and growing but my "Mentor" even says I'm more advanced than him, because he is now starting to help him too cuz the Foreman is a dick, lol.

Now, not all school is bad, as I go to CC some nights and take the core Automotive classes. Some of them are a waste of my time and I can teach them, but it still gives me more hands-on experience and it's cheap as hell.

Finally, now that I am an Audi tech, the dealership will be sending me to Audi Academy Fast Track for one week once a month, full expenses paid and 8 hours paid a day. No need to go to Wyo or UTI. Put in your time, pay your dues and gain experience on your own working from the bottom up. A lot of managers will appreciate that and see that on your resume that you arent just some book-jockey that does good on tests. Hell, last week the manager personally handed me an RO to work on an R8, thats the confidence he has in me after only 2 months or so there.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:17 AM #689
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What Audi dealership do you work at?
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:50 AM #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNforcer View Post
I'm currently employed by a local Audi dealership. So far after 2 years working on cars professionally this is my biggest step into doing actual work. I came from a gas station, to NTB, to Pepboys, then Toyota express service, and now Audi.

The manager hired me as somebody to learn and grow with time because they were tired of hiring Audi Academy grads that were ****ing useless and used a scan tool more often than their own head to rely on diag and common sense. I was placed under the Shop Foreman/Master tech (who is a total ******* btw) to assist me in my transition and pretty much be there for any questions or assistance.

After about a month we hired another kid, much like me, a year younger, came from Nissan cuz they wouldn't make him a tech from just express. The big difference is he is a Grad from WyoTech. When he started they moved me to working with our other Master (who is actually a VW master, not Audi) who I ended up relying on pretty heavily after my first few days of realizing the Foreman is a dick.

Not to be egotistical, but I can honestly tell you that I have better general knowledge, hands on ability, and can grasp concepts much better than the other kid that spent $40k+ on school. Now we're both still learning and growing but my "Mentor" even says I'm more advanced than him, because he is now starting to help him too cuz the Foreman is a dick, lol.

Now, not all school is bad, as I go to CC some nights and take the core Automotive classes. Some of them are a waste of my time and I can teach them, but it still gives me more hands-on experience and it's cheap as hell.

Finally, now that I am an Audi tech, the dealership will be sending me to Audi Academy Fast Track for one week once a month, full expenses paid and 8 hours paid a day. No need to go to Wyo or UTI. Put in your time, pay your dues and gain experience on your own working from the bottom up. A lot of managers will appreciate that and see that on your resume that you arent just some book-jockey that does good on tests. Hell, last week the manager personally handed me an RO to work on an R8, thats the confidence he has in me after only 2 months or so there.
sounds like proof of exactly what we said, lol
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:47 AM #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrobertsPB View Post
Do dealerships also typically have better benefits and job security?
Go to community college, get an AA and then reconsider your options. You won't turn wrenches.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:07 PM #692
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Hey, I just used Fel-pro "perma-dry" valve cover gaskets for my old van. Most of what I've heard is you use no additional silicone on the gasket or very little, one guy said rub a bit of chassis grease on it. Well I put nothing on them, just cleaned the surfaces really well. Still leaks.

You guys got any tips on this subject?
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:15 PM #693
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yeah, don't use those **** *** blue gaskets.

all i've really got on the subject of them.

buy some OE or victor reinz gaskets, use a little bit of RTV any time there is a surface irregularity or the gasket goes up or down or around a corner.
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