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Old 11-08-2012, 12:16 AM #1
.:CreightonLaw:.
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Removing Ramp mode?

Proposition:
Ramping is a detriment to tournament play because it allows a player to maintain BPS while reloading and adjust there bunker position. The detriment is hampered movement and a slower game. The benefit of allowing ramping, to even the playing field from trigger bounce mod-cheating, does not outweigh the detriment of a slow and boring play style.

Solution:
Ban ramping. Monitor via RFID as BPS is for the NPPL.

My Take:
This is a real solution to the slow game play and the great fear of cheating and unfair competition once ramping is banned. IMO the speed of the game has slowed down significantly since the early 2k's and I think a great way to bring the speed back would be to removing the crutch of ramping. If you can clock 12 bps for five minutes straight without, good for you, have at it. The reality is that it is damn near impossible especially when a back player has to reload or adjust their angles. As for the RFID, I think the conspiracy theorists have toned down there rhetoric regarding having their shots monitored.

Well, let me know what you think.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:32 AM #2
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I completely agree! Having a fast trigger finger and finger endurance
also are a big factor in tourney play. Ramping makes it so even
someone that hasnt picked up a marker before can shoot as fast as a
pro. I dont even see the point in a double trigger anymore.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:37 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazeofmystery View Post
I dont even see the point in a double trigger anymore.
I know someone who made a single finger geo... Its pretty badass
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:14 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .:CreightonLaw:. View Post
Proposition:
Ramping is a detriment to tournament play because it allows a player to maintain BPS while reloading and adjust there bunker position. The detriment is hampered movement and a slower game. The benefit of allowing ramping, to even the playing field from trigger bounce mod-cheating, does not outweigh the detriment of a slow and boring play style.

Solution:
Ban ramping. Monitor via RFID as BPS is for the NPPL.

My Take:
This is a real solution to the slow game play and the great fear of cheating and unfair competition once ramping is banned. IMO the speed of the game has slowed down significantly since the early 2k's and I think a great way to bring the speed back would be to removing the crutch of ramping. If you can clock 12 bps for five minutes straight without, good for you, have at it. The reality is that it is damn near impossible especially when a back player has to reload or adjust their angles. As for the RFID, I think the conspiracy theorists have toned down there rhetoric regarding having their shots monitored.

Well, let me know what you think.
I would love for you to tell me how fast and movement-oriented the NPPL is. Seriously, I'll wait.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:50 AM #5
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Ramping dramatically cuts down on ROF/mode rule violations. If you use capped ramping, it doesn't matter if you're using full auto - you're still shooting the same ROF as everyone else. As a referee, I don't need to be checking ROF over the chrono all the time. All I have to do is listen for a gun that sounds faster than the rest. Good luck doing that on an NPPL field.

As a side note, the NPPL represents the old school style of playing. Semi auto, no coaching, 7-man, etc. In case you haven't noticed, that league has already died once and the players have spoken. That format is dead. It's bad for television and outclassed by xball. Trying to force it on a league that succeeds (PSP) is not good for the industry. There were more teams playing 5-man at PSP World Cup than there were in all divisions combined at the first NPPL event this season.

Last edited by eforce : 11-09-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:20 PM #6
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Hmm i find that kinda funny u say that.
Did you watch World Cup some of them games in the pro bracket were over 10 minutes long.
IMO it doesn't take as much skill to play psp than it does to play the NPPL.
if you have someone tell you u when to shoot how to shoot and when to move IMO it has taken alot of the thinking out of the game. i do in joy both formats Just my 2cents
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:40 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevota View Post
Hmm i find that kinda funny u say that.
Did you watch World Cup some of them games in the pro bracket were over 10 minutes long.
That's a matter of the layout, not the teams or rate of fire. There have been NPPL layouts that went to time over and over in every division. It's a moot point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevota View Post
IMO it doesn't take as much skill to play psp than it does to play the NPPL.
if you have someone tell you u when to shoot how to shoot and when to move IMO it has taken alot of the thinking out of the game. i do in joy both formats Just my 2cents
It's not so much about a gap in overall skill as it is about the emphasis on different skill sets. On a PSP field, everyone has the same firepower. When it comes to guns it's no longer about how fast you can shoot (NPPL), it's about how well you can use what you're given. That's why you will see PSP players with significantly better gunfighting skills and a quicker game pace.

As for taking a lot of thinking out of the game, I personally believe that coaching does just the opposite. In the NPPL, you can do whatever you want if the other team isn't looking. In the PSP, you need to figure out how to defeat the coach as well as the team. That means craftier run-throughs and the use of distractions to manipulate how the coach adjusts his team. It takes a lot more quick thinking and creativity to succeed on a coached field.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:07 PM #8
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The funny thing... Coaching isn't allowed in the PSP.

Here's what I think, I think that ramping is just fine. It puts all players on the field at the same limit for their gun, meaning that the team that makes it to snake off the break didn't just get lucky because the person on the other end can't walk, it means the person that makes it to snake worked his *** off to beat the lane and can just as easily pop up and lane/get laned at the same pace.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:11 PM #9
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The funny thing... Coaching isn't allowed in the PSP.
Spectator participation is synonymous with coaching for any organized team.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:37 PM #10
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Quote:
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Spectator participation is synonymous with coaching for any organized team.
At large events that are too big to control the crowd maybe, but it's technically not allowed and at almost all smaller PSP events I've been to I've watched spectators be removed when they're coaching.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:42 PM #11
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At large events that are too big to control the crowd maybe, but it's technically not allowed and at almost all smaller PSP events I've been to I've watched spectators be removed when they're coaching.
No, spectator participation is explicitly allowed at all PSP events and Affiliate leagues.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:44 PM #12
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Coaching and counter coaching happen on every field, for every game, at EVERY PSP event. The only place coaching is not permitted in PSP is on the pit side.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:56 PM #13
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Quote:
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At large events that are too big to control the crowd maybe, but it's technically not allowed and at almost all smaller PSP events I've been to I've watched spectators be removed when they're coaching.
You should review the rulebook at pspevents.com - I thought you were arguing semantics and saying that coaching isn't allowed but spectator participation is. Coaching is allowed on the snake side at PSP events.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:37 PM #14
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Quote:
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You should review the rulebook at pspevents.com - I thought you were arguing semantics and saying that coaching isn't allowed but spectator participation is. Coaching is allowed on the snake side at PSP events.
Huh, so wait... Didn't Russian Legion get a major penalty for coaching that cost them the final game at Chicago PSP or am I thinking NPPL? Or was it the fact that their coach was on the field?
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:14 PM #15
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Huh, so wait... Didn't Russian Legion get a major penalty for coaching that cost them the final game at Chicago PSP or am I thinking NPPL? Or was it the fact that their coach was on the field?
It's irrelevant. Snake side coaching is 100% legal in the PSP. If they got a penalty for "coaching" it would be for talking from the pit side or as a player walks off.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:59 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
Ramping dramatically cuts down on ROF/mode rule violations. If you use capped ramping, it doesn't matter if you're using full auto - you're still shooting the same ROF as everyone else.
This, and this was the reason ramping came to exist. Back in the day you had a few teams/ppl who figured out how to make a board that ramped, therefore having a huge advantage to other ppl/teams that didn't have that tech. Simple solution make all boards ramp and set a ROF cap everyone wins.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:50 PM #17
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Can someone chime in with the rof rules from real xball back in the day? Was it 15bps or unlimited? Checking out those old vids on YouTube, those guns where blazing people down.


Those points where also much faster than average for now.


The theory is that game speed is determined by layout and other factors, much less than actual ROF. Personally id like to see the ramp activation point raised to maybe 5-6 bps. The goal would be to cut down over shooting in bunkering, and help a player be more frugal in low paint situations. However if you don't like the slow games, let sup air know, as they are the ones making these slow playing layouts.
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:08 PM #18
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I used to think the same way: semi-auto capped allowed for trigger skills to add to the dept of game-play. However, once you factor in that many people can reach that cap, then there is no advantage. So basically, everyone is already shooting at a high rate of fire.

As for those who cannot, it only encourages that they cheat. Lets say they can only shoot at 13 BPS max. They can set their board to add 1 or 2 BPS when they're shooting over 10 bps. So now they can shoot closer to 15 BPS, and the added shots would be impossible to hear, and your fingers would be going so fast that you couldn't see the increase either. If you're ok with this, then why not just have ramping?

In that case the real issue is 12.5 BPS vs 15 BPS. If you're going to be shot by a gun shooting faster than what someone can pull/control, would you rather be shot by a gun going 12.5 bps or 15 bps? I'd rather be shooting 15 bps, but I'd rather be shot at a slower speed.

Additionally, that slower speed would encourage more movement than 15 anyway, which is what you wanted anyway.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:23 PM #19
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if you dont like ramping, play woodsball. i dont see ramping being taken out of speedball anytime, ever. if you cant cut it, or dont wanna get shot, dont play
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:49 PM #20
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In New Zealand, we can't have any firearms that can use some sort of automatic firing mode ie ramping and full auto.

So all our tournaments at my local field are all semi auto

Personally being brand new too speedball I like it that way as I'm not going be hiding behind my bunker all game with one guy firing a case of paint at me with the help of ramping, if he wants to try that he'll have to have the trigger and reloading skills to keep the lane on me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:12 AM #21
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IMO ramping should be kept at the tournament level. It is easier to regulate, and u can't set ur gun up in a way that will really give u an edge... The place where ramping shouldn't be allowed is against rec ballers. Having new people come out to play paintball and get shot 4 or 5 times in one point does not make them want to come back... If people played walkons in semi that would eliminate 2-3 of those balls out of that stream. It really pisses me off to see people playing woodsball on uncapped ramping! New players especially kids get really intimidated to hear guns going at 15-20 bps when their tippmann shoots 5-6.
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