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Old 11-20-2012, 11:41 AM #22
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
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While I see where you're coming from, what if the difference between someone who identifies as 'right' and libertarian is the source of authority? Instead of authority stemming from the state, they see authority as based in social order. In that sense while you are free to do as you will in the eyes of the state you are not free to do as you will in the eyes of your neighbor.

I think this would maintain the distinction well enough to say that the two dimensions are relatively independent, but requires a sensible discussion of the efficacy of society alone as a tool of maintaining order.
For me, an authority can be either and both. Which would be analogous to the distinction between fascism and monarchy. In most forms of monarchy, the spiritual caste(referencing the code of manu for example) or institution had authority over the monarch. If we are talking about legitimate right wing social orders.

In my understanding, libertarians oppose all forms of authority as it would limit individual liberty/ freedom (depending on your libertarian's view of either term). At least this is the closest consensus I can find coming out of libertarians. What do you think?

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:56 AM #23
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In my understanding, libertarians oppose all forms of authority
Actually those would be anarchists. You'd know the difference if you actually did any research at all. Why would there even be a libertarian presidential candidate if they oppose all forms of authority?
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:01 PM #24
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Actually those would be anarchists. You'd know the difference if you actually did any research at all. Why would there even be a libertarian presidential candidate if they oppose all forms of authority?
You need to read entire sentence. They oppose all forms of authority that would limit individual liberty/freedom. For the libertarian, the only limit on individual liberty is that which might impede on another's liberty, life, or property.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:05 PM #25
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You need to read entire sentence. They oppose all forms of authority that would limit individual liberty/freedom.
That's not what you said. You said "libertarians oppose all forms of authority as it would limit individual liberty/ freedom"

Replacing "as it would" to "that would" changes the entire meaning of the sentence.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:07 PM #26
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That's not what you said. You said "libertarians oppose all forms of authority as it would limit individual liberty/ freedom"

Replacing "as it would" to "that would" changes the entire meaning of the sentence.
Yes I did. Im sorry, I wrote that response in between a few phone calls. Now that we are on the same page, can we move on?
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:08 PM #27
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didnt read entire thread but...martianchurch where are you on the political spectrum?
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:19 PM #28
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didnt read entire thread but...martianchurch where are you on the political spectrum?
Isnt it much more fun to see if you can figure it out?
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:41 PM #29
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mmm

well in this thread you dont seem to make any prescriptions only description

im going to guess and say center left
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:07 AM #30
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mmm

well in this thread you dont seem to make any prescriptions only description

im going to guess and say center left
The point of this thread is to describe what Left and Right is, not to announce to the world what I believe.

Also, no. As I've said in the past, I'm not sure I believe there is any such thing as a center.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:22 AM #31
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This concept seems to difficult for people to grasp...
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:30 AM #32
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This concept seems to difficult for people to grasp...
Which?
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:02 AM #33
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Which?
The purpose of the thread.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:04 AM #34
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:13 AM #35
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The purpose of the thread.
Well it isn't a spoon fed issue that people can argue over like little arms of dear media, the media they all claim doesn't affect them. I didnt expect it to be popular.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:20 PM #36
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The American left doesn't want to admit that they are sisters with what passes for the American right. Overton's window has shifted things to much.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:21 PM #37
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Left: mostly socialist, deviated from what a democrat is supposed to mean
Right: mostly half-assing it, jumbled up conservatism and socialism
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:59 PM #38
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God, do I have to make a mallet that says "social democracy =/= socialism" and beat you all over the ****ing head with it? Despite the bull**** Fox news spews, there is nothing socialistic about the Democratic Party. Period. ****ing read a book
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:41 PM #39
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there is nothing socialistic about the Democratic Party. Period. ****ing read a book
Then why do we have obamacare?
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:50 PM #40
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so·cial·ism (noun) - Obamacare.

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Old 12-05-2012, 12:08 AM #41
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Try flipping those words around
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:08 AM #42
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Then why do we have obamacare?
First explain to me what socialism is. Then explain to me how obamacare is socialist.
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