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Old 11-17-2012, 02:13 PM #148
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OK, I was wrong. I didn't fully flesh out the idea before posting. I was low on caffeine and brain power. I know the correct answer, as I pay my state income taxes quarterly (more of the same math, more often). I don't know where the idea came from.

Dr G, you should know I'm in a constant state of introspection.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:51 PM #149
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IMO what it indicates is a susceptibility to right-wing memetics, but hopefully you figure that out introspectively
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:12 PM #150
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I won't deny that, lol. It took quite a bit of willpower and critical thinking to break free of the Neo-Con machine (Hannity, Levin, etc etc).
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:19 PM #151
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$560 a week in taxes is $29,120 per year. That's $17,776 MORE than the poverty level for a single adult or $6,987 more than poverty level for a family of four. Go ***** about something else, seriously.
Poverty line folks are worthless folks...no one forced them to be poor...they put themselves there.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:22 PM #152
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Who the hell believes that?
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:23 PM #153
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Poverty line folks are worthless folks...no one forced them to be poor...they put themselves there.
If only they tried harder, right? It's not like minimum wage is so low it's easy to work full time and still be in poverty, right?
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:28 PM #154
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If only they tried harder, right? It's not like minimum wage is so low it's easy to work full time and still be in poverty, right?
Some folks are only worth minimum wage...if they are, in order to make more they need to work harder, get more training, or get a second job...no one is going to pay some untrained, inexperienced, lazy person higher than min. wage...I've met lots of inexperienced, dumb folks who make way more than min. wage...why?....because they work their butts off....
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:29 PM #155
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If only they tried harder, right? It's not like minimum wage is so low it's easy to work full time and still be in poverty, right?
Some folks are only worth minimum wage...if they are, in order to make more they need to work harder, get more training, or get a second job...no one is going to pay some untrained, inexperienced, lazy person higher than min. wage...I've met lots of inexperienced, untrained, dumb folks who make way more than min. wage...why?....because they work their butts off....
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:04 AM #156
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Consensus?

So everyone agrees that a progressive income tax rate is our best option, right? And that the flat tax obviously favors the wealthy?
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:30 AM #157
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Yes. The wealthy can bend and find more deductions on flat rate taxes than a middle class can...
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:33 AM #158
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So everyone agrees that a progressive income tax rate is our best option, right? And that the flat tax obviously favors the wealthy?
No, and income tax favors no one.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:47 PM #159
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No, and income tax favors no one.
So what is your argument for this? Did you not like my analogy? Also, have you made any pickles lately?
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:46 PM #160
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No, and income tax favors no one.
The government
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:49 PM #161
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Everyone gets hosed with an income tax, that shouldn't even be a question. Sure someone might not get hosed as much, but they are still getting hosed.

The ideas behind fair tax seem pretty... fair. The potential collect taxes also outweigh anything the progressive income tax brings in. And, the best part, those closer to man's natural state of poverty are effected less with the fair tax.

No income tax? And I only get taxed on what I buy new? And I get a refund at the end of the year based on how much I make in a year vs what I spent in taxes? If I remember right, that is.

Made some pickles 3 weeks ago, spears. White wine vinegar and pickling cucumbers plus spices equals awesomeness. The wide brought some to her office and they loved them. Going to make some batches to take to the field I reff at/play for soon.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:17 PM #162
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Everyone gets hosed with an income tax, that shouldn't even be a question. Sure someone might not get hosed as much, but they are still getting hosed.

The ideas behind fair tax seem pretty... fair. The potential collect taxes also outweigh anything the progressive income tax brings in. And, the best part, those closer to man's natural state of poverty are effected less with the fair tax.

No income tax? And I only get taxed on what I buy new? And I get a refund at the end of the year based on how much I make in a year vs what I spent in taxes? If I remember right, that is.
Hmm I haven't researched that idea enough to comment yet, but it sounds interesting. I don't see such a drastic overhaul of our tax system occurring anytime soon though.

So if we are to continue to have income taxes, as is likely, would you support a progressive rate over a flat tax rate at least?
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Made some pickles 3 weeks ago, spears. White wine vinegar and pickling cucumbers plus spices equals awesomeness. The wide brought some to her office and they loved them. Going to make some batches to take to the field I reff at/play for soon.
Nice. I need to try making some more here soon. And I'll assume you meant "the wife" and not "the wide" there, but I guess I can't be 100% sure
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:17 PM #163
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Value is a subjective term, in the way you are using it. Some people choose occupations to better society, and not having the profit motive as their highest reason for doing the work. They sacrifice pursuing a career path with higher pay, in order to fill a societal role they feel is important. These people, imo, should be commended, and able to do so without being taxed the same as someone who makes a **** ton of money. So in short, why should someone who makes less be taxed less? Because they cannot afford it, if they are to fill their societal role. For example, teachers and social workers for the most part make **** pay. If we make it practically impossible to earn a comfortable living working these jobs, then nobody will take them. And there is a very big difference between a comfortable living, and a luxurious one.
Value does have some subjective component to it, to be sure. In this context, it also includes market factors such as supply and demand. There is a reason a good running back in the NFL makes more than a young cardiologist. Sad, but true.

By the same token, your assessment of what is fair is at least as subjective. Your whole metric is based on who can best shoulder the burden. There are other metrics of fairness, and you have not justified why your metric is superior to the others.

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IMO what it indicates is a susceptibility to right-wing memetics, but hopefully you figure that out introspectively
No left wing bias here.

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So everyone agrees that a progressive income tax rate is our best option, right? And that the flat tax obviously favors the wealthy?
The Fair Tax has features that make it effectively progressive.

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Old 11-18-2012, 05:41 PM #164
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Hmm I haven't researched that idea enough to comment yet, but it sounds interesting. I don't see such a drastic overhaul of our tax system occurring anytime soon though.

So if we are to continue to have income taxes, as is likely, would you support a progressive rate over a flat tax rate at least?


Nice. I need to try making some more here soon. And I'll assume you meant "the wife" and not "the wide" there, but I guess I can't be 100% sure
Yes, auto correct has been getting me a lot lately. Lol.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:54 PM #165
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Value does have some subjective component to it, to be sure. In this context, it also includes market factors such as supply and demand. There is a reason a good running back in the NFL makes more than a young cardiologist. Sad, but true.

By the same token, your assessment of what is fair is at least as subjective. Your whole metric is based on who can best shoulder the burden. There are other metrics of fairness, and you have not justified why your metric is superior to the others.
You're right, fairness is a subjective term. However, some things are certainly more fair than others, and I believe we are an intelligent enough society to figure out what works best. We just need to have the discussion. I explained why I feel equal burden is the optimum metric to use. Do you have an idea for another metric to use, to decide how our income taxes should be designed to work? Do you disagree that equal burden is a fair metric to strive for? What does fair (Relative to income taxes) mean to you?

Quote:
The Fair Tax has features that make it effectively progressive.
Again, I don't know enough currently about the fair tax idea, so I won't comment on it at this time. But since we do have income taxes right now, and that is unlikely to change any time soon, how do you think the income tax rates should be set up? To me, it seems that there are pretty much 4 essential choices.
1)A progressive latter with higher rates for those with higher incomes.
2)A regressive latter with higher rates for those with lower incomes.
3)A Flat tax rate across the board.
4)Other random tax rates.

If we are to have income taxes, I don't see how anything other than progressive rates can make sense.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:43 PM #166
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The fairtax has a small amount of progressivity at the very low end. It does not progress at all at the high end (which is the obvious point).
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:50 PM #167
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Define "progress".
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:24 PM #168
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Define "progress".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax
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