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Old 11-13-2012, 03:37 PM #22
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Originally Posted by Snake13 View Post
Because like it or not "normal people" going bankrupt/losing their homes may hurt the economy, but the chain reaction of our nation's financial institutions imploding not only totally ****ing tanks it, but starts a credit freeze which destroy's its ability to regrow itself.
The money goes to the banks anyway, the difference is taking some debt off the consumer gets their personal finances moving again and that grows the economy in a far more sustainable way from the bottom up.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:57 PM #23
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The money goes to the banks anyway, the difference is taking some debt off the consumer gets their personal finances moving again and that grows the economy in a far more sustainable way from the bottom up.
I never paid attention directly to what happened to the consumer debt linked to the bailout because I assumed it was written off as part of the agreement with the financial entities that received the money. Did their receipt of the federal funds not require them to forgive the debts?

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Old 11-14-2012, 05:21 PM #24
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Absolutely not! Republicans and lenders fought tooth and nail against debt forgiveness and principal writedowns. That's a huge part of the problem.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:24 PM #25
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Absolutely not! Republicans and lenders fought tooth and nail against debt forgiveness and principal writedowns. That's a huge part of the problem.
I will look into this. Thanks.

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Old 11-14-2012, 06:28 PM #26
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I will look into this. Thanks.

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It is actually part of the Republican party platform.

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Taxpayer dollars should not be used to bail out borrowers and lenders by funding principal write-downs.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:56 PM #27
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good example of the republican base, and not guys like Romney, being the biggest problem with party. Both of Romney's advisors favored aggressively tackling the housing market.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:59 PM #28
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This sounds all fine and dandy but it only works if people learn from their mistakes and figure out how to live within their means once the debt is forgiven otherwise they will just accumulate it again.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:01 PM #29
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benji, economics is not a morality play. sure theres some moral hazard involved, but i'd wager we're better off in the aggregate.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:10 PM #30
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benji, economics is not a morality play. sure theres some moral hazard involved, but i'd wager we're better off in the aggregate.
How do you think we got in to such outrageous debt in the first place? With almost $800 billion in credit card debt not to mention people "buying" houses when they couldn't afford them it may not be morals in play but lack of common sense.

People need to learn to live within their means otherwise we could bail them out every time and they will repeat their mistakes.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:13 PM #31
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the crisis had nothing to do with debt, but with tight monetary policy. the housing market crashed 2 years before the economy crashed.

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Old 11-14-2012, 09:20 PM #32
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Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
the crisis had nothing to do with debt, but with tight monetary policy. the housing market crashed 2 years before the economy crashed.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4IiKxNj8I[/VIDE]
I am not blaming the economy on personal debt. I don't think I said anything about the economy. I am saying sure, lets bail 100% of people out of their debt right now. Erase it all for free. I bet if you give it 5-10 years we are up to $800 billion in credit card debt and people in houses they still can't afford because people think the "deserve" a house because they live in America and can't live within their means.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:21 PM #33
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so why should we punish people who were victims of tight monetary policy?
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:33 PM #34
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so why should we punish people who were victims of tight monetary policy?
I don't care what type of monetary policy is out there it doesn't change what I can afford (in the short term). If I make $30k a year I can't afford a house payment, a car payment, 2 kids, student loans and $200 per month for awesome cable TV and a credit card bill. If it is tighter monetary policy for an extended period of time and I foresee my job being lost, well I start to shore up expenses and add to my rainy day fund. No more going to movies, eating out less, fewer vacations etc.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:48 PM #35
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I am not blaming the economy on personal debt. I don't think I said anything about the economy. I am saying sure, lets bail 100% of people out of their debt right now. Erase it all for free. I bet if you give it 5-10 years we are up to $800 billion in credit card debt and people in houses they still can't afford because people think the "deserve" a house because they live in America and can't live within their means.
Only if lending standards collapse again, which they won't.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:56 PM #36
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Only if lending standards collapse again, which they won't.
If there is more money to go around they will. Someone will look to earn more return so they will take more risks. Slowly but surely.

And just because someone will lend you the money does not mean you should take it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:05 PM #37
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If there is more money to go around they will. Someone will look to earn more return so they will take more risks. Slowly but surely.
Not in 5-10 years, even in the complete absence of additional regulation. We're already 5 years after the banks got bailed out and lending is still extremely tight.

Outright lending fraud was rampant leading up to the crisis; that's not going to happen again anytime soon. TARP and the stimulus were one-time programs and the "backstop" (GSEs) is gone. Liars' loans, interest-only or adjustable ARMs, etc. returning will be huge news and won't be overlooked.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:37 PM #38
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Originally Posted by drgonzo

Not in 5-10 years, even in the complete absence of additional regulation. We're already 5 years after the banks got bailed out and lending is still extremely tight.

Outright lending fraud was rampant leading up to the crisis; that's not going to happen again anytime soon. TARP and the stimulus were one-time programs and the "backstop" (GSEs) is gone. Liars' loans, interest-only or adjustable ARMs, etc. returning will be huge news and won't be overlooked.
Ok let's take that out of the equation then. We still have somewhere about $800 billion in credit card debt which if we simply just erase people may not learn from their mistakes.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:40 PM #39
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why are you talking about credit card debt? we're talking about housing finance.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:10 PM #40
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if we simply just erase people may not learn from their mistakes.
I love when an economic argument fails people so they turn it into a moral issue.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:40 PM #41
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OWS has taken a lot of hits from all around but any honest person anywhere along the political spectrum has got to admit: this is brilliant.



Dubbed the "People's Bailout" basically it solicits donations to buy bad personal debts, then rather than acting as a collection company, it forgives the debt. The return on investment (donations) is tremendous and the effect on the economy is huge in comparison to its costs.

The companies who end up taking the brunt of the loss 1) would be taking the same loss no matter what happened to the debt afterward and 2) represent the segment of the economy that profited most from the debt bubble. So, it's pretty much win all around.

Wealthy progressives would do well to look into donating to this initiative, as it cuts right to the people's bottom line.
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why are you talking about credit card debt? we're talking about housing finance.
See above. There a tons of types of personal debts.

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I love when an economic argument fails people so they turn it into a moral issue.
I don't see how my economic argument failed. If we just keep bailing people out why the hell would I ever pay any of my debts? **** I will just go rack up$20k in debt and someone will bail me out.

People need to learn responsibility. This is true of the people who live outside their means whether it is through a fancy house, car, or any other item. And no matter what you say say there is two sides to a loan. No lender can force you to take their money. It is up to you to decide if the "personal debt" is acceptable for your level of income.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:21 PM #42
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I don't see how my economic argument failed. If we just keep bailing people out why the hell would I ever pay any of my debts? **** I will just go rack up$20k in debt and someone will bail me out.
If we "keep bailing people out" when's the last time it happened? Oh yeah, never.
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