[orange!]

No one can knock on cockers, that's just wrong.

[joe_cash419]

Originally Posted by godraep

They may have shot like a butter churner, but straight butter is a stretch for that hand cannon.

yeah.... i'm old... compared to today's machines your right... bet it still shoots tho... no batt. req.

[WillyW0nka]

Originally Posted by orange!

No one can knock on cockers, that's just wrong.

So how's WGP doing these days?

[jesse370]

Originally Posted by WillyW0nka

So how's WGP doing these days?

That has nothing to do with the design of a cocker and everything to do with what WGP was doing with the line, AND the march towards electronic guns. I had a 2k had a bad boys toys 3 way, macdev reg, CP ram, tornado valve, hand polished every part of the trigger, forget what bolt was in it...etc...but with all of that done it did rip, but you couldn't match the easy firing output of a guy with a shocker or angel.

And when I look back at the shear money in parts I'd be well over 2 grand, and that was before I sent it to nitro duck to get it milled and annodized.

Cockers and Mags are great markers but once the electronic guns started to get out into the wild they became endangered as a species.

[Iowa's#1Stunna]

[xmc1146]

^^^ this picture just keeps on popping up.

[Iowa's#1Stunna]

at least its not something else that keeps popping up

[xXSantos77Xx]

Just release it already.

[cb_neosythe]

Originally Posted by trucockerfan19

A top mounted solenoid, tubes holding an lpr, the valve, the hammer, roto breach, bolt, on/off electronics, and a large battery all inside the body.

Sounds more complex than a Timmy body to me.

And cockers were excellent on paint, which warranted its design imo

The old intimidators felt weakly put together and cheap. I think that is why the 05/06 Ego beat out the 05 and 06 Timmies and it took bob a couple of years to get back in the saddle of putting a lot of guns on the field. The Eclipse marker was a much more solid feeling gun in your hands than the Timmies and more ergonomic.

To review some of the weird complications. You had a honking asa and lpr in the front that had cocker hoses that were incredibly annoying. Ram sleeves that felt loose and again those cocker hoses and plugs. Cocker feed necks which were horrible and tall(2k2 models). So all in all I don't think they were perfect compared to the Angel models. They did shoot nice, and arguably had one of the best rated triggers by user(talking about timmies). Though they never had that solid feel I wanted. Angels at least felt like a singularly made product designed together. Where as the Timmy just felt like a home made spimmy that I paid some one to put together. I was glad when Eclipse finally started making their own guns. You got the timmy performance, and production quality.

That being said Bob is churning out really good markers today that finally resemble a well produced singular model. I'd like it if they had more than one tech on the staff, quicker turn around, and for 1000 dollars a box that wasn't from 07 or 08.

[masterofTHUMBS]

Overall, I would be a little disappointed if the Vanquish ended up being a shocker design. Empire did something pretty unique with the Axe/Mini (although King Cobra had it first I guess) so seeing something besides the average ego/timmy design or shocker design would be pretty cool. I'm sure Kee/Empire has a lot of money kicking around now, I want to see something new not some lame-*** knockoff.

[yodamann]

I was hoping for a new Angel

[deltaforcefront]

My money is there finally using some of their acquired SP rights. Every company needs a top end and the redline pro doesn't cut it

[MisfitKillaz]

i honestly wouldnt be all that upset if they just took the axe/mini bolt and put it in a nice gun that isnt 100% designed by cost cutting manufacturing. Things like the 85 degree grip frame and plastic air ways, the low quality boards, how the front grip mounts on the gun, how the asa mounts on the gun, the upper eye board...the axe would be a million times better if it wasnt designed to be made so cheaply. yes it brought the price down but they shoot pretty decent in reality, so i wouldnt be upset if instead of something new and revolutionary they just made a well put together marker. Seeing the pictures i doubt this is they way they went though.

[blklight]

Originally Posted by MisfitKillaz

i honestly wouldnt be all that upset if they just took the axe/mini bolt and put it in a nice gun that isnt 100% designed by cost cutting manufacturing. Things like the 85 degree grip frame and plastic air ways, the low quality boards, how the front grip mounts on the gun, how the asa mounts on the gun, the upper eye board...the axe would be a million times better if it wasnt designed to be made so cheaply. yes it brought the price down but they shoot pretty decent in reality, so i wouldnt be upset if instead of something new and revolutionary they just made a well put together marker. Seeing the pictures i doubt this is they way they went though.

Totally agree. The Axe was a good gun that could've been a great gun. Way too many decisions based on saving cost and not on the final product. This includes, IMO, the decision to keep a lot of the mistakes from the Mini going forward to save on manufacturing.

[JohnSherman]

Originally Posted by blklight

Totally agree. The Axe was a good gun that could've been a great gun. Way too many decisions based on saving cost and not on the final product. This includes, IMO, the decision to keep a lot of the mistakes from the Mini going forward to save on manufacturing.

Yes, because god forbid a marker that competes with guns twice its price has a couple of quirks.

[blklight]

Originally Posted by JohnSherman

Yes, because god forbid a marker that competes with guns twice its price has a couple of quirks.

What a gun competes with is purely marketing. They all shoot paintballs at 300 fps. Kee/Empire is smart enough to sponsor pro teams and have them shoot the Axe to get good paint deals.

The retail markup on the Axe is higher than most if not all markers in it's price range. People are just hoping Kee doesn't solely focus on a cheap dealer price with high markup this time around as they have the last two times with the Mini and Axe.

[TheBoss33]

Originally Posted by blklight

What a gun competes with is purely marketing. They all shoot paintballs at 300 fps. Kee/Empire is smart enough to sponsor pro teams and have them shoot the Axe to get good paint deals.

The retail markup on the Axe is higher than most if not all markers in it's price range. People are just hoping Kee doesn't solely focus on a cheap dealer price with high markup this time around as they have the last two times with the Mini and Axe.

The gun still needs to be reliable and shoot fragile paint to be used by a Pro Team.

And God Forbid that dealers are actually make a living. We need a punch in the face symbol, but this will have to do.

[fox5100]

Hoping it has some cool features and not just a copy of a copy of a copy.

[Umami]

Originally Posted by blklight

What a gun competes with is purely marketing. They all shoot paintballs at 300 fps. Kee/Empire is smart enough to sponsor pro teams and have them shoot the Axe to get good paint deals.

This is not entirely true. Reliability, efficiency and ease of maintenance all play a factor in whether or not a marker holds up in tournament conditions.

Originally Posted by blklight

The retail markup on the Axe is higher than most if not all markers in it's price range. People are just hoping Kee doesn't solely focus on a cheap dealer price with high markup this time around as they have the last two times with the Mini and Axe.

I don't see high retail markup as a bad thing by any means, especially once you consider the marker still blows everything else in its price range out of the water. B&M stores are great to have around, and it's good to see a big company like Kee giving the small guys an opportunity to make a profit (if what you're saying is true).

Overall, most of your gripes are your preference and not necessarily cost-cutting measures. The cost cutting measures that were taken which I can see plainly:

-Relatively plain body design/No eyecovers
-Simple grips
-Probably molded then finish milled parts

But none of that really impacts the marker's performance. I'm no fanboy, but as someone who is works in design your gripes are just ... incorrect.

[JoshC90]

The axe dosnt have any issues if your not an idiot. I shoot people with luxes/vapors/ego11s/geo3s all day and never have any issues whats so ever. One of the easyest to maintain and cronos with the best of them, so whats there "issue"?

Cant wait for this one, looks sick

[trucockerfan19]

It definitely does not have top notch electronics out of the box, and the biggest "issue" is how the Asa mounts. Could mention feednecks breaking off....