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Old 10-08-2012, 12:10 PM #1
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Tank grip ideas

I have a gallon of plasti dip at the house. Has anyone ever tried using this as a tank grip. Its just liquid form of rubber for dipping tools that the grip or previous rubber outer coating has worn off. Just curious if it has worked. I'll be trying today. I'd say this gallon would do 50-60 tanks at about 1/8" thick. I'm just unsure how well it will stick to the smooth tank surface. Tools are also smooth and it sticks to them great.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:54 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushhog750 View Post
I have a gallon of plasti dip at the house. Has anyone ever tried using this as a tank grip. Its just liquid form of rubber for dipping tools that the grip or previous rubber outer coating has worn off. Just curious if it has worked. I'll be trying today. I'd say this gallon would do 50-60 tanks at about 1/8" thick. I'm just unsure how well it will stick to the smooth tank surface. Tools are also smooth and it sticks to them great.
I'd be leary of doing this.

Any permanent modification will not only invalidate your warranty, it would also prevent you from re-hydro'ing your tank.

Also, some fields may refuse to fill the tank because the coating may hide defeats in the tank.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:11 PM #3
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I do see this as an issue. However I believe it will peel off rather easily if I were to ever rehydro my tanks. I normally sell them before it comes time to re-hydro. And do you really think that someone would say something about it being there? I see tape put on them all the time and it can cover just as much of the tank. Certainly someone wouldnt think that a little coating of rubber would keep a peeling, broken, or defective tank together. At 4500 psi you can only hide so much, a little rubber damn sure wont help if you got that kind of damage. But I guess its in the eye of the beholder. I surely wouldnt want to fill up a tank that i knew was defective and thought a little rubber on the end was gonna save it. I know at my field we fill our own tanks. It may not work for everyone but I believe it will work just fine for me. I am more curious to find out if it will stick.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:20 PM #4
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It isn't that the little bit of rubber is going to save it, it's that a little bit of rubber covering a tank will do exactly that with any cracks or whatever. Cover it. With tape, it's easy on, easy off, if need be. But with the rubber coating, when you go to a field, and if they want to see the tank before filling, then how long is it going to take off? And once off, can it be reapplied easily? If not, then what is the reason for putting it on in the first place?
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:26 PM #5
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I have dealt with the stuff quite a bit but mainly on coating tools. Id say it would come off quick if you pulled at it hard enough. The more I think about the more it seems like it might be a pain in the *** depending where Im at. My local fields absolutely no issues, anywhere else could mean having to tear off something that took an hour to put on.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:55 PM #6
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Don't put it on a gel coated tank. It may bond with the coating and actually rip chunks of it off.
Also don't apply it to a metal tank either. Scuba divers were doing this and it held moisture between the plastidip and tank cylinder and caused corrosion. Stay away from the plastidip for your air system.

Also, per DOT regulations having anything other then a hydro sticker applied to the surface of your cylinder is a federal violation. You're not even supposed to have stickers or tape on your system when you get down to it. Just food for thought.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:41 AM #7
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I tried it on an out of service hydro tank. Didn't work, it's to slick to stick. It did look really good but the first slide would have ripped it off completely.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:06 PM #8
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Originally Posted by Tabris17 View Post
...
Also, per DOT regulations having anything other then a hydro sticker applied to the surface of your cylinder is a federal violation. You're not even supposed to have stickers or tape on your system when you get down to it. Just food for thought.
If you are talking about DOT regulations, it needs to be made abundantly clear that these regulations only apply to the sale (loose interpretation) and commercial transport of the cylinders. What the end user does with the product is 100% up to the end user.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:42 PM #9
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True however a field can refuse the filling/service of an air system based on DOT regulations. One of them having tape/stickers on them. I've been at a few tournaments where tank tape was not allowed and if you left it on during play it was a penalty.
It's up to the discretion of the field owners/operators but it does happen. I've also been to fields where they never checked hydro and knew several people using out of date cylinders. Not the most comforting of thoughts.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:15 PM #10
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True however a field can refuse the filling/service of an air system based on DOT regulations. One of them having tape/stickers on them. I've been at a few tournaments where tank tape was not allowed and if you left it on during play it was a penalty.
It's up to the discretion of the field owners/operators but it does happen. I've also been to fields where they never checked hydro and knew several people using out of date cylinders. Not the most comforting of thoughts.
Exactly. I actually know of a local field where they sell off their HPA rental tanks, after they expire, and charge the same price as other stores selling the brand new tanks, and then filling them out, when they know that they are obviously out of hydro.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:04 PM #11
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Interesting, what about the clear dip/spray?
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:57 PM #12
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Do not put ANYTHING on your tank.
Anything in a spray can contains a propellant, often times these propellants are caustic and can literally eat something that reacts with it. Just put some spray paint on styrofoam and you'll see the styrofoam being eaten away from the propellant.
Again, it's against DOT regulations and also an extreme safety risk to put anything on your cylinder. You may very well be weakening or all out removing the gel coating and exposing fibers. Covering the cylinder also hides any damage like cracking that may be occurring.
Do not put anything on your cylinder that doesn't belong there. You're not even supposed to have a sticker on your cylinder because it can hide structural damage.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:57 PM #13
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Their are new tanks that have colors
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:08 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabris17 View Post
Do not put ANYTHING on your tank.
Anything in a spray can contains a propellant, often times these propellants are caustic and can literally eat something that reacts with it. Just put some spray paint on styrofoam and you'll see the styrofoam being eaten away from the propellant.
Again, it's against DOT regulations and also an extreme safety risk to put anything on your cylinder. You may very well be weakening or all out removing the gel coating and exposing fibers. Covering the cylinder also hides any damage like cracking that may be occurring.
Do not put anything on your cylinder that doesn't belong there. You're not even supposed to have a sticker on your cylinder because it can hide structural damage.
I'll look into the propellant theory, but tanks that have a gel coating like the Ninja ones have that coating over the actual epoxy resin that is used to give the woven fibre their strength. The gel coating is purely cosmetic. I honestly don't think the Plasti dip in liquid or spray form is going to affect the structural integrity of the resin/fibers. As far as covering the cylinder is concerned that's why I asked about a CLEAR dip/spray. If the tank has no visible signs of damage what would be the harm in applying a clear rubber coating that is easily removed for re-hydro? The whole argument about DOT regulations is moot also.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:02 PM #15
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The black epoxy is cosmetic. The clear coat is not. With the dura tanks that's again another protective coating so you don't have to use a cover if you don't want too.
However, that is part of the tank design. It is allowed by DOT regulations to be there.
Applying anything else yourself/aftermarket is against DOT regulations. It's a massive safety risk because you don't know how it's going to bond with the gel coating or colored epoxy layer. If a hydro test facility detects anything on your cylinder that shouldn't be there and isn't part of the tank from manufacturer it can result in an automatic failure of the visual inspection.
So the DOT argument is not moot. Any cylinder manufacturer is going to tell you the same thing. Do not put anything on your cylinder that doesn't belong there. Don't put stickers on it, don't color it, don't dip it, don't spray paint it, don't duracoat it, don't do anything to your cylinder. Stick a cover on it, a tank butt, or some virtue/ninja grip tape. Even then tank tape technically shouldn't be there. I've been at tournaments where they told people to take it off before going onto the field and if they didn't it was a penalty.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:10 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
If you are talking about DOT regulations, it needs to be made abundantly clear that these regulations only apply to the sale (loose interpretation) and commercial transport of the cylinders. What the end user does with the product is 100% up to the end user.
The DOT regulations are moot based on the above quote, AND, unless you have a Department Of Transportation law enforcement agent present and inspecting everyone's tanks at your local field, it becomes even less of an issue.

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The black epoxy is cosmetic. The clear coat is not. With the dura tanks that's again another protective coating so you don't have to use a cover if you don't want too.
However, that is part of the tank design. It is allowed by DOT regulations to be there.
We are talking about doing this and protecting existing tanks, not the new duracoat tanks from Ninja, obviously there would be no need to to do this to these tanks.

Quote:
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Applying anything else yourself/aftermarket is against DOT regulations. It's a massive safety risk because you don't know how it's going to bond with the gel coating or colored epoxy layer. If a hydro test facility detects anything on your cylinder that shouldn't be there and isn't part of the tank from manufacturer it can result in an automatic failure of the visual inspection.
So the DOT argument is not moot. Any cylinder manufacturer is going to tell you the same thing. Do not put anything on your cylinder that doesn't belong there. Don't put stickers on it, don't color it, don't dip it, don't spray paint it, don't duracoat it, don't do anything to your cylinder. Stick a cover on it, a tank butt, or some virtue/ninja grip tape. Even then tank tape technically shouldn't be there. I've been at tournaments where they told people to take it off before going onto the field and if they didn't it was a penalty.
You would remove the plasti-dip or whatever before re-hydro, just like you would remove the reg and tank cover, at least that is what my hydro test facility requires of me and everyone else that needs a re-hydro. I have had tank covers (redz, to name one) that have left a sticky residue on the tank from the rubber on the tank cover and they have never failed a visual inspection, and the rubber was clearly visible.

Safety is the ultimate concern here and I understand your argument, but if everything is up to par with the tank, what else would be the harm in applying what is ultimately a spray on tank cover to protect the tank? Especially when it is clear and removable for re-hydro. So far I see no reason why it cant be done safely, so long as it does not negatively affect the structural integrity of the tank, namely the epoxy resin/fibres, NOT the gel coating as you have mentioned before.

I am going to try this on an out of service tank to see what happens, the plasti-dip is used on a lot of surfaces without any ill affects, I don't see it harming a harder than cement epoxy resin/carbon fibre/fibre tank. I will keep you guys posted.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:21 AM #17
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What is this clear, rubbery coating? I ask because I haven't seen, not that it doesn't exist, a tool dip that is clear. The other part, which I think Tabris is possibly mentioning, is that the adhesive on something like a tool dip, could be detrimental to the epoxy.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:23 PM #18
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I don't know for certain whether Plastidip will eat the tank epoxy however I do know that it is harmless to car paint. People Plastidip their whole cars (looks awful lol) and the company makes all kinds of colors and spray kits because of this. It peels off after a few months.

I believe that they now makes a gloss clear dip/spray. I do know that they make a matte clear spray, the idea being that you can make your car's existing paint matte.

I don't recommend plastidip on tanks though because it might react with the epoxy as discussed.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:21 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushhog750 View Post
I tried it on an out of service hydro tank. Didn't work, it's to slick to stick. It did look really good but the first slide would have ripped it off completely.
The Plastidip won't work as Bushhog already tried it.
Seriously, don't put anything on the cylinders. If something were to happen to the cylinder the legal ramification of damage, injuries, or deaths would be solely on you. A cylinder manufacturer could easily site DOT regulations on how something should have not been on the cylinder and was the cause or lead to the cause of a structural failure.
I know everybody just brushes off DOT regulations but in the event something were to happen blame can easily be pointed by siting regulations. If you do everything you're supposed to within the regulations and something were to happen then you can point the finger at the manufacturing lot. It's really for your own safety in terms of everything in the event of a severe accident.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:59 PM #20
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I agree with Tabris. I worked for a small company that made Kevlar reinforced fiberglass helmets and though it took 7 strikes with a 4lb sledge hammer to delaminate our helmets, any aftermarket aerosol coatings would instantly void our warranty. The solvents in paint or plasti-dip will eat gel coat. You've been warned several times now. I'm not sure that bucket dip will be as bad, but it does contain solvents as well. Is the possibility of catastrophic failure not worth finding another way to make your tank grippy?
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:24 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabris17 View Post
The Plastidip won't work as Bushhog already tried it.
Seriously, don't put anything on the cylinders. If something were to happen to the cylinder the legal ramification of damage, injuries, or deaths would be solely on you. A cylinder manufacturer could easily site DOT regulations on how something should have not been on the cylinder and was the cause or lead to the cause of a structural failure.
I know everybody just brushes off DOT regulations but in the event something were to happen blame can easily be pointed by siting regulations. If you do everything you're supposed to within the regulations and something were to happen then you can point the finger at the manufacturing lot. It's really for your own safety in terms of everything in the event of a severe accident.
Noted and I appreciate the concern, but this logic can be applied to tank covers and butts also, no? Just wondering as I am learning a bit from this discussion.

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I agree with Tabris. I worked for a small company that made Kevlar reinforced fiberglass helmets and though it took 7 strikes with a 4lb sledge hammer to delaminate our helmets, any aftermarket aerosol coatings would instantly void our warranty. The solvents in paint or plasti-dip will eat gel coat. You've been warned several times now. I'm not sure that bucket dip will be as bad, but it does contain solvents as well. Is the possibility of catastrophic failure not worth finding another way to make your tank grippy?
Actually I was asking from a protective standpoint, I would like to protect my tank from knicks, cracks, bangs, dents, etc. with the coating/dip or whatever you want to call it, so it can pass re-hydro. I don't believe in spending 150$-170$ every 3 to 5 years on a new tank when I have taken care of my existing tanks and a re-hydro costs 16$ each. The grip just would be an added bonus, killing 2 birds with one stone, so to speak. This would also eliminate the need for me to buy tank covers every couple of years or so.

I have e-mailed Plasti-dip and asked them if it will in fact harm a carbon fiber wrapped hpa cylinder, waiting on a response now.

Kind of giggled at the "You've been warned several times now" remark. Don't worry, I won't blame anybody in this thread if something catastrophic were to happen. I'm not the "I'm gonna sue you for my stupidity" type. Either way I'm a bit smarter than that, I ask questions and do research when it comes to me and my family's safety, thus the reason why I'm asking here.

I honestly see this as another form of a tank cover and nothing more. A cheaper alternative to tank butts, grips, covers and what have you. I also think its just as dangerous, if not more, to be playing with an uncovered and unprotected tank with the way these guys are diving and sliding everywhere now a days, but that is just me, I'm a bit older and don't really do all that fancy stuff and I like to save money and take care of my gear.
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