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Old 10-24-2012, 11:27 PM #1
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Why do today's paintball videos actually hurt the sport of paintball?

Have you ever watched a baseball game, basketball game, or football game on television? I have and I'm sure you have too. Have you ever watched an entire game zoomed in on individual players? Imagine watching an entire football game from a zoomed in angle on the quarterback from different angles. Or imagine you are watching a baseball game and the camera switches back and forth between the pitcher and batter at high rates and at an increased zoom. What about basketball? What if all you saw was the player making a move, dribbling, and shooting. Then maybe you get a zoomed in version of the hoop when the ball either hits the rim or goes in. Wouldn't this suck?

You would be missing so many little intricacies of the game. You wouldn't see the formations of the football teams, the audibles and how the players adjust to the game. You wouldn't see the wide receiver attempting to go across the middle only to get smashed by Ray Lewis. You wouldn't see two big men battling for a rebound down low. You wouldn't catch Ron Artest elbowing James Harden in the back of the head for no reason. You wouldn't see the the ball land just inside the foul line. In essence, you would be missing the most important parts of the game. So why in the HELL does everyone make paintball videos in a manner that makes no sense in every other sport?

What does it really do to the sport, as a whole, to have these redundant and mostly useless camera angles? Well for one, individuals that are watching the sport for the first time see the same camera shots over and over of some guy shooting his gun at 12.5 bps, but they have NO IDEA where he is shooting or why he is shooting in that particular direction. In other words, he watches clip after clip of a pitcher throwing a ball at a catcher without knowing if the guy threw a ball, strike, curveball, fastball, or changeup.

Worse yet, the viewer has no understanding of the actual game play. He doesn't get to see the beauty that is paintball. He can't watch Oliver Lang bump to the god bunker, followed by Yosh Rau filling Oliver's old position, while Ryan Greenspan fills out the tape. Meanwhile, Alex Fraige and Alex Goldman are shooting their lanes and making sure their teammates fill their positions safely. This is what paintball really is. It is coordinated, methodical, and planned out game play. It is an orchestra that is a result of many years of hard work. It is NOT one guy shooting his gun at some position on the field, anyone can do that - you don't have to be a professional to shoot a paintball gun at 12.5 bps at a random spot on the field.

For the sake of the sport, literally, can we please change the way we record paintball. Each video should be thought of as an audition to attract a potential player, a potential sponsor, or another player. What potential player wants to just shoot a paintball gun at an inflated bunker? They can do that in their back yard for a lot less money. What sponsor is going to take on a team that looks good while they shoot their marker? You don't have to be sponsored to do that. Any player looking for a potential team can see that you can shoot a ramping gun at 12.5 bps, but can your team coordinate and win consistently? We should think of the integrity and essence of the sport before we fill YouTube with a bunch of clips of the same exact thing; a short clip of some guy shooting at a random spot on the field, while the rest of the sport is unbeknownst to our viewers because the same poor viewing angles are repeatedly used. Videographers are on the front line of expanding paintball, so please put our sport on display in its entirety and quit selling the sport short. I am begging you.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:32 PM #2
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Watch a psp webcast. It's 80% wide angle.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:07 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egos4flifeguy View Post
Watch a psp webcast. It's 80% wide angle.
Correct, in fact Paintball Access may save the sport by their telecasts. Between Matty, Todd, and Chris, they give great insight to the sport and really do their best to fill in the viewers with what is actually going on with the game play. Additionally, their viewing angles are much improved. They have multiple cameras for breakouts and even offer a wide angle view of the field.

PSP webcasts are good as well. Just look at the amount of videos they have on YouTube, arguably the easiest way of watching paintball, and it's a shame they only have a small fraction of videos compared to the amount of poor videos available for viewing. In its entirety, the amount of poorly shot games compared to sensible angles is unbelievably lopsided.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:53 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobbs024 View Post
Have you ever watched a baseball game, basketball game, or football game on television? I have and I'm sure you have too. Have you ever watched an entire game zoomed in on individual players? Imagine watching an entire football game from a zoomed in angle on the quarterback from different angles. Or imagine you are watching a baseball game and the camera switches back and forth between the pitcher and batter at high rates and at an increased zoom. What about basketball? What if all you saw was the player making a move, dribbling, and shooting. Then maybe you get a zoomed in version of the hoop when the ball either hits the rim or goes in. Wouldn't this suck?

You would be missing so many little intricacies of the game. You wouldn't see the formations of the football teams, the audibles and how the players adjust to the game. You wouldn't see the wide receiver attempting to go across the middle only to get smashed by Ray Lewis. You wouldn't see two big men battling for a rebound down low. You wouldn't catch Ron Artest elbowing James Harden in the back of the head for no reason. You wouldn't see the the ball land just inside the foul line. In essence, you would be missing the most important parts of the game. So why in the HELL does everyone make paintball videos in a manner that makes no sense in every other sport?

What does it really do to the sport, as a whole, to have these redundant and mostly useless camera angles? Well for one, individuals that are watching the sport for the first time see the same camera shots over and over of some guy shooting his gun at 12.5 bps, but they have NO IDEA where he is shooting or why he is shooting in that particular direction. In other words, he watches clip after clip of a pitcher throwing a ball at a catcher without knowing if the guy threw a ball, strike, curveball, fastball, or changeup.

Worse yet, the viewer has no understanding of the actual game play. He doesn't get to see the beauty that is paintball. He can't watch Oliver Lang bump to the god bunker, followed by Yosh Rau filling Oliver's old position, while Ryan Greenspan fills out the tape. Meanwhile, Alex Fraige and Alex Goldman are shooting their lanes and making sure their teammates fill their positions safely. This is what paintball really is. It is coordinated, methodical, and planned out game play. It is an orchestra that is a result of many years of hard work. It is NOT one guy shooting his gun at some position on the field, anyone can do that - you don't have to be a professional to shoot a paintball gun at 12.5 bps at a random spot on the field.

For the sake of the sport, literally, can we please change the way we record paintball. Each video should be thought of as an audition to attract a potential player, a potential sponsor, or another player. What potential player wants to just shoot a paintball gun at an inflated bunker? They can do that in their back yard for a lot less money. What sponsor is going to take on a team that looks good while they shoot their marker? You don't have to be sponsored to do that. Any player looking for a potential team can see that you can shoot a ramping gun at 12.5 bps, but can your team coordinate and win consistently? We should think of the integrity and essence of the sport before we fill YouTube with a bunch of clips of the same exact thing; a short clip of some guy shooting at a random spot on the field, while the rest of the sport is unbeknownst to our viewers because the same poor viewing angles are repeatedly used. Videographers are on the front line of expanding paintball, so please put our sport on display in its entirety and quit selling the sport short. I am begging you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobbs024 View Post
Correct, in fact Paintball Access may save the sport by their telecasts. Between Matty, Todd, and Chris, they give great insight to the sport and really do their best to fill in the viewers with what is actually going on with the game play. Additionally, their viewing angles are much improved. They have multiple cameras for breakouts and even offer a wide angle view of the field.

PSP webcasts are good as well. Just look at the amount of videos they have on YouTube, arguably the easiest way of watching paintball, and it's a shame they only have a small fraction of videos compared to the amount of poor videos available for viewing. In its entirety, the amount of poorly shot games compared to sensible angles is unbelievably lopsided.
I find it a little disconcerting that you don't understand the difference between a broadcast and a montage, and that you wrote an entire page worth of text about it. A broadcast, such as the one put on by PBA, is meant to provide full coverage of entire matches. Montages are short videos that generally condense a full-day tournament into a few minutes. They aren't meant to provide an accurate record of every match of the tournament, they are just supposed to be entertaining.

And this most certainly isn't "hurting the sport." I hate that phrase, especially when it is applied to superficial crap like this.

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:01 AM #5
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:08 AM #6
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Unfortunately it is seen by the public as an individual sport, but I don't know if you can attribute that to camera angles in videos since I don't think many non-paintballers watch paintball videos. But either way, the end result is the same.

It annoys me a ton when I go on eBay to check if any cool paintball stuff is being sold, and the Paintball section is categorized under "Outdoor Sports" instead of "Team Sports".

I wrote this at 4am, sorry about writing weird or typos... this guy needs some sleep.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:12 AM #7
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I think the way it is done now is fine. With the webcasts, that's enough of that kind of footage. The HK Army and Social Painball mixes, 9/10 serious players love them, are amazing. Cassidy does a great job.

I think that they should brodcast the psp events, on an Espn channel. I can't believe they have stupid stuff like "billards" on espn, but not the major psp events. That is ridiculous.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:50 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egos4flifeguy View Post
I think the way it is done now is fine. With the webcasts, that's enough of that kind of footage. The HK Army and Social Painball mixes, 9/10 serious players love them, are amazing. Cassidy does a great job.

I think that they should brodcast the psp events, on an Espn channel. I can't believe they have stupid stuff like "billards" on espn, but not the major psp events. That is ridiculous.
^This
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:52 PM #9
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I think the webcasts over the last couple years are great.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:26 AM #10
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Originally Posted by JohnSherman View Post
I find it a little disconcerting that you don't understand the difference between a broadcast and a montage, and that you wrote an entire page worth of text about it. A broadcast, such as the one put on by PBA, is meant to provide full coverage of entire matches. Montages are short videos that generally condense a full-day tournament into a few minutes. They aren't meant to provide an accurate record of every match of the tournament, they are just supposed to be entertaining.

And this most certainly isn't "hurting the sport." I hate that phrase, especially when it is applied to superficial crap like this.
I do understand the difference between a montage and a broadcast. The HK videos are awesome videos. In fact I have posted them on my Facebook page as some of the best paintball montages, if you will, that I have seen. I love the Surf City Open montage by HK and their previous World Cup video.

These do not hurt the sport of paintball, in fact I think they do a great job of illustrating the type of adrenaline that is involved in the game. Adrenaline junkies would probably be attracted to the sport after watching some of the videos. This isn't what concerns me.

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzaEQgg3FCs

Go to this link and read the very first comment. Thank you. This isn't a montage, this is a broadcast of a match in its entirety. As you're watching the video, do you really think this is a good way of displaying the sport? Don't you see what I mean when I say that most of the sport is lost due to the poor views?

So please, don't be disconcerted that I don't understand the difference between a montage and a broadcast, because I do. More importantly, this thread wasn't started because of my knowledge of film. This thread isn't about me, it's about something much more important and greater - the progression of the sport of paintball.

Lastly, how can you consider one of the only means of displaying the sport superficial? That is "disconcerting." That would be like saying ESPN isn't important to sports. Paintball Access and YouTube are the ESPN's of paintball. Enlighten me as to where you think paintball would be without these media platforms? Don't worry, I'll wait.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:31 AM #11
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you also have to realize watching the whole game from a wide angle will make it so you cant see whos shooting at whom, and everyone would be too tiny for people to be able to root for the main players. webcasts try their best to stay on players making big moves or the a-list players. just as golf does (which is also a tournament based sport) when youre on espn you only really get to see the top players play. the rest dont even get broadcast. if you can think of a way to film paintball with replays (like football, basketball, and baseball do) without breaking the bank please enlighten us. but for now i think this is all we can do.

on a side note. i think itd be pretty cool if they could have every player on the field with a barrel cam on and somehow wirelessly sync it to the broadcast so when a player makes a sick move or goes to bunker someone they can replay it for first person POV.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:52 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobbs024 View Post
I do understand the difference between a montage and a broadcast. The HK videos are awesome videos. In fact I have posted them on my Facebook page as some of the best paintball montages, if you will, that I have seen. I love the Surf City Open montage by HK and their previous World Cup video.

These do not hurt the sport of paintball, in fact I think they do a great job of illustrating the type of adrenaline that is involved in the game. Adrenaline junkies would probably be attracted to the sport after watching some of the videos. This isn't what concerns me.

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzaEQgg3FCs

Go to this link and read the very first comment. Thank you. This isn't a montage, this is a broadcast of a match in its entirety. As you're watching the video, do you really think this is a good way of displaying the sport? Don't you see what I mean when I say that most of the sport is lost due to the poor views?

So please, don't be disconcerted that I don't understand the difference between a montage and a broadcast, because I do. More importantly, this thread wasn't started because of my knowledge of film. This thread isn't about me, it's about something much more important and greater - the progression of the sport of paintball.

Lastly, how can you consider one of the only means of displaying the sport superficial? That is "disconcerting." That would be like saying ESPN isn't important to sports. Paintball Access and YouTube are the ESPN's of paintball. Enlighten me as to where you think paintball would be without these media platforms? Don't worry, I'll wait.
I can see how it might be a little frustrating that its not the whole field... but to say its hurting the sport is a little far-fetched

Not to mention you bring up sporting events on ESPN and such... who have full fledged camera crews where they switch between camera angles.... Most PB videos are done by one camera, who can only get his own footage. So when they are uploaded, you have 2 choices, a camera high in the sky getting all the action where you dont see who is shooting who, or closeups of individual players and not the whole field.

In the end, it comes down to money.

And to say the recent videos are bad is a little stretched too.... One of my favorite videos was done in 2011
One of the best games to watch in terms of action and video footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPeN4_yEu3c
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:35 PM #13
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I won't argue that money doesn't influence the filming of paintball, because if we had the budget of ESPN, I'm sure we could figure something out.

There are wider viewing angles that allow the viewer to see where each player is shooting, at least players from one team. This can be seen in the Paintball Access coverage of this year's World Cup.

On a side note, I would like to comment on the coverage of the World Cup this year. It was drastically improved and by the far the best coverage of paintball I have seen to date. I really and truly mean this.

The viewing angles improved, the body counts improved, the on screen illustrations have improved, and the commentary has as well. I do not know that these improvements were necessarily due to increased funding, but more a result of fine tuning their coverage. I am sure more money is pumped into WC than any other event during the year, but if the broadcast of the first event is comparable to this coverage, then I think it will be safe to say that they have begun to refine their coverage of events.

Now, one topic that was brought up in another section of PBNation was the lack of a particular item to focus on. The individual mentioned how basketball, baseball, football, etc can be watched by focusing on the individual ball. Paintball doesn't have the luxury of focusing on one individual piece of equipment. If we can figure out what our "ball" will be, it will make paintball much more spectator friendly. We have to guide our viewers eye's and show them what to look for. Paintball is a new sport, despite it being around for many years, and we have to show our viewers what to look for in the game so they can appreciate that aspect of it.

In past coverage I have seen a digital layout of the field with the players locations. Maybe this will help. Viewers will have the luxury of following the game in its entirety while still being able to watch the actual footage of the game. Baseball coverage has this for their viewers. They light up the bases when a player is at that position.

Hockey had a neon blurr for the puck. They tried it and it didn't really work for them. Golf also has trajectories of the ball in flight. What if we tried to do something similar with the streams of paint? Obviously, this may be distracting and overwhelming if we tried this on every stream of paint on the field. We could pick particular streams of paint to watch. For instance, we could light up Travis Lemanski's lanes of the break.

There are many ways for this sport to increase its coverage. This thread isn't a means of bashing the sport and the individuals that cover it. My true reason for this thread is to throw out ideas for our friends who are taking the time and effort to display our sport. Maybe we can come up with an idea that improves our sport, this is the point of this thread.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:14 AM #14
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Originally Posted by Egos4flifeguy View Post
I think the way it is done now is fine. With the webcasts, that's enough of that kind of footage. The HK Army and Social Painball mixes, 9/10 serious players love them, are amazing. Cassidy does a great job.

I think that they should brodcast the psp events, on an Espn channel. I can't believe they have stupid stuff like "billards" on espn, but not the major psp events. That is ridiculous.
The reason they wont show paintball on tv is because it is "war time" and they dont want to influence violence through sport. If you remember before 9/11 paintball was played on ESPN several times a week. Now after we pull all our military back out and wait a couple of years I guarantee that it will be back on television.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:35 AM #15
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The reason they wont show paintball on tv is because it is "war time" and they dont want to influence violence through sport. If you remember before 9/11 paintball was played on ESPN several times a week. Now after we pull all our military back out and wait a couple of years I guarantee that it will be back on television.
... This is a joke right? Please tell me you don't honestly believe this.

Paintball's television heyday was 2006, well into both the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. ESPN decision to drop paintball from their lineup had nothing to do with violence, and everything to do with viewership. Paintball didn't attract a large enough audience to make it worth the time and money that ESPN needed to spend to broadcast tournaments.

Furthermore, paintball was never at any point broadcast on ESPN several times per week. Their deal with the NPPL, which only hosted five tournaments a year, wouldn't have given them the amount of content required for a regular broadcast schedule. WGN, on the other hand, did broadcast Arena Paintball matches each week for a few months in 2006.

I honestly don't understand how you got it into your head that this was a result of wars and violence.
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