Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2012, 02:02 PM #85
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
the pointing up and down has to do with plato and aristotle's theory of the forms (plato pointing up because he believes the forms to be in another realm, aristotle down because he believes the forms to be inside of everything). I'm confused as to what that has to do with this.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-22-2012, 02:23 PM #86
Swerve22
 
 
Swerve22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord NH
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
Man wasn't good when they were in paradise...
?
__________________
Butthurt Conservative.

www.gunfacts.info
Swerve22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 02:35 PM #87
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
the pointing up and down has to do with plato and aristotle's theory of the forms (plato pointing up because he believes the forms to be in another realm, aristotle down because he believes the forms to be inside of everything). I'm confused as to what that has to do with this.
I do believe it was Plotinus who consolidated it into both being true.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 02:44 PM #88
scienceguy
 
 
scienceguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
I'm not familiar with the backstory on the painting, i read the wiki and was a little confused how it fits here, but to answer your question:

I feel that Man is inherently man. Good and evil are tools for marketing.
scienceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 04:28 PM #89
licence2kill
POOP
 
licence2kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Orange County
Man is inherently cooperative, which most people think is good.
licence2kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 05:10 PM #90
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
i was a little confused how it fits here
it doesn't
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 06:34 PM #91
custar
 
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Norman, OK
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
FYI: GSK just got fined $3billion for suggesting that doctors prescribe their drugs off label.
Six Italian seismologists were recently convicted (along with one government official) of being in error in predicting an earthquake.


Somehow this belongs in this thread:



custar
__________________
Are the Geisterjagers over the top?
Well, let's just say "The Top" is barely a speck in our rear view mirror.


"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United states who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..."
Samuel Adams
Ave Caesar Obama! Tributituri ad moritus te salutant.

Looking for Action Markers Diadem Tanks for sale

Old feedback thread
custar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 07:42 PM #92
ladd_17
bA What?!?
 
ladd_17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nasti 'Nati
ladd_17 is a Supporting Member
ladd_17 plays in the PSP
ladd_17 plays in the APPA D3 division
ladd_17 is Boss
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM

Man wasn't good when they were in paradise...
Good =/= obedient
__________________
ladd_17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 07:50 PM #93
F1VENOM
 
 
F1VENOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd_17 View Post
Good =/= obedient
Maybe if we weren't talking about religion, but obedience is equivocated with being "good" in most religions.
__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"
F1VENOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 07:54 PM #94
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post

Maybe if we weren't talking about religion, but obedience is equivocated with being "good" in most religions.
We aren't talking about religion.
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 07:55 PM #95
F1VENOM
 
 
F1VENOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
We aren't talking about religion.
We are in that I'm assuming swerve is referring to a stable society as one that's dominated by Christianity.
__________________
"Originally posted by visualx: hey everyone, look at me. i call people poor though i make absolutely nothing; brag about my job as an intern or some ****; hate on people for not being fat like me; and absolutely never have any idea what i'm talking about, though i always have a ****ing righteous indignation with everything i say! aren't i ****ing amazing?! do you all like me yet?! oh, you know that hate is just a guise! good thing i have a ****ing amazing life! now let me go **** my fat girlfriend and cry myself to sleep"
F1VENOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 08:05 PM #96
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
oooo
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 08:36 AM #97
scienceguy
 
 
scienceguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
Man is inherently cooperative, which most people think is good.
The concept of good and evil is especially useful when used to get men to cooperate in killing each other.
scienceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:03 AM #98
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd_17 View Post
Good =/= obedient
biblically "good" and "obedience to God" are very much the same thing...
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:41 AM #99
chodeyg
sprezzatura
 
chodeyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: via lactea
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
The concept of good and evil is especially useful when used to get men to cooperate in killing each other.
Remember, its not a sin if you're killing for your country. Supposedly.
__________________
Resurrect dead on planet Jupiter
chodeyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:19 AM #100
StellarKnight
Mind Erasure
 
StellarKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lost...In a Lost World
StellarKnight is a Supporting Member
StellarKnight is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
StellarKnight has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
No
So there's a way to objectively determine inherent goodness? Do you agree with Ladd's take that "goodness" doesn't necessarily equate to obedience?
__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.
StellarKnight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:27 AM #101
EPAPressure
Jobs are for immigrants
 
EPAPressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
Man is inherently cooperative, which most people think is good.
As long as it benefits them or it is out of fear of punishment. Man is actually inherently greedy and self absorbed.
__________________
"Chic-Fi-La has an awful chicken sandwich"

-Said nobody, ever.


"Originally posted by drgonzo: That doesn't make sense, the people with the most interaction and dependence on government have the most significant stakes and should have the vote if anyone. People who reject government and do not use government services should be denied the vote if anything." ^^FAIL

"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: When I think geocities I think ****ty tiled background and sparkly titles. Think of a minority's myspace page."
EPAPressure is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:07 AM #102
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
So there's a way to objectively determine inherent goodness? Do you agree with Ladd's take that "goodness" doesn't necessarily equate to obedience?
Probably.

I agree with Ladd.

I realize that this is vague, sometimes simple is best. Do I need to elaborate?
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:40 AM #103
StellarKnight
Mind Erasure
 
StellarKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lost...In a Lost World
StellarKnight is a Supporting Member
StellarKnight is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
StellarKnight has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Do I need to elaborate?
Yeah, because I don't understand how "inherent goodness" can be objectively measured without determining if one's course of conduct adheres to a some sort of standard.
__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.
StellarKnight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:03 PM #104
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
Yeah, because I don't understand how "inherent goodness" can be objectively measured without determining if one's course of conduct adheres to a some sort of standard.
He used the word obedience which would imply that it is not inherent in man to be good. This is a different question in my mind. Would you still like my answer?
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:38 PM #105
ladd_17
bA What?!?
 
ladd_17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nasti 'Nati
ladd_17 is a Supporting Member
ladd_17 plays in the PSP
ladd_17 plays in the APPA D3 division
ladd_17 is Boss
Quote:
Originally Posted by chodeyg View Post
Remember, its not a sin if you're killing for your country. Supposedly.
In a situation where you have to kill for your country, you are also fighting for your own life. I think it could be argued that self-defense is not a sin, but that's another topic.

To expand on my comment above, I believe that man is inherently selfish. We do what is in our best interest. This lends itself to license2kill's statement that man is inherently cooperative.

In a civilized society, I believe is typically most beneficial to oneself to be cooperative with your fellow man. This is why people conform to societal norms and why some people attempt to equate "obedient" with "good". However, when it is no longer in the best interests of a man to be obedient, that man, being inherently selfish, will break the societal norms to get what he needs.
__________________

Last edited by ladd_17 : 10-23-2012 at 12:43 PM.
ladd_17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump