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10-22-2012, 02:02 PM
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#85
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Words and Stuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll
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the pointing up and down has to do with plato and aristotle's theory of the forms (plato pointing up because he believes the forms to be in another realm, aristotle down because he believes the forms to be inside of everything). I'm confused as to what that has to do with this.
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Milton produced Paradise Lost for the same reason as a silkworm produces silk. It was an expression of his own nature. - Karl Marx
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10-22-2012, 02:23 PM
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#86
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord NH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM
Man wasn't good when they were in paradise...
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10-22-2012, 02:35 PM
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#87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin
the pointing up and down has to do with plato and aristotle's theory of the forms (plato pointing up because he believes the forms to be in another realm, aristotle down because he believes the forms to be inside of everything). I'm confused as to what that has to do with this.
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I do believe it was Plotinus who consolidated it into both being true. |
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10-22-2012, 02:44 PM
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#88
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I'm not familiar with the backstory on the painting, i read the wiki and was a little confused how it fits here, but to answer your question:
I feel that Man is inherently man. Good and evil are tools for marketing.
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10-22-2012, 04:28 PM
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#89
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POOP
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Orange County
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Man is inherently cooperative, which most people think is good.
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10-22-2012, 05:10 PM
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#90
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Words and Stuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy
i was a little confused how it fits here
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it doesn't
__________________
Milton produced Paradise Lost for the same reason as a silkworm produces silk. It was an expression of his own nature. - Karl Marx
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10-22-2012, 06:34 PM
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#91
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Norman, OK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy
FYI: GSK just got fined $3billion for suggesting that doctors prescribe their drugs off label.
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Six Italian seismologists were recently convicted (along with one government official) of being in error in predicting an earthquake.
Somehow this belongs in this thread:
custar
__________________
Are the Geisterjagers over the top?
Well, let's just say "The Top" is barely a speck in our rear view mirror.
"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United states who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..."Samuel Adams Ave Caesar Obama! Tributituri ad moritus te salutant.
Looking for Axe Tanks for sale
Old feedback thread
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10-22-2012, 07:42 PM
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#92
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bA What?!?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nasti 'Nati
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by F1VENOM
Man wasn't good when they were in paradise...
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Good =/= obedient |
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10-22-2012, 07:50 PM
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#93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd_17
Good =/= obedient
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Maybe if we weren't talking about religion, but obedience is equivocated with being "good" in most religions. |
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10-22-2012, 07:54 PM
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#94
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secedere
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM
Maybe if we weren't talking about religion, but obedience is equivocated with being "good" in most religions.
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We aren't talking about religion. |
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10-22-2012, 07:55 PM
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#95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll
We aren't talking about religion.
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We are in that I'm assuming swerve is referring to a stable society as one that's dominated by Christianity. |
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10-22-2012, 08:05 PM
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#96
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secedere
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
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oooo
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10-23-2012, 08:36 AM
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#97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by licence2kill
Man is inherently cooperative, which most people think is good.
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The concept of good and evil is especially useful when used to get men to cooperate in killing each other. |
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10-23-2012, 09:03 AM
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#98
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Words and Stuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd_17
Good =/= obedient
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biblically "good" and "obedience to God" are very much the same thing...
__________________
Milton produced Paradise Lost for the same reason as a silkworm produces silk. It was an expression of his own nature. - Karl Marx
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10-23-2012, 09:41 AM
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#99
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sprezzatura
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: via lactea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy
The concept of good and evil is especially useful when used to get men to cooperate in killing each other.
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Remember, its not a sin if you're killing for your country. Supposedly.
__________________
Resurrect dead on planet Jupiter
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10-23-2012, 10:19 AM
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#100
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Mind Erasure
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lost...In a Lost World
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch
No
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So there's a way to objectively determine inherent goodness? Do you agree with Ladd's take that "goodness" doesn't necessarily equate to obedience?
__________________
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it
O you who believe! Be mindful of God and give up what remains of riba if you are believers. If you do not do so, then receive a declaration of war from God and his Messenger. But if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. You do not deal unjustly and you are not dealt with unjustly
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10-23-2012, 10:27 AM
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#101
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Jobs are for immigrants
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by licence2kill
Man is inherently cooperative, which most people think is good.
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As long as it benefits them or it is out of fear of punishment. Man is actually inherently greedy and self absorbed.
__________________
"Chic-Fi-La has an awful chicken sandwich"
-Said nobody, ever.
"Originally posted by drgonzo: That doesn't make sense, the people with the most interaction and dependence on government have the most significant stakes and should have the vote if anyone. People who reject government and do not use government services should be denied the vote if anything." ^^FAIL
"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: When I think geocities I think ****ty tiled background and sparkly titles. Think of a minority's myspace page."
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10-23-2012, 11:07 AM
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#102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarKnight
So there's a way to objectively determine inherent goodness? Do you agree with Ladd's take that "goodness" doesn't necessarily equate to obedience?
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Probably.
I agree with Ladd.
I realize that this is vague, sometimes simple is best. Do I need to elaborate? |
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10-23-2012, 11:40 AM
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#103
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Mind Erasure
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lost...In a Lost World
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch
Do I need to elaborate?
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Yeah, because I don't understand how "inherent goodness" can be objectively measured without determining if one's course of conduct adheres to a some sort of standard.
__________________
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it
O you who believe! Be mindful of God and give up what remains of riba if you are believers. If you do not do so, then receive a declaration of war from God and his Messenger. But if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. You do not deal unjustly and you are not dealt with unjustly
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10-23-2012, 12:03 PM
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#104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarKnight
Yeah, because I don't understand how "inherent goodness" can be objectively measured without determining if one's course of conduct adheres to a some sort of standard.
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He used the word obedience which would imply that it is not inherent in man to be good. This is a different question in my mind. Would you still like my answer? |
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10-23-2012, 12:38 PM
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#105
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bA What?!?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nasti 'Nati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chodeyg
Remember, its not a sin if you're killing for your country. Supposedly.
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In a situation where you have to kill for your country, you are also fighting for your own life. I think it could be argued that self-defense is not a sin, but that's another topic.
To expand on my comment above, I believe that man is inherently selfish. We do what is in our best interest. This lends itself to license2kill's statement that man is inherently cooperative.
In a civilized society, I believe is typically most beneficial to oneself to be cooperative with your fellow man. This is why people conform to societal norms and why some people attempt to equate "obedient" with "good". However, when it is no longer in the best interests of a man to be obedient, that man, being inherently selfish, will break the societal norms to get what he needs.
Last edited by ladd_17 : 10-23-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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