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Old 10-02-2012, 10:43 PM #43
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Originally Posted by Rampager2000 View Post
Hrmm..

My old skating rink didn't ever spray the skates down, even though we were legally supposed to. When I brought it up, I was told the disinfectant spray costs too much. Reusing mop heads for months, serving food that shouldn't have been served, etc. That was small scale ****, though. I hate to imagine what all is in my McDonalds food and **** that they cheapened up on.
Anecdotal I know, but in my experience mom and pop shops are usually a lot worse about that kind of stuff than chains like McDonalds. The person working the family owned diner has a stake in the business especially if they are the owner, so they put a bigger emphasis on saving/making money.

If you're working at a place like McDonald's you're just a peon and have no real stake in the company so you don't care about saving the store money. It doesn't matter if you have to toss ten bags of fries due to the freezer going down, because another 10 will be coming the next day anyway.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:06 PM #44
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These companies do in fact have competitors. Use them instead if you're going to throw a ***** fit about recycling practices.

Should we begin on the dishonest government practices?
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:10 PM #45
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With any regulation, we must weigh the costs and benefits of enforcing each rule. We must also realize that, who is telling the "true" side of the story is incredibly difficult, which is why I shy away from anecdotes.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:46 AM #46
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We should just put everything in the hands of the democrats, as they are the shining example of doing things "correctly" for the good of... Union members and liberal lying politicians.

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Old 10-11-2012, 05:15 PM #47
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Originally Posted by EPAPressure View Post
These companies do in fact have competitors. Use them instead if you're going to throw a ***** fit about recycling practices.

Should we begin on the dishonest government practices?
Here's the thing, what if their competitors use the same practices? We didn't know about them til that thread. Also we always discuss government here while the private sector gets this religious reverence.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:24 PM #48
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Originally Posted by chodeyg View Post

Here's the thing, what if their competitors use the same practices? We didn't know about them til that thread. Also we always discuss government here while the private sector gets this religious reverence.
So... you font think someone on the other side will make a post on Reddit? Or the company will get wind of the negative feedback of their competitor and use it against them?
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:20 PM #49
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I think you misunderstand me. These posts on reddit are sporadic anecdotal comments on the nature of corporations who fall short of their promises. I don't believe every one. Nor am I waiting for reports on the other side.

The point here is that people act like government is this amorphous thing that messes up everything in its path at the cost of taxpayers. Their stock reply is that because the private market has competition and operates at a profit, its always going to be better. The reality is that private companies are just as opaque as government, and often less accountable.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:48 PM #50
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Aww, Obama friend makes money from Obamaphones.

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Old 10-15-2012, 01:17 AM #51
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This straw-man about advocates for a free market want no regulation needs to stop. It's not "no-regulation" its government regulation.

I'm sick and tired of hearing people advocate for more government regulation when you have **** faces like Michael Taylor heading the FDA. I don't feel safer knowing a head lobbyist for Monsanto is now in charge of the FDA.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:38 AM #52
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This straw-man about advocates for a free market want no regulation needs to stop. It's not "no-regulation" its government regulation.

I'm sick and tired of hearing people advocate for more government regulation when you have **** faces like Michael Taylor heading the FDA. I don't feel safer knowing a head lobbyist for Monsanto is now in charge of the FDA.
As opposed to what, industry self-regulation?
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:02 AM #53
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This straw-man about advocates for a free market want no regulation needs to stop. It's not "no-regulation" its government regulation.

I'm sick and tired of hearing people advocate for more government regulation when you have **** faces like Michael Taylor heading the FDA. I don't feel safer knowing a head lobbyist for Monsanto is now in charge of the FDA.
Because the unregulated nutraceutical market is so much better. Buy our fake resveratrol, You'll get thin and live to 120!!

If anything the FDA is more stringent now than it was 40 years ago. Tylenol would not pass today due to liver tox. They also don't seem to mind issuing fines in the billions when pharma screws up. We're scared to death of the FDA. They're like cops. They don't always stop people from speeding, but just because they're around, you think twice before going 90 in a 35.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:25 AM #54
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Because the unregulated nutraceutical market is so much better. Buy our fake resveratrol, You'll get thin and live to 120!!
Yeah, God forbid we expect people to conduct their own research and formulate a decent idea of what they are purchasing before they buy/use it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:38 AM #55
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Yeah, God forbid we expect people to conduct their own research and formulate a decent idea of what they are purchasing before they buy/use it.
How should the general public conduct this research? According to the Internet and some work on roundworms resveratrol works great.

Thalidomide was an awesome for morning sickness, but the silly government regulators blocked it in the US.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:05 PM #56
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All I had to do was type "resveratrol" into google and got this link. I can read just the first paragraph to know that there is nothing conclusively positive about the use of said substance.

Furthermore, if I was interested in using said substance (outside of the presciption of a doctor), I would further vette the manufacturer I was getting said substance from to make sure I was actually getting what I thought I was.

It's easy to say "the government should check them out for me", that's why sheep call for more regulation. Responsible people know that they should look out for themselves, even if it's a little bit harder.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:31 PM #57
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What if I decided to make a diner that intentionally made food that got people really sick? Free market no regulation would say that after the first 10, 20, 50 people get sick and throw a fuss then my business would decline. The problem with using solely public reaction as a deterrent to immoral action is two fold. Firstly it requires people to get hurt first in order to protest. How many people would have to get cancer from a new drug before people made a fuss and pull it off the market? With proper regulation, zero people have to get hurt. Secondly, it relies on people being informed of everything they buy. That's an absurd thing to expect out of a working population when we could simply delegate that task to several regulators.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:32 PM #58
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Originally Posted by ladd_17 View Post
Furthermore, if I was interested in using said substance (outside of the presciption of a doctor), I would further vette the manufacturer I was getting said substance from to make sure I was actually getting what I thought I was.
I'm sorry, but this is arrogance of the highest order. There are millions upon millions of products in the consumer market, and to think that you, on your own accord, could possibly come up with an accurate determination as to whether any product is safe is laughable.

If you honestly think Googling a particular substance is a sufficient means for determining anything about a product or its constituent parts, then I've got a bridge in NYC to sell you. This doesn't even begin to address the absolute slap in the fact to those professionals who've devoted countless hours towards understanding particular substances; they should have just hopped on Google.

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With proper regulation, zero people have to get hurt.
This is equally as arrogant.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:14 PM #59
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I'm sorry, but this is arrogance of the highest order. There are millions upon millions of products in the consumer market, and to think that you, on your own accord, could possibly come up with an accurate determination as to whether any product is safe is laughable.

If you honestly think Googling a particular substance is a sufficient means for determining anything about a product or its constituent parts, then I've got a bridge in NYC to sell you. This doesn't even begin to address the absolute slap in the fact to those professionals who've devoted countless hours towards understanding particular substances; they should have just hopped on Google.
I see your point, but I believe you missed what I was trying to get at: no one is forcing anyone to use any of these products. If a consumer chooses to use a product when they really have no clue what they're using/consuming, any negative consequences are their own fault. (For the record, I'm specifically speaking about supplements/psuedo-pharmaceuticals here.) The FDA is too big.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:36 PM #60
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You arent making any real points here. Just spouting rhetoric. Typical of the too much regulation crowd.

You ignored assasins critical point. I can make a product full of chlorine and bleach in a fully free market, tell you it cures baldness. I don't have to say **** about what's in it. Several people have to drink it for there to be independent research.

In your fantasy world, you have to look up EVERY product you use if you care about your health and your family's health. Any new products less than a few years old, and you're on your own. Could cause cancer, no one knows cause no one looks into it except guinea pig consumers. Which would prevent consumers from trying new products, hindering the economy.

I don't know why I'm spelling this out for you, you're obviously just dumb and an idealogue.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:41 PM #61
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Every citizen having to test and look up every consumable in the market sounds like it would be really costly.

If only some sort of regulatory entity existed that could do it for us...
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:56 PM #62
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You ignored assasins critical point. I can make a product full of chlorine and bleach in a fully free market, tell you it cures baldness. I don't have to say **** about what's in it. Several people have to drink it for there to be independent research.
And... you both ignored my critical point: "no one is forcing anyone to use any of these products"

Quote:
Originally Posted by chodeyg
In your fantasy world, you have to look up EVERY product you use if you care about your health and your family's health. Any new products less than a few years old, and you're on your own. Could cause cancer, no one knows cause no one looks into it except guinea pig consumers. Which would prevent consumers from trying new products, hindering the economy.

I don't know why I'm spelling this out for you, you're obviously just dumb and an idealogue.
Yeah, you're right, I don't have a degree in biomedical engineering or a need to jump through all the bull**** hoops the FDA puts out while I'm trying to develop cool new tools for the doctors to fix you with. Here's a fun fact for you: if you doctor wants to use something, he can just write a prescription for it and use it on you, FDA be damned. Regulate it all you want and there's still a back-door.

I never said there should be no regulation, just that FDA is too big. And 'in my fantasy world' people are responsible for their own well-being, they aren't dependent upon big brother to cut up their noodles so they don't choke.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:59 PM #63
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What does "too big" mean?
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