Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-09-2012, 06:36 PM #1
firefoxx04
Up the Irons
 
firefoxx04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
firefoxx04 supports Bob Gurnsey
firefoxx04 supports DLX Technology
Vice wont build LPR pressure. Leaks and will not fire.

As the title says, i cannot get my vice to cycle. With the lpr gauge installed, starting at flush, the lpr will not build pressure. It just starts to leak when I turn the lpr screw inward.

The gauge sits at zero and the leak gets bigger as i move the screw further.

Replaced the following orings

LPR outer orings
LPR piston oring
Poppet oring
Cup seal/ poppet housing orings
race track oring

New battery

Tried regulator from my independence (both INDY and Vice regs set to 220psi with no luck.)


The LPR works because the leak wont happen until i add pressure. It sounds like its from the solenoid area. I want to say that one of the barbs or noid hoses is leaking but i cant tell because i cant air the marker up with the frame removed. I do not think the cup seal is nicked and not sealing because it felt smooth to the touch and has never been removed until today (has not leaked before either. always rock solid)

With the ram installed, i turn the lpr in until the leak starts and then i try try to dry fire but the ram does not budge. Making me think that the noid is most certainly not getting pressure.

Noid clicks when the marker is pressurized and leaking. Noid clicks when the marker is degassed as well.

Marker has a lp poppet but otherwise stock. This gun has never given us a problem in the 2 years we have had it.

Any ideas?

Thanks

~ Joe
firefoxx04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-10-2012, 12:10 AM #2
Trigger Finger
Yetipb.com
 
Trigger Finger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northampton, PA
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger is attending Decay of Nations VI
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
As the title says, i cannot get my vice to cycle. With the lpr gauge installed, starting at flush, the lpr will not build pressure. It just starts to leak when I turn the lpr screw inward.

The gauge sits at zero and the leak gets bigger as i move the screw further.

Replaced the following orings

LPR outer orings
LPR piston oring
Poppet oring
Cup seal/ poppet housing orings
race track oring

New battery

Tried regulator from my independence (both INDY and Vice regs set to 220psi with no luck.)


The LPR works because the leak wont happen until i add pressure. It sounds like its from the solenoid area. I want to say that one of the barbs or noid hoses is leaking but i cant tell because i cant air the marker up with the frame removed. I do not think the cup seal is nicked and not sealing because it felt smooth to the touch and has never been removed until today (has not leaked before either. always rock solid)

With the ram installed, i turn the lpr in until the leak starts and then i try try to dry fire but the ram does not budge. Making me think that the noid is most certainly not getting pressure.

Noid clicks when the marker is pressurized and leaking. Noid clicks when the marker is degassed as well.

Marker has a lp poppet but otherwise stock. This gun has never given us a problem in the 2 years we have had it.

Any ideas?

Thanks

~ Joe
your best bet is to air the gun up with the grip frame off of the gun so you can pinpoint where the leak is. once you find that out then we can help you easier.

also when you have the pressure tester on the gun try to fire it and see what the lpr gauge does. make sure its not spiking
__________________
Reverse Poison 2K12 Bob Long G6R
DP G3 Spec r W/ Techt Bolt Engine, VP Deuce Trigger, and a 7E OLED Board
2K2 Vert. Feed Autococker W/ CCM Pump Kit and Gat Products A/T

My Gear Bag Sale!!! Click Me!
Trigger Finger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 01:29 AM #3
D-man[WarLlamas]
Old and in the way
 
D-man[WarLlamas]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK
Annual Supporting Member
D-man[WarLlamas] posts videos on PbNation
D-man[WarLlamas] plays in the APPA beginner division
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
...It sounds like its from the solenoid area. I want to say that one of the barbs or noid hoses is leaking but i cant tell because i cant air the marker up with the frame removed...
Make sure the LPR is assembled properly.

Check that the hose from the LPR to the solenoid is properly connected. If you've recently removed the brass solenoid manifold, make sure it is properly seated and tight with good orings.

Vice manual

^^^Just in case you needed it.

-D
__________________
__________________
Jolly Green - AES
Paintball Adventure Games -- Custom Soft Ears $10 PP'd/shipped -- Soft Ear Hardware alternative


- - Buy my swagg: - - - - - - XSV Axe Pro for sale! - - -
D-man[WarLlamas] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 01:43 AM #4
DaWeekendWarrior
 
 
DaWeekendWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NorCal
I've had my vice since it came out with no problems until only recently I had to change the hoses cause they were just old and slipped right off the barb. That's all I can contribute..
__________________
RIP RAGE D2

MIAMI RAGE -It all started the the DIRTY SOUTH. RIP
DaWeekendWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 04:10 AM #5
firefoxx04
Up the Irons
 
firefoxx04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
firefoxx04 supports Bob Gurnsey
firefoxx04 supports DLX Technology
CANNOT REMOVE FRAME FROM VICE WITHOUT REMOVING HPR

LPR is assembled correctl.ly. the gun had the same problems before and after i took the lpr out.

sounds like an old hose. after replacing all those orings, nothing changed.

lets think deeper. how common is it for a noid to leak? i dont think this is the case as the noid would still function if it was getting pressure but the ram wont move and the noid clicks as if its aired off. the leak must be between the lpr housing and the noid. sounds like its near the valve making me think its from a hose or maybe a seal under the pary that the hoses connect to (right need the valve)

posting from phone, sorry if bad wording/ spelling
firefoxx04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 12:16 PM #6
Trigger Finger
Yetipb.com
 
Trigger Finger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northampton, PA
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger is attending Decay of Nations VI
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
CANNOT REMOVE FRAME FROM VICE WITHOUT REMOVING HPR

LPR is assembled correctl.ly. the gun had the same problems before and after i took the lpr out.

sounds like an old hose. after replacing all those orings, nothing changed.

lets think deeper. how common is it for a noid to leak? i dont think this is the case as the noid would still function if it was getting pressure but the ram wont move and the noid clicks as if its aired off. the leak must be between the lpr housing and the noid. sounds like its near the valve making me think its from a hose or maybe a seal under the pary that the hoses connect to (right need the valve)

posting from phone, sorry if bad wording/ spelling
damn nevermind then..... check all the hose like th guys said above and if that doesnt solve it then maybe you need to replace an oring on the solenoid piston
__________________
Reverse Poison 2K12 Bob Long G6R
DP G3 Spec r W/ Techt Bolt Engine, VP Deuce Trigger, and a 7E OLED Board
2K2 Vert. Feed Autococker W/ CCM Pump Kit and Gat Products A/T

My Gear Bag Sale!!! Click Me!
Trigger Finger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 05:56 PM #7
gamer565
*****es love cannons!
 
gamer565's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OK
Annual Supporting Member
gamer565 is playing at Living Legends VI
gamer565 is playing at Living Legends VII
gamer565 posts videos on PbNation
gamer565 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
gamer565 has achieved Level 6 in PbNation Pursuit
gamer565 is one of the top 100 posters on PbNation
gamer565 is Boss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
damn nevermind then..... check all the hose like th guys said above and if that doesnt solve it then maybe you need to replace an oring on the solenoid piston
Good luck getting the correct oring for that...

Check and make sure the bracket holding the noid down has it's orings and the orings on the body under the noid are there as well. Then make sure the noid is correctly lined up with that bracket before tighten down with a good tight snug.

Then check the brass piece with 2 barbs that, that has it's orings and is tighten down with a good snug.

You can actually remove the frame and air up the body, but Blast never released the tool to public for that...
__________________
Jolly Green (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

gamer565 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 07:00 PM #8
Trigger Finger
Yetipb.com
 
Trigger Finger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northampton, PA
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Trigger Finger is attending Decay of Nations VI
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer565 View Post
Good luck getting the correct oring for that...

Check and make sure the bracket holding the noid down has it's orings and the orings on the body under the noid are there as well. Then make sure the noid is correctly lined up with that bracket before tighten down with a good tight snug.

Then check the brass piece with 2 barbs that, that has it's orings and is tighten down with a good snug.

You can actually remove the frame and air up the body, but Blast never released the tool to public for that...
i have the correct orings because i needed them when i needed to fix my marqs solenoid.
__________________
Reverse Poison 2K12 Bob Long G6R
DP G3 Spec r W/ Techt Bolt Engine, VP Deuce Trigger, and a 7E OLED Board
2K2 Vert. Feed Autococker W/ CCM Pump Kit and Gat Products A/T

My Gear Bag Sale!!! Click Me!
Trigger Finger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 07:06 PM #9
firefoxx04
Up the Irons
 
firefoxx04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
firefoxx04 supports Bob Gurnsey
firefoxx04 supports DLX Technology
my indy can air up with frame and noid removed.

didnt get to look at it today. i work third and slept for 11 hours
firefoxx04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:05 PM #10
specopsdeath2
DANGER ZONE
 
specopsdeath2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jersey/CT
Annual Supporting Member
specopsdeath2 plays in the PSP
specopsdeath2 is an NCPA player
specopsdeath2 is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
specopsdeath2 is Legendary
specopsdeath2 is Boss
specopsdeath2 supports DLX Technology
Turned out the noid was stuck open. Got lubed and it's running fine now
__________________
Old FB
GUN SALE
Luxe Mob.
University of Hartford PC United
Proud Sponsors:
YetiPB Laysick Ninja
specopsdeath2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:21 PM #11
firefoxx04
Up the Irons
 
firefoxx04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
firefoxx04 supports Bob Gurnsey
firefoxx04 supports DLX Technology
Okay so the gun is working. Ill put it through its paces on sunday.

After replacing all lpr, valve, poppet, ram, and the little orings around the noid.. the gun still leaked whenever i tried to put pressure through the lpr.


I then started thinking about dow55 and how it swells orings. Then i though, "hmm, the gun was half cycling before it started leaking.."

then i thought, what if the noid half cycled and i degassed the marker with the noid half open? and what if the noid is stuck half open and venting air before it reaches the rammer?

Popped the noid out, took a look inside. the piston appeared to be sticking out just a tad. IT was enough for me to get tweezers on it and pull it out. it fought me the entire way but i got it. caked in dow55 of course... nice and dry. Cleaned it off and relubed with violent pb jelly (Best grease ever. All other orings greased with dow55)

Re installed the noid, rammer, bolt. Slid the bolt forward and aired the marker up. the bolt slammed back into position and dry fired a little. gave it a little more lpr and it did NOT LEAK.

with my hpr already set to 220psi or so, i went outside and gave it more lpr until it cronoed 285 ish. went back inside and checked the lpr.. above 80psi and still sealing. dropped it down to under 80psi. probably between 65-70psi.

checked the dwell and it was fine but bumped it up to 7ms.

re cronoed with the hpr this time to a 285-290 and ripped an entire pod with no issues. everything is looking good.


guess being a DP user for a while payed off, not afraid to dig into a solinoid like most users



Now my question, the owner of this gun (he is off doing military things, that is why i have had it for so long) used to say that the LP poppet liked a lpr of 60-65 and a dwell of 8ms while the stock poppet liked 70psi and 6ms dwell. what do you guys think? I dont want to spend to much time tuning it in as i rarely use it. right now it seems alright at 7ms and 70psi. it kicked more than before, still shoot good but its kinda jumpy. Brand new rammer orings probably need more pressure to move the ram.

Thanks for the ideas guys!

~ Joe
firefoxx04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:50 PM #12
gamer565
*****es love cannons!
 
gamer565's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OK
Annual Supporting Member
gamer565 is playing at Living Legends VI
gamer565 is playing at Living Legends VII
gamer565 posts videos on PbNation
gamer565 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
gamer565 has achieved Level 6 in PbNation Pursuit
gamer565 is one of the top 100 posters on PbNation
gamer565 is Boss
The lp poppet does not directly effect Lpr pressure. Should be able to leave it where it is.

Though after installing one it's best to sweet spot the regs
__________________
Jolly Green (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

gamer565 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 04:04 AM #13
firefoxx04
Up the Irons
 
firefoxx04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
firefoxx04 supports Bob Gurnsey
firefoxx04 supports DLX Technology
i cannot seem to find the sweet spot thread. not sure what the deal is with that. would like to dial my indy in with that info. ill prolly shoot the vice on stock settings until its broken in really well again.
firefoxx04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 09:06 AM #14
specopsdeath2
DANGER ZONE
 
specopsdeath2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jersey/CT
Annual Supporting Member
specopsdeath2 plays in the PSP
specopsdeath2 is an NCPA player
specopsdeath2 is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
specopsdeath2 is Legendary
specopsdeath2 is Boss
specopsdeath2 supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04
i cannot seem to find the sweet spot thread. not sure what the deal is with that. would like to dial my indy in with that info. ill prolly shoot the vice on stock settings until its broken in really well again.
It's in the stickies on how to tune a Timmy. Aka Lurkers sweet spotting method
__________________
Old FB
GUN SALE
Luxe Mob.
University of Hartford PC United
Proud Sponsors:
YetiPB Laysick Ninja
specopsdeath2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 03:12 AM #15
D-man[WarLlamas]
Old and in the way
 
D-man[WarLlamas]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK
Annual Supporting Member
D-man[WarLlamas] posts videos on PbNation
D-man[WarLlamas] plays in the APPA beginner division
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefoxx04 View Post
i cannot seem to find the sweet spot thread...
Easier to go straight to the source.

http://www.lurkerpb.com/r-d/sweetspo...r-intimidator/
__________________
__________________
Jolly Green - AES
Paintball Adventure Games -- Custom Soft Ears $10 PP'd/shipped -- Soft Ear Hardware alternative


- - Buy my swagg: - - - - - - XSV Axe Pro for sale! - - -
D-man[WarLlamas] is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump