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Old 09-22-2012, 10:46 PM #22
barrel roll
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I dont get the agg thing, but thats cool.

Was JT owned by Kee then? I remember getting the last front block assy from the factory through paintball solutions before I learned what went wrong with them.

Tadao didnt make new screens, the supplier updated their design. The screen was also used by Virtue, I think, in their OLED boards. It was also used in a lot of consumer electronics. I was never able to determine if it was the driver or the screen itself that went bad, or if the new screen will work on the board... Oh well.

Fixing them is incredibly easy. The olny thing I cant do, as of yet, is replace a one piece pump arm/ram shaft. I have to talk with some paintball machinists about that. The actual chances of that happening, assuming the operator uses tournament rates of fire, are extremely low.

Superstocks look good.
SRs got bad publicity, especially from dumb kids on this website.
Because they got ****ty publicit, not many wanted to buy them. Supply up, demand down. Lower price to increase demand.
No one makes parts (except for Alamo CityPaintball, who made a bolt. Oh yea, and the mq2 valve which was released nearly the same time... And they even sold ones with the valve already installed) because there is no need to upgrade anything on it. No on upgrades a lpr on a new PE gun, a new BL gun, a Dye gun, etc etc etc.


I do, however, wonder what stopped Sanchez Machine from making the mech conversion frontblock forthe SR.

PS if i mispelled anything, im on a tablet that hates me.
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Last edited by barrel roll : 09-22-2012 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:00 PM #23
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There are several reasons for why they became less popular, some mentioned here and some not. The economy isn't really a factor, as WGP was gone before the economy got beaten up, which was in 08. By then, WGP had been sold off by the Orrs to a group of people who didn't seem to understand their target audience as a group of tinkers who value quality milling and parts, and that would see the SR and trillies as bastardizations of what they loved. Planet Eclipse, producers of the last of the high end PLs and their source for e-frames, also had stopped making the e-frames that could potentially compete against the Ego. And the biggest factor was the change in who they competed against at their price point. For years, they had been competing against basically automags. Then the Angel and Shockers came out, which started to attack their high end market. Then you started getting the low/mid-level electro markers like the timmys, bushmasters, impulses, and most importantly, ions. When competing against all of these other markers that were in their price range, faster, simpler to understand for people with 2 second attention spans, and newer, 'more advanced', reliable (mostly) designs, it hit their market. Hard. They weren't the only ones who felt it. AGD did too. It basically killed off the high end mech market.

All that said, it's not actually dead. Empire brought back the Sniper (convertible to the autococker with a little work), CCM is doing well with their takes on the sniper, shocktech has done a limited run, and AKA revived the Merlin. The demand is still there, and people still love them.

As for prices being high, there are reasons for some of it, and some of it confounds me. I have no idea how people pull a front block off a marker, slap on a cheap pump kit, and expect it to add to the value when the parts that they pulled off are worth more. I can't answer that at all for you. And you can definitely get low end cockers on the cheap without much issue. But for the high ends, I think I get why people will pay a lot more there. People who truly value the high end cockers see them like people who collect classic cars. They're viewed as marker/art. Here's why. You cannot get milling like them on really any other marker (the meat isn't there in the milling to look as good), they aren't made anymore, they won't be made again, have a nostalgic aspect to them, are still functional for most styles of play, and are unlike anything most people will ever have anymore. I know I get a "What is that?" from at least a few people every time I take my twister or westwood to the field, even from experienced players. I can also tell you that I paid a ton for both, and would actually make money on them if I decided to sell them, that they've actually appreciated since I got them, and are still the most valuable markers on the field on every field that I've brought them on. The high ends still have high demand, little supply, and a highly devoted following.

Anyway, my 2 cents.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:53 PM #24
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Pumps are for people who cant time a cocker. Why they sell for more is beyond me. You are taking all of the upgraded parts OFF for a pump handle and think it is suddenly a $500 gun? Sorry no. I wouldnt pay more then 75% of what it would cost as a mech/electro for a pump.
Are phantoms for people thant can't tune an automag then? Your signature makes everyone dumber after each and every one of your posts.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:44 PM #25
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i hate the way the SR's look
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:12 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkapollo View Post
Pumps are for people who cant time a cocker. Why they sell for more is beyond me. You are taking all of the upgraded parts OFF for a pump handle and think it is suddenly a $500 gun? Sorry no. I wouldnt pay more then 75% of what it would cost as a mech/electro for a pump.

HAH! amen. but i disagree on the SR, i still want one. and they shoot fine enough.

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Are phantoms for people thant can't tune an automag then? Your signature makes everyone dumber after each and every one of your posts.
wat? what does a phantom have to do with a mag?

phantoms are old timey nelson tech.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:32 AM #27
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I think i heard the best answer to this when a rental kid asked the same question to my teammate and I. My teammate responded that its like a collector car, yes there may be many out there but no two are exactly the same and parts are hard to come by which makes it more fun to search around and collect the parts that you want for it. After I let him shoot my mech and pump he was hooked and asked where he can find one.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:19 AM #28
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Originally Posted by jeryzkid22 View Post
Are phantoms for people thant can't tune an automag then? Your signature makes everyone dumber after each and every one of your posts.
This from a guy who shoots a planet eclipse intimidator and PE Ion..
My comparison works because functionally the Timmy and Ego are exactly the same, and the Geo and Ion are alike.

A phantom and an automag are NOTHING alike. One is a nelson valve with a hammer, spring, and valve system, the other is a blow forward spring return spool valve with no hammer or poppet valve.
Unless you just meant that they are both an inline design, in which case, ya got me!

If my signature offends you than its reached it target audience. People who dont know the first thing about an autococker attempt to 'tune' it and screw it up.
Cant figure out how to time a cocker? Just remove all of those 'messy hard to use' parts for a bio-mechanical system of recocking.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:47 AM #29
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You do realize the sniper came out before the autococker and that most people play pump because they enjoy that style of play. I'm not offended that I have an ego though, over 220k shots thru it and I haven't had to replace anything but the rammer o-ring a few times. The following is the pic of my first sniper build and the only issue I have ever had with it was I lost the bolt in the middle of pump pandemonium a few years ago.

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Old 10-09-2012, 01:17 PM #30
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Well...some argue that an autococker is just a pump gun converted to semi. So many people feel like they are doing a great service to a 'cocker by converting it back to it's original design.


I am not one of those people. I have tried pump...and it's just not my thing. I like pneumatics on my cockers - it gives the brush something to snag on.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:00 PM #31
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Originally Posted by jeryzkid22 View Post
You do realize the sniper came out before the autococker and that most people play pump because they enjoy that style of play. I'm not offended that I have an ego though, over 220k shots thru it and I haven't had to replace anything but the rammer o-ring a few times. The following is the pic of my first sniper build and the only issue I have ever had with it was I lost the bolt in the middle of pump pandemonium a few years ago.

Im more than aware that the sniper came out first.
I am also glad that your ego has been reliable, as well as your pump, however your response is rather irrelevant to my post. I have personally grown tired of seeing beautiful mechs and electros bastardized with a pump kit because someone couldnt figure out how to time the gun properly.
However, my opinion is my opinion. If you are offended, then get some big boy pants and realize that I dont care. Im not here to appease you, or anyone else. I am free to express my thoughts and opinions on 'pumpers'.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:21 PM #32
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Im not offended, i have been playing to long to care if one person doesnt like pump players,I shoot everyone equally.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:18 PM #33
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I think that the number of people who convert their gun to a pump solely because they can't otherwise time the gun is actually very small. Most of the pump conversions posted on here seem to be, well, people who like to play pump. If you like the look of a gun but it is electric or mech then that doesn't really fit your pump style, does it? And to say that pump players must be forced to use either older markers or the few true pump guns on the market today is ridiculous when there are pump conversion kits available just for them.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:04 PM #34
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The crap about pumps are for people who can't time Cockers is just that; crap. Converting a Cocker to a pump requires no modification of the marker itself, it isn't ruining anything. If anything it is saving the markers pneumatics from abuse. A Cocker is the best quality pump you can buy for less than $150, just how it is. Cockers in general are not rare, are not expensive and are therefor ideal candidates to try out pump play. Don't like it? No worries, just toss the pneumatics back on and play semi.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:55 PM #35
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If the price for MQ valves drops, I might try MQing my pump.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:20 PM #36
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Back to the point of what is special about cockers.
First and foremost, anyone with a good interest in mechanical or pump cockers isn’t after the blistering ROF of a modern marker. IMO, most of the people rocking cockers realize they don’t have a high-tech 15 BPS+ face-mowing machine in their hands, but they don’t care.
Second, the tinker factor. Tinkering with a cocker is simply part of owning it. If one doesn’t like to tinker, they probably aren’t going to like a cocker. Granted, when setup properly, they can be left alone for years of reliable service. The only time I break down a marker is to replace something, not for the hell of it. I don’t have time to do that. Understanding how a cocker functions can allow someone to quickly diagnose the issue, fix it, and move on with life.
Third – the cocker sound. The sound signature of a cocker cycling is very distinct to cocker players. A well-tuned mechanical cocker ripping out 8-10bps is a glorious sound and gives some players wood. That cannot be beat. (the sound, not the wood)
It was asked about the price – why so high for some? Cockers, those with at least somewhat rare bodies that are undrilled and in good shape, can fetch a pretty penny simply because collectors want them and can’t find them. Sometimes it is because of rare parts or pneumatics that are installed on the marker. I’ve purchased whole markers for a single part before. Why now? I couldn’t afford some of the nice cockers when they came out. WGP markers were expensive, and some of the private label bodies were too. They are hard to come by. Now that I have a decent job, I have no issues with occasionally throwing $500 at a marker that I really want.

My current two favorite markers are my gothics.


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Old 10-09-2012, 09:30 PM #37
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jaysus, make sure you dont fall on your gun, you could be impaled
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:12 PM #38
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People who truly value the high end cockers see them like people who collect classic cars. They're viewed as marker/art.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:29 PM #39
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Third – the cocker sound. The sound signature of a cocker cycling is very distinct to cocker players. A well-tuned mechanical cocker ripping out 8-10bps is a glorious sound and gives some players wood. That cannot be beat. (the sound, not the wood)
Agreed. Best sound ever at the 1 minute mark.

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Old 10-10-2012, 04:29 AM #40
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:10 PM #41
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The crap about pumps are for people who can't time Cockers is just that; crap. Converting a Cocker to a pump requires no modification of the marker itself, it isn't ruining anything. If anything it is saving the markers pneumatics from abuse. A Cocker is the best quality pump you can buy for less than $150, just how it is. Cockers in general are not rare, are not expensive and are therefor ideal candidates to try out pump play. Don't like it? No worries, just toss the pneumatics back on and play semi.
That. The arrogance in the statement of "You only play pump because you're too stupid to time a cocker" is so thick I can hold it in my hand. The prostock I pumped and the superstock I pumped were because I like playing pump not because I lack the ability to make it run as a semi and I don't know anyone at my local field who ever converted a cocker into a pump because of that reason. Pump is a different style of game from mech. I appreciate you're proud of your technical skills darkapollo but to put others down because you don't like the style of game they play is arrogant and childish. "Stop liking what I don't like".

Cockers shoot like nothing else, one of the earlier electros I ever shot was a friend's E-bladed...I think it was an ANS cocker of some sort I don't remember the exact specs but the way that sounded and felt at high rofs was awesome. Also when I first started playing my friend's uncle had a 2000 right feed (that is currently in pieces in my house because its 3 way is shot and I think its LPR is bad too. Not sure, my friend brought it by a few years ago, told me it was leaking, and then promptly abandoned it at my house) that was the coolest thing ever.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:39 AM #42
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Why are autocockers special? Because they friggin are! They look cool, they shoot cool and they intimidate like no other. Its a back block mojo thing.

On to the next part, my favorite marker in my collection is my 2k2 sto. However, I feel the need to defend the sr with my man barrel roll. The sr has great engineering and poor manufacturing. I got mine and tore the whole thing apart and cleaned and replaced a few things. after a little tuning and patience, Holy crap. The sr is no joke, appearances aside (I like it) the marker performs like a racecar. Its fast, its light, its accurate, the board is top of the line, the frame feels amazing the trigger is great on and on. The marker shoots amazing. It's not as good as it could have or should have been, but it's like a muscle car, the parts in the gun that matter are spectacular. The fit and finish leave something to be desired, but winning always looks good....
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