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Old 10-09-2012, 01:32 PM #295
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Everyone has to start somewhere. I remember with XSV had a down year and couldn't win a point to save their lives. Dismal performances happen to all pro teams whether they are just starting out or been on the circuit for a long time.
It is a shame that there are people on this forum that come and bash a team just because it was their first tournament.
The mere fact they are willing to step up is a hell of a step. A step most d2 players are scared to even consider.
If you haven't grinded against a pro team in your life, then you don't know what you are in for.
Swizz and Phil have been grinding with the best in the NW for years. I know, because i was there, grinding along side of them. IT is not easy to move up the ranks in paintball. It is very expensive, very time consuming.
Even successful d2 teams rarely make it past d1 because of funds. We were successful (somewhat) because of the support of the Naughty Dogs, and by support i mean targets. We went all the way up to Semi Pro but life got in the way for many of us. Phil went on to be pro, along with Scott Night and some other players from our squad.
Contact can learn from their mistakes and have a better showing. Look how Uprising did.
So lets lay off the criticism and let these guys grind it out. There is nothing any of you can do to stop them, so you might as well embrace them.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:36 PM #296
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It's about integrity.

This proves that anyone with money can play "Professional" paintball. What does that say about paintball as a whole? It makes it a joke, in my opinion. The people in the top division should be the absolute best players on the planet, not players with deep pockets. Not only does it make the sport seem like a joke, but the league itself appears desperate. In what way has this team proved itself worthy to play pro? They haven't, they just cut the NPPL a check. This shows where the NPPL's priorities are. $$$$$ and not building the sport up.

I have no personal issues with this team, but I find it humorous that they have the audacity to simply bump up to the top without putting in the work.

Just my .02.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:39 PM #297
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Originally Posted by AtticaDistortion View Post
Why is everyone so up in arms about a team moving up to the "PRO" bracket...how does it effect you?.
It doesn't but it makes them feel better about their own game by bashing those that had the courage to try and make a step up.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:10 PM #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa View Post
It's about integrity.

This proves that anyone with money can play "Professional" paintball. What does that say about paintball as a whole? It makes it a joke, in my opinion. The people in the top division should be the absolute best players on the planet, not players with deep pockets. Not only does it make the sport seem like a joke, but the league itself appears desperate. In what way has this team proved itself worthy to play pro? They haven't, they just cut the NPPL a check. This shows where the NPPL's priorities are. $$$$$ and not building the sport up.

I have no personal issues with this team, but I find it humorous that they have the audacity to simply bump up to the top without putting in the work.

Just my .02.
Integrity? Name one league that has integrity. Paintball will never be taken seriously NOT because of the Leagues, but because of the sheer nature of the game. You can't follow it from the stands.
If you don't understand whats going on, who cares if you bought you spot or not.
All owners buy the spots in all sports.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:13 PM #299
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Originally Posted by undrdg View Post
Integrity? Name one league that has integrity. Paintball will never be taken seriously NOT because of the Leagues, but because of the sheer nature of the game. You can't follow it from the stands.
If you don't understand whats going on, who cares if you bought you spot or not.
All owners buy the spots in all sports.
If this is your position, then it is very unfortunate that you're involved in this sport. No progress will ever, ever be made with an attitude like that.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:31 PM #300
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I have yet to meet the player on our team with "deep pockets"........ each one of the contact players put up 500+ dollars of their own money, pooled together, to pay for entry to this event......

I agree with John in the sense that you dont have to support us to be in support of paintball, and its cool if you dont. Just make sure you support whoever is local to you, or doing something in the sport that you associate with.

We took this step for the simple fact that playing against pros in the best way to get better. We dont have any other pros in Arizona. We asked for the opportunity, we provided information on the team, its stability, ownership, and players backgrounds, and they said yes to us playing. The point was not to make anyone think less of us, or of the NPPL, it was to help grow talent in Arizona. We arent trying to say we deserve anything, or are better than anyone else. It was a decision we made as a team, that was a little beyond our means, but because of it, we have the ability to adjust and come back stronger.

It was an incredibly hard event, and we came out every point as strong as we could. We know what we need to work on, and will be during the off season!
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:35 PM #301
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Quote:
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It doesn't but it makes them feel better about their own game by bashing those that had the courage to try and make a step up.
agreed stop the complaining and just do your own thing....get over it and move on.

GOOD LUCK CONTACT!!!!
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:14 PM #302
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The difference is that he isn't trying to enter a team in the professional ranks.

There's should be a vast skill difference between a fan and a professional player. Just because I would get curb stomped at football doesn't mean I am not a fan of the NFL and would be real sad to see rank amateurs allowed to have a team. No offense to any Buffalo Bills fans. Most of us here are fans of professional paintball so of course people will make comparisons to other pro sports.

We can all support the sport without being fans of every single team. Part of the fun of watching sports is rooting for and even against teams. It doesn't mean you dislike the sport when you don't agree a specific team doesn't belong in the division. In fact, the argument could be made that you are upholding it as a pro sport by saying there should be standards.
Stomped into a 3 paragraph stupor by John.

All your points are valid, I lose. =D
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:24 PM #303
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As far as Pro teams just "showing up", what about Houston Heat?
Does letting them in make the PSP look "desperate"?

Not at all in my opinion. Does the fact that they have done well this season change this?

Why is everyone in here hating. Everyone has to start somewhere. Comparing Paintball to the NFL is outrageous, there are millions and millions of dollars backing the NFL, and a tiny fraction of that number backing paintball.

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Old 10-09-2012, 05:00 PM #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfootguy2002 View Post
As far as Pro teams just "showing up", what about Houston Heat?
Does letting them in make the PSP look "desperate"?

Not at all in my opinion. Does the fact that they have done well this season change this?

Why is everyone in here hating. Everyone has to start somewhere. Comparing Paintball to the NFL is outrageous, there are millions and millions of dollars backing the NFL, and a tiny fraction of that number backing paintball.

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Except pretty much everyone on that team has played pro for other teams.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:36 PM #305
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Originally Posted by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa View Post
If this is your position, then it is very unfortunate that you're involved in this sport. No progress will ever, ever be made with an attitude like that.
what progress are you talking about? in this country money is the driving force behind anything in business. all pro sports are money making machines and if you don't believe so, then my friend, you are living in denial.

Integrity is an impossible goal to attain. There is always someone with more integrity or less integrity than you. Its all about your moral compass, and sad to say that all moral compasses are different.

If you measure integrity by allowing a team to buy into a league instead of earning it, then you stunt the ability of the league to grow.

If you measure integrity by the fact that your team doesn't wipe, then you will always loose.

If you measure integrity by the fact that your team does not hire players from other states/countries then you have limited your success to a small pool of talent where you are locally.

As you can see, there are many levels and many interpretations for integrity.
Do not mistake clever marketing for integrity, all leagues are in it to make money. OTherwise, how can they survive?
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:42 PM #306
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Sorry if it has been explained already, but I have seen a lot of people complaining about how Contact bought their way into the Pros. Others have also been saying Heat made a similar financial maneuver.

Can somebody explain the story behind that?
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:19 PM #307
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Except pretty much everyone on that team has played pro for other teams.
So it's not they they bought in you're upset about... It's the quality if the players on the team.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:41 PM #308
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Contact is a new pro team who entered the NPPL without moving through D1 "as a team".HEAT is a new pro team that entered the NPPL (as well as PSP) without moving through D1 "as a team" They both were 0-4 at NPPL Vegas.

BUT this is where the similarities end..

(although...HEAT filled their 7 man roster with talented pros from Ironmen for the event...still went 0-4...albiet scoring more points than Contact. Just as they would be expected to..)

HEAT is a uber-team that was built by sponsors in the off season to compete in the PSP. They entered the league without playing D1. The difference is Heat is a compilation of seasoned "current" pro players from the US, the D2 Shock/Distortion boys that won Vegas last year, and some of the best Russians to ever play the game. As good as Mishka and Fedorov are I STILL feel they are underrated by most paintball fans and divisional players. ESP Mishka.

Contact is comprised of a handful of ex pros (the last 5 yrs) and D2 level players in the state.

Comparing these two teams is not exactly fair to either team because their situations are so different. That being said..nobody expected HEAT to go 0-4 last weekend. While most( even contact) expected Contact to go 0-4. Shock, CEP, etc have all done as bad in recent years...even though they worked their way up the ranks and/or are established teams.

The backlash from AZ is because certain people or teams feel that entering a team in a division in which they won't be competitive makes the state look bad and negatively reflects on the amount of skill we currently have playing in the state. Does Contact care how they make AZ look? I am sure they do.. But does that outweigh the opportunity to go play/grind against pros at the highest level of 7 man competition in the world? Prob not... what is better for Contact? The practice...what is more important to divisional AZ ballers? Image/Identity...The rest of the world could care less about local AZ drama or the state of PB in AZ and the opinions of its <20 National Divisional( currently competing in more than just PSP PHX)...players.

That being said...Contact probably should play D1 next year. If they do well it will be much more fun than getting smashed at the pro level. If they don't then they def don't need to be playing pro. Getting smashed 99.9% of the time..kills morale and leads to the dissolution of teams...

I hope they stick it out, work hard, ignore the haters, and are competitive next year no matter what division they are in.

JJ OUT

Last edited by Julio Jones : 10-09-2012 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:55 PM #309
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:02 PM #310
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I have one question to anyone ****ting on a pro team that bought their spot. Would anyone of you seriously not play pro if you were given the chance? Or would you simply say no because you weren't ready?

Contact I hope you guys end up pulling an Uprising.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:14 PM #311
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I also think CEP and Aftershock should be bumped down to PSP D1 as well, for obvious reasons.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:45 PM #312
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I just don't get why paintball doesn't do what all other pro sports do and and establish a set group of pro teams that then farm players from the other divisions. It helps to legitimize the sport, and sets an easier to recognize brand in the public's eye. This would also completely get rid of the "this team isn't ready" mentality. It would be about the players and fan loyalty to the teams and players vs all this moaning and groaning.

Of course this is all in a utopia type world where paintball actually had the budgets to pay players to move to other parts of the country. I guess this could also create the environment where those that want it most, make the move when offered a spot. Hell, with the job that I have, if I got an offer (hahahahahaha!!), it would be a tough decision to decide between money or passion.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:20 PM #313
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I just don't get why paintball doesn't do what all other pro sports do and and establish a set group of pro teams that then farm players from the other divisions. It helps to legitimize the sport, and sets an easier to recognize brand in the public's eye. This would also completely get rid of the "this team isn't ready" mentality. It would be about the players and fan loyalty to the teams and players vs all this moaning and groaning.

Of course this is all in a utopia type world where paintball actually had the budgets to pay players to move to other parts of the country. I guess this could also create the environment where those that want it most, make the move when offered a spot. Hell, with the job that I have, if I got an offer (hahahahahaha!!), it would be a tough decision to decide between money or passion.
Well, how can you both not "get why paintball doesn't...." and say it's utopian?

Either way, paintball is not ready for that, due to the distinct lack of mainstream media coverage, and subsequently money.

The "american" sports model is heavily dependent on an influx of money, which just isn't there in paintball.... we neither have the spectators or media coverage needed - and won't for years to come.

So, paintball as a sport, would be better off with a "european" model, which is centered around a club structure, and far less reliant on money.

In other words, the way forward for paintball, is building strong local organisations or "clubs", with several teams within the organisation.

Such organisations can accelerate growth in participant numbers, allow individual players to progress to the club "1st team" - and not least - help create a vibrant local tournament scene.

At national level, you need a promotion and relegation system, which allows teams to progress through the divisions, instead of constantly being cannibalized by the bigger teams.

Yes, there will always be 4-8 big pro (factory) teams, with the budget to go get players from anywhere in the world.... but that doesn't develop the sport in any way, shape or form.... they are really just marketing entities.

What does develop the sport, is strong local tournament communities, centered around fields with tournament paintball as a focus area.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:35 PM #314
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If you are on Phoenix Contact I would just ceased to read these forums. Its only bad for team success.

Any amount of negativity surrounding a new team is completely ****ing stupid. If their performance in their first event is truly evidence that they shouldn't be there you should kiss vicious, CEP, and a few other teams out there good bye.

You dont because you know that is stupid. First performances are always welcomed with "Welcome to the Pros... HA HA HA!!!" Notice that the other pro teams aren't in this forum baggin Phoenix Contact.

Why??? They have been there AND they are bigger than that and its a waste of time. And those that are so quick to bash someone who has the balls to risk embarrassment should re examine themselves and do some soul searching and see if they amount to anything more than employee of the month.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:14 AM #315
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I also think CEP and Aftershock should be bumped down to PSP D1 as well, for obvious reasons.

So AfterShock has one bad year and they should be sent to Div1? They are one of the best teams in the history of the sport.
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