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Old 10-09-2012, 01:00 PM #127
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Dammit people! Calm the **** down! We are dangerously close to pulling this thead into FULL RETARD territory. Well not on my watch. Not. On. My. Watch. *shakes fist*

Horizon charges X. Customers pay X. He's not putting a gun to anyone's head to make them pay. They can walk away at any time. If I could sell CD's for $200 a piece to people, I would do it. So would you. And there wouldn't be a damn thing wrong with it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:10 PM #128
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It's called PRICE GOUGING, man.

The problem arises when you consider the irony that this is coming from a guy who constantly whines about electronic guns (and the players who choose to use said guns), telling us that they're "killing the sport" , when his pricing tactics are a good example of what's REALLY killing the sport in many people's eyes.

That's the problem, and it's a valid argument.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:13 PM #129
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Price gouging is a sham, son. I am disappoint.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:17 PM #130
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Not really

there are several fields in Victoria. Some charge Far less than TNT.

And yet TNT is still in business...Why? Because people are willing to pay his prices to get the kind of game that his field promotes.


The gun and what it can do means nothing. It is the player's control of the gun that matters.

Easiest way to 'encourage' players to excersise fire control is to increase the price of paint.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:30 PM #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahib_Stilgar
Not really

there are several fields in Victoria. Some charge Far less than TNT.

And yet TNT is still in business...Why? Because people are willing to pay his prices to get the kind of game that his field promotes.

The gun and what it can do means nothing. It is the player's control of the gun that matters.

Easiest way to 'encourage' players to excersise fire control is to increase the price of paint.
Is he paying you to say these things in bags of paint? Because if you play there regularly I could see bankruptcy in your immediate future.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:37 PM #132
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I have played there, but currently I live on the other side of the continent.

Paint prices here are not much better. $120 at my local field for a case.

That being said, a case will last me 2 months of play...every weekend...
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:51 PM #133
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People this **** ain't rocket science. I work at a fine dining restaurant. Our average check is $80-$100 per person. Don't like the prices? There's always chilis and applebees for you. Don't like those prices? There's always taco bell and mcdonalds for you. They all serve different types of customers.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:57 PM #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger84
People this **** ain't rocket science. I work at a fine dining restaurant. Our average check is $80-$100 per person. Don't like the prices? There's always chilis and applebees for you. Don't like those prices? There's always taco bell and mcdonalds for you. They all serve different types of customers.
Completely unrelated topic. You're paying for varying qualities of food and service between the 3. Just because a field is expensive does not mean it is a quality field. The same goes for restaurants. Sometimes cheap mom and pop or "hole-in-the-wall" joints are better than some 4 or 5 star restaurant. However in the food industry normally price is directly relevant to quality.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:03 PM #135
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Originally Posted by gunslinger84 View Post
People this **** ain't rocket science. I work at a fine dining restaurant. Our average check is $80-$100 per person. Don't like the prices? There's always chilis and applebees for you. Don't like those prices? There's always taco bell and mcdonalds for you. They all serve different types of customers.
Dumbest Analogy EVER. End yourself.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:02 PM #136
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Lol
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:29 PM #137
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I wasn't making an esoteric argument. It was a cut and dried example concerning the subjectiveness of value. I'm just trying to keep the stupidity to a manageable level. Otherwise, the stupid could reach such dense levels that it forms a singularity thereby ending the universe in a blaze of cleansing fire.

But you know what? I don't care now. Go ahead. Destroy the universe. See if I care.*

*I'll be ensconced in a dyson sphere with the playboy bunnies of the late 90's**

**They're the only ones that matter. I have spoken.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:15 PM #138
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Originally Posted by SNAKESNIPER View Post
It's called PRICE GOUGING, man.
Price gouging is charging far more than normal when people have no choice but to pay the price. Two very big reasons why our price structure is not price gouging. First, people do not have to play paintball. Secondly, and more importantly, there are cheaper alternatives that people can choose. Please don't blame me if more people in our area choose to play at the field with higher paint prices.

If you want to look at it another way, players are choosing to pay a premium to play at a field where they will have a less extreme paintball experience. You can't blame people for preferring a style of play over another if it's available to them.

I happen to know that the field that charges $5/100 (our biggest competitor) has about the same income per participant than we do. Therefore, players are not saving money to play there. What they are getting is more paintball to shoot (and more paintballs shot at them). I don't begrudge them that. Maybe I should be up in arms because people are choosing to go to a field where they are shooting too many paintball. But I don't. I don't care. If that's what they like to do, they should be allowed to do it without a bunch of e-bullies telling them they are stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNAKESNIPER View Post
The problem arises when you consider the irony that this is coming from a guy who constantly whines about electronic guns (and the players who choose to use said guns), telling us that they're "killing the sport" , when his pricing tactics are a good example of what's REALLY killing the sport in many people's eyes.

That's the problem, and it's a valid argument.
If you are talking about me, when have I ever said electronic guns are killing paintball? Stop making stuff up. If I weren't a pump player now, I'm sure I would be shooting an electronic marker over mechanical. When I used to play tournament ball, I was definitely shooting an electronic marker.

Last edited by Horizon : 10-09-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:32 PM #139
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Local field is
20$ all day air and field fee 60 for a case of draxxus it's aight I guess
Classic paintball a little farther i believe is 10$ field fee and 1$ per 1k n02
15$ a bag of idk paint and I think they have a byop policy but only high grade paint and there may be a fee

Lol I had proposed a field similar to classic around in my area haha. 20$ entry and air and 15$ a bag of paint.
I just like classic's fields better than my local field haha
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:10 PM #140
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Thumbs down

Want to know what price gouging really is? Here in Quebec, Canada, the average paintball field costs 40$ for day entry, equipment, lunch and 100 paintballs.

If you want more paintballs, the cost is... wait for it... 240$ a case (cheap paint).

THAT is steal. If you want cheaper paint, you have to pay a membership fee which is about 500$ for "life". Then, it's 10$ entry and 120$ a case of cheap paint...

This is pretty much why paintball isn't popular in my region.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:20 PM #141
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Price gouging is charging far more than normal when people have no choice but to pay the price. Two very big reasons why our price structure is not price gouging. First, people do not have to play paintball. Secondly, and more importantly, there are cheaper alternatives that people can choose. Please don't blame me if more people in our area choose to play at the field with higher paint prices.
Hey, slow poke, that is exactly what you do. If they want to play paintball on your field then you are FORCING them to pay your ridiculous prices. I've tossed your prices page to a couple of my friends who own fields. Here is their reactions:

Me) "imagine if you charged the same prices that this retard charges for paint

http://www.tntpaintball.com/prices.php

$160 for a case of field paint"


Guy #1)
W

T

F

Me) "that douche bag charging $160 a case for Heat is saying it makes his field "more noob friendly"

he says charging that much makes people shoot less

every field I've been on wants you to shoot more"


Guy #1) "I would love to see his head count for a weekend and then see his returning customer head count.

My field is noob friendly because we have rule and ref on the avg force it"



Me) "jesus, if you charged as much as this idiot you would never have to work.

http://www.tntpaintball.com/prices.php

$160 for a case of field paint"


Guy #2) "Wow! That's what it was like back in the day when everybody shot autocockers . Back then it was 80 a case, and the price of gold was less than half what it is now."

Me) "that idiot is on the forums claiming that those prices make it easier for noobs

he says the higher the price, the less people spray

by the way, i got my Fireball Mountain Cocker today

its in better shape than he said, and it actually works

leaks a little, but works"


Guy #2) I can't repeat what he said about you on here without getting banned.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:33 PM #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempted View Post
Hey, slow poke, that is exactly what you do. If they want to play paintball on your field then you are FORCING them to pay your ridiculous prices. I've tossed your prices page to a couple of my friends who own fields. Here is their reactions:

Me) "imagine if you charged the same prices that this retard charges for paint

http://www.tntpaintball.com/prices.php

$160 for a case of field paint"


Guy #1)
W

T

F

Me) "that douche bag charging $160 a case for Heat is saying it makes his field "more noob friendly"

he says charging that much makes people shoot less

every field I've been on wants you to shoot more"


Guy #1) "I would love to see his head count for a weekend and then see his returning customer head count.

My field is noob friendly because we have rule and ref on the avg force it"



Me) "jesus, if you charged as much as this idiot you would never have to work.

http://www.tntpaintball.com/prices.php

$160 for a case of field paint"


Guy #2) "Wow! That's what it was like back in the day when everybody shot autocockers . Back then it was 80 a case, and the price of gold was less than half what it is now."

Me) "that idiot is on the forums claiming that those prices make it easier for noobs

he says the higher the price, the less people spray

by the way, i got my Fireball Mountain Cocker today

its in better shape than he said, and it actually works

leaks a little, but works"


Guy #2) I can't repeat what he said about you on here without getting banned.
You are taking this whole thing a bit too seriously. I'm not a fan of his pricing structure either, but the people actually spending the money are mostly adults, they can choose where they want to play.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:07 AM #143
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I just hate seeing new players being shunned away from the sport because guys like this are out to screw them. It hurts our sport.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:17 AM #144
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Originally Posted by Tempted View Post
Hey, slow poke, that is exactly what you do. If they want to play paintball on your field then you are FORCING them to pay your ridiculous prices.
Did you even read what I wrote? You seem to see and read what you want to and nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempted View Post
every field I've been on wants you to shoot more"
Is that possibly what you are stuck on? You can't understand how a fieldowner might want players to shoot less rather than more. I tell my customers, during each and every orientation that I have done for about the last 10 years (took us about a year to figure it out ourselves) that I would like to see them shoot less rather than more paintballs. That I think paintball is more fun when players are shooting less rather than more. Each and every day I see heads nodding up and down in agreement, most of them regular gear owners (first timers of course have yet to make up their mind what they like). This probably doesn't happen in your area, because it's not available because "every field I've been on wants you to shoot more" I'm starting to understand where you are coming from.

By the way, did you lead your fieldowner friends on at all to get their impartial opinion by calling that guy a "retard", "douche bag", "that idiot"? Nice touch. I have a feeling these conversations probably never even took place and you're just making this stuff up.

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Guy #1) "I would love to see his head count for a weekend and then see his returning customer head count.
It's high. Probably in the neighborhood of 75-80% of our customers on any given day these days have played with us before. I can't give you an exact number as we do not track in a database, but I do ask the question at the beginning of every orientation and that's about the percentage of hands that go up. I'm not sure how that compares to other fields.

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Originally Posted by Tempted View Post
Guy #2) "Wow! That's what it was like back in the day when everybody shot autocockers . Back then it was 80 a case, and the price of gold was less than half what it is now."
And people were only earning about half as much as they are today so the "cost" in real dollars would have been very similar, so yes, that is pretty close to what it would be like. Were you around then? Do you remember that paintball was the fastest growing extreme sport in North America then? Weird huh? I guess that pricing structure wasn't holding growth back then since growth was at a much higher rate as it is today. You didn't forget that did you? Maybe you're too young and weren't around then or maybe you haven't researched the history of our sport. One can learn a lot from history. It worked then and guess what? It still works.

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Originally Posted by Tempted View Post
[color="Blue"]Me) "that idiot is on the forums claiming that those prices make it easier for noobs
Actually it can make it more fun for anyone who prefers low volume paintball. Noob or not. Remember, we used to have very few regular gear owners when we first started out. Now it's about 40% of our customer base. Obviously it's not just likeable by noobs. But it doesn't sound like you will ever find that out in your neck of the woods because every field wants you to shoot more rather than less, as you've told us.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:18 AM #145
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I just hate seeing new players being shunned away from the sport because guys like this are out to screw them. It hurts our sport.
If a new player comes in thinking that a bag or less per day is the average, I doubt they feel they are getting screwed. I spent my first year in the game buying only a bag per outing. It definitely requires a different playing style, but a bag can be made to last all day.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:33 AM #146
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I just hate seeing new players being shunned away from the sport because guys like this are out to screw them. It hurts our sport.
Do you actually have any proof of that? You keep saying that, but what proof do you have?

I can tell you that right near the beginning of our second year in business we got sucked into a "price war" with our competitors. We lowered our prices substantially and guess what happened? Initially, exactly what YOU would expect. Attendance rose. Mostly gear owners. We saw quite a few new faces. But as expected, they didn't spend much less. They celebrated by being able to shoot more paint. So what happened? After a few months we noticed our numbers dropping. We couldn't figure it out. We had dropped our paint prices to make it cheaper for players, but our numbers were down after the initial novelty wore off. After much head scratching (and money losing), we said "**** it!" and put our paint prices back up to what they were (and still are today, to the cent). It took a few months again, but eventually attendance started to increase again. Our growth continued once again.

It was at that point where we vowed never to get caught up in another price war again and we've built up a very loyal clientele over the years. There are even many players who now are regulars at the cheaper fields (because that's the style of play they prefer), but totally praise what we are doing, because they know it's attracting more players into the local paintball scene. Knocking something you don't totally understand based on assumptions you make, but are unproven, really doesn't make you look very smart.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:07 AM #147
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If you are talking about me, when have I ever said electronic guns are killing paintball?
You say it mostly on MCB, because the old farts lap it up.

Quote:
If paintball had been what it is today when I first stepped on a field, I'm quite sure I would not have stuck with it. I realize no one here cares if that had happened or not, but my concern is that we are eliminating many, many players that would take up the sport/hobby, because it's virtually impossible for a new player to come to a paintball field and find a low intensity game anymore....I know we can't go back in time and we will never reverse things the way they are, but I feel there is value in talking about low intensity play being accessible to those who want it. It's not just about playing within the rules, it's about changing the rules, in this case restricting technology, to give others a chance play in an environment more to their liking.
Quote:
Many years ago, when I first started playing, pumps were the norm at rental fields. I fell in love with the game on my first visit. About my third visit, one of the field owner's regulars (and friend) showed up with a new fangled paintball gun that could shoot semi-auto. He must have got his paint at a really good price compared to the rest of us because he was hosing pretty hard. I, and most of the others in our group were relatively new players. Every single one of us disliked that experience and disliked going up against that player. He stopped us from playing the type of game we fell in love with and the reason were returning to the field on a fairly regular basis. We hated sitting behind a bunker, not being able to peak out, knowing we would most likely end up with three or more shots to the head.

The other regulars who joined in and played with pumps, like the rest of us, weren't a big threat (at least not to our having fun). Sure they eliminated us a lot more than we eliminated them, but at least they weren't hemorrhaging paint on our bunkers and shooting us more than once when eliminating us. They were much more tolerable than the semi-toting player.
That's for starters, care to keep playing?
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