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Old 10-05-2012, 12:35 PM #64
Infidel1
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Originally Posted by Frank101 View Post
The Congress and president seemed to be in agreement with regards to the anti-protesting bill HR 347 and NDAA. And with an executive whom actually was bound to the limitations of the Constitution, he would not have declared war without congressional approval in Libya.

We are not exactly gridlocked either, last I read, there were something like 20k+ new regulations in the last 2 years or so alone (albeit not all passed by Congress, some were the various agencies).

What good is it if we do happen to even reach that equilibrium of gridlock if we are locked into a ****ty situation of debt, poor growth prospects, and perpetual war/empire presence?

Your analysis of Republicans being reluctant to spend is quite off, they may preach fiscal conservatism from time to time, but it doesn't seem to be the case for their pet projects.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:21 PM #65
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
OK let's try this. Stepping back and away from abstract generalizations. I want you to clearly outline how total factor productivity growth explains this nations maintained affluence through a decline in domestic production.

See the problem I'm having is that Americas economic boom was due to the fact that we were also, at one point, the worlds largest producer of petroleum. It carried us to world dominance where our industry and technology boomed. I'm with you up until this point. The problem is, we are no longer that producer and the "made in the USA" tag has been replaced by various third world nations. Supported by the fact that we import many more manufactured goods than we export. When you take into consideration the fact that we have such inadequate domestic capital that we rely on foreign loans, your point is making less sense to me. America consumes more resources and more energy than any other industrial nation. How is it able to do so without its empire? I mean, we are in an almost identical boat as the British empire was before the sun set on it.

Unless I am missing something huge here, I'm not seeing what you see. Then again, one or two sentence responses from you don't reveal much of anything.
So let me get this straight, you think that because we run a current account deficit its because of our empire? why?

and what about australia then? I don't think they've ever run a CA surplus in their history. Wheres there hegemony?
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:52 PM #66
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:15 PM #67
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Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
So let me get this straight, you think that because we run a current account deficit its because of our empire? why?

and what about australia then? I don't think they've ever run a CA surplus in their history. Wheres there hegemony?
The deficit hadn't even crossed my mind, but you are correct in your constant assertion that running one does help. like it did to get Germany out of their post WW1 depression.

But that is besides the point.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:47 PM #68
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My issue with the administration right now, and republicans before them, is their ability to piss away the civil liberties and personal privacy of American citizens for the sake of "security". The patriot act should never have passed and shouldn't exist today.
Russ Feingold.
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He is a recipient of the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award, and cosponsored the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act (McCain–Feingold Act), a major piece of campaign finance reform legislation. He was the only Senator to vote against the USA PATRIOT Act during the first vote on the legislation.
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Feingold was one of 23 US senators to vote against H.J. Resolution 114, which authorized President George W. Bush to use force against Iraq in 2002.[34]
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Feingold is also a well-known advocate for reductions in pork barrel spending and corporate welfare. Citizens Against Government Waste, the Concord Coalition, and Taxpayers for Common Sense – three nonpartisan organizations dedicated to those causes – have repeatedly commended him.[24]
Feingold was elected to Congress on a promise not to accept pay raises while in office, and has so far returned over $70,000 in such raises to the U.S. Treasury.[25] In addition, he is notoriously frugal in his office's spending, and sends back the money that he does not use. In one six-month period in 1999, for example, his office received $1.787 million in appropriations and returned $145,000, a higher percentage than any other senator's office.[26] Since becoming a Senator in 1993, Feingold has returned to the U.S. Treasury $3.2 million from his office budget.[27]
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Originally Posted by Russ Feingold
I have never accepted the proposition that the gun debate is a black and white issue, a matter of 'you're with us, or you're against us.' Instead, I have followed what I believe is a moderate course, faithful to the Constitution and to the realities of modern society. I believe that the Second Amendment was not an afterthought, that it has meaning today and must be respected. I support the right to bear arms for lawful purposes — for hunting and sport and for self-protection. Millions of Americans own firearms legally and we should not take action that tells them that they are second-class citizens or that their constitutional rights are under attack. At the same time, there are actions we can and should take to protect public safety that do not infringe on constitutional rights.
(I suppose libertarians here would disagree with this position, but it seems more than reasonable to me)
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Gay and lesbian couples should be able to marry and have access to the same rights, privileges and benefits that straight couples currently enjoy. . . [In a later interview:] The proposed ban on civil unions and marriage is a mean-spirited attempt to divide Wisconsin and I indicated that it should be defeated[
And the ****head tea partiers voted him out for no reason other than he was an incumbent. I honestly believe he was the only principled and reasonable member of the senate during the last decade.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:08 PM #69
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He only kicked Obama's *** if you believe his lie after lie.
Did Obama stretch the truth?
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:56 AM #70
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And the ****head tea partiers voted him out for no reason other than he was an incumbent. I honestly believe he was the only principled and reasonable member of the senate during the last decade.
He doesn't seem all that bad (by that I mean I don't disagree with much of his stances besides HC, and a couple other minor things) but then this
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and plans to support President Barack Obama in his reelection bid in the 2012 presidential election.[73] In February 2012, it was announced that Feingold would be a co-chair for President Obama's campaign.
He was against Iraq under Bush but plans to support Obama after the active involvement in the Mid east and extending Bush Doctrine? I guess its politics and supporting the party but damn that's a tough one to reconcile IMO.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:21 PM #71
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He was against Iraq under Bush but plans to support Obama after the active involvement in the Mid east and extending Bush Doctrine? I guess its politics and supporting the party but damn that's a tough one to reconcile IMO.
How is it tough? Obama is effectively done in Iraq. Iraq is far, far, far, FAR different from "involvement in the Mid east" (read: Afghanistan), action in Afghanistan has always enjoyed far wider support among progressives than Iraq, and for good reason.

Regardless, it is not at all difficult to comprehend the idea of being against starting a fight but want to finish it in your favor if someone else starts it.

There's no way you don't see this. This is intellectual dishonesty.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:50 PM #72
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I'm referring to Obama's commitment in Afghanistan well into 2024, his involvements in Libya, Yeman, Pakistan, Uganda. I'm sure I missed some.
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"Originally posted by AlphaNeo36:
Election fraud is perfectly acceptable when it intends to keep Ron Paul out of the White House."
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:57 PM #73
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Yeah just a slight difference between invasion and that. More dishonesty. Stop.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:21 PM #74
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Nice job trying to sugarcoat Obama's war mongering.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:14 PM #75
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Yeah just a slight difference between invasion and that. More dishonesty. Stop.
What's the difference between an invasion compared to drone strikes and sanctions if the end result is the same? More civilian deaths (now about 1 in 50 deaths are actual Al-Qaeda http://www.policymic.com/articles/15...ery-50-deaths), more resentment from citizens not even involved in Al-Qaeda tend to join their ranks to fight a common enemy, in this case the US.

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In the case of Drone strikes against threats to the U.S., the Obama administration has not admitted to any civilian deaths in Pakistan since 2010. The Foundation for Fundamental Rights has initiated a law suit in the UK that asserts that one CIA Drone attacked killed 53, mostly civilians in Pakistan in 2011. Under the U.S. method of counting civilian casualties, dead females are considered unavoidable civilian casualties, legal under the doctrine of collateral damage if the combatants could not be killed in any other manner. The rising numbers of women, children, and civilian males killed are seldom taken into account.
http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2012...g-war-al-qaida
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"Originally posted by AlphaNeo36:
Election fraud is perfectly acceptable when it intends to keep Ron Paul out of the White House."
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:00 PM #76
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Originally Posted by Frank101

What's the difference between an invasion compared to drone strikes and sanctions if the end result is the same? More civilian deaths (now about 1 in 50 deaths are actual Al-Qaeda http://www.policymic.com/articles/15...ery-50-deaths), more resentment from citizens not even involved in Al-Qaeda tend to join their ranks to fight a common enemy, in this case the US.

http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2012...g-war-al-qaida
The difference is billions of US dollars spent, 4500 US troops killed, unanticipated consequences of attempting to occupy a foreign nation, and tens of thousands of US soldiers that come back maimed physically, mentally, or both.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:40 PM #77
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How is it tough? Obama is effectively done in Iraq. Iraq is far, far, far, FAR different from "involvement in the Mid east" (read: Afghanistan), action in Afghanistan has always enjoyed far wider support among progressives than Iraq, and for good reason.
Yes, having a war hawk president is only acceptable if he's a democrat.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:01 PM #78
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Yes, having a war hawk president is only acceptable if he's a democrat.
Anyone conscious for the last 10 years knows what actual war hawks look like.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:14 PM #79
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Anyone conscious for the last 10 years knows what actual war hawks look like.
Very true.

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:29 PM #80
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Originally Posted by Matt.is.back2011 View Post
The difference is billions of US dollars spent, 4500 US troops killed, unanticipated consequences of attempting to occupy a foreign nation, and tens of thousands of US soldiers that come back maimed physically, mentally, or both.
That doesn't account for the "collateral damage" of civilian casualties that ultimately lead to survivors joining the ranks of Al_Qaeda to try and kill more US. You are aware that there is an increasing trend of green on blue attacks right? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1813676.html

BTW drones aren't cheap to operate and maintain. Yes its less American lives directly in harms way, but down the road we are accumulating more animosity, resentment, and hate for bombing neighborhoods with terrible accuracy. You think people care if the US is physically occupying their country or just dropping bombs on them from unmanned US aircraft? They don't.
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"Originally posted by AlphaNeo36:
Election fraud is perfectly acceptable when it intends to keep Ron Paul out of the White House."
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