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Old 10-06-2012, 10:44 PM #106
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Originally Posted by pflfranco View Post
You don't like sex either? Referring to your sexual deviants comment.
Nothing wrong with sex. Sexual deviancy is the problem. Homosexuality, zoophilias, pedophilia, prostitution, other deranged sexual fetishes, etc.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:48 PM #107
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Nothing wrong with sex. Sexual deviancy is the problem. Homosexuality
lol were you happened to be raised in the deep south on a farm?
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:52 PM #108
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lol were you happened to be raised in the deep south on a farm?
Quite the opposite; even more ironic considering big urban environments are a hotbed for "social democracy".

In high school I used to be a very liberal and generally accepting individual. I honestly don't know what happened.

The homosexual community is without a doubt the biggest propagator of drugs, HIV, and degeneracy. There are people who go out and literally sodomize and spread the HIV virus for fun because they feel society has wronged them in some way. I suppose I respect the mature adult ones, but it's still very far from something to be proud of. The fact that some people push for adoption by gays is truly frightening. I can't help but wonder what that potential child did wrong in order to deserve 2 homosexuals for parents. It's just not fair.


But anyway, this is about alcohol.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:54 PM #109
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Quite the opposite; even more ironic considering big urban environments are a hotbed for "social democracy".

In high school I used to be a very liberal and generally accepting individual. I don't know what happened.

The homosexual community is without a doubt the biggest propagator of drugs, HIV, and degeneracy. There are people who go out and literally sodomize and spread the HIV virus for fun because they feel society has wronged them in some way.
lol I want to meet your parents. And who brainwashed you to think gay people are nothing but drug addicts and HIV spreading pieces of ****?
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:57 PM #110
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lol I want to meet your parents. And who brainwashed you to think gay people are nothing but drug addicts and HIV spreading pieces of ****?
My parents never spoke about them at all, not in any negative light.

I know that not all gays are drug addicts and HIV spreaders, but the statistics are impossible to ignore. It's the whole political correctness thing I have a problem with. Sure, I can tolerate the lifestyle but I certainly won't accept it. We're all free to make judgements based on our own observations and experiences. No sense for me to beat around the bush. Most gays I've come into contact with are just flamboyant degenerates who won't stand for anything less than someone being 100% accepting of unprotected sodomy, lest they immediately be labeled a bigot. That whole liberal "accept everyone or else you're a piece of ****" is what drives my extremism in the first place. All in all, society would be much better off without them, or at least if their sexual orientation was kept a secret.

Though I think it's important to note that just because I believe society would be more productive without homosexual influence doesn't mean I would fully support an effort to exterminate them.

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Old 10-06-2012, 10:59 PM #111
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My parents never spoke about them at all, not in any negative light.

I know that not all gays are drug addicts and HIV spreaders, but the statistics are impossible to ignore. It's the whole political correctness thing I have a problem with. Sure, I can tolerate the lifestyle but I certainly won't accept it.
1st, it's not a lifestyle. 2nd, there are ridiculous statistics about anything you want to sound ridiculous.
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:04 AM #112
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I think most addictions, including alcohol and drugs, are a choice. The physical, mental, and emotional symptoms of coming off the continuous use of those substances are not something I'd wish on anybody I care about, but with all the treatment options available these days the only reason people fail is because they don't care enough to be clean.

My dad has been addicted to drugs and alcohol almost his entire life (since he was 13, he's 53 now, so for the last 40 years). I watched him get arrested for crack cocaine possession when I was eight years old, on our first deer hunting trip. We were leaving South Carolina that day (we'd spent the night at a hotel), he got arrested for smoking crack outside of the hotel we were staying at. Then when I was 10-11 years old, he left in the middle of the night (about 1:30am) to "go to the store and get a six pack." He didn't come back until well after 11am the next morning, and I had been awake since 4am calling his cell phone, thinking he was dead because he never answered it. Turns out he was really going to a bar, then got smashed and went home with some bar skank he "used to know back in his partying days" who lived a good 40 miles away.

The man was a grade-A moron when it came to making smart choices involving illicit substances. He got arrested three years after the SC incident for cocaine possession in Tampa, and to this day he still swears the cops planted that **** in his truck. He was "taking an old friend down there to buy some" and said the cops made up a bogus story about how he ran a stop sign. Sorry, but I don't believe that ****. He's had so many DUIs he doesn't remember the total count now and because he has multiple sclerosis he's now constantly running out of his prescribed painkillers and nerve pills early on a monthly basis. He also drinks at least 4-6 beers a day and smokes like a freight train (and has since he was in middle school) and swears up and down he's not addicted to booze again, but he'll get nasty as **** if you suggest he not drink anything that day because "it helps calm his nerves." Pretty sure physical dependence = one of the pillars of addiction, *******.

Every single time he ever consumed a drug, drank alcohol, or smoked a cigarette... was a CHOICE. The first time was a choice, the last time was a choice. For some reason, he's full of excuses about the cigarettes and the beer. Always broke, yet has $12-14 a day for tall boys and cancer sticks.

I have always loved him and always will love him, and I've forgiven him for the stuff he put myself, my mom, and my grandparents through with his terrible choices, but Jesus Christ. Take some responsibility and grow up a little bit. I guarantee what will happen is he will drink, smoke, and drug himself into a Hospice bed (or some kind of nursing home/health care facility), and I (as the only child) will be left to watch my father waste away into a burned-out shell of the man I used to know and admire.

Therefore, I don't have much use for people who do those things. I've never touched drugs in my life and the last time I drank was five months ago. I don't think that makes me better than anybody else, I just know I have rampant alcoholism on both sides of my family and I refuse to put my future wife and children through ANY of that bull****... plus I just graduated the police academy. I think my experiences in dealing with him and his poor decision making skills are part of the reason I chose that career path.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:14 AM #113
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Originally Posted by paintballpimp092 View Post
I think most addictions, including alcohol and drugs, are a choice. The physical, mental, and emotional symptoms of coming off the continuous use of those substances are not something I'd wish on anybody I care about, but with all the treatment options available these days the only reason people fail is because they don't care enough to be clean.

My dad has been addicted to drugs and alcohol almost his entire life (since he was 13, he's 53 now, so for the last 40 years). I watched him get arrested for crack cocaine possession when I was eight years old, on our first deer hunting trip. We were leaving South Carolina that day (we'd spent the night at a hotel), he got arrested for smoking crack outside of the hotel we were staying at. Then when I was 10-11 years old, he left in the middle of the night (about 1:30am) to "go to the store and get a six pack." He didn't come back until well after 11am the next morning, and I had been awake since 4am calling his cell phone, thinking he was dead because he never answered it. Turns out he was really going to a bar, then got smashed and went home with some bar skank he "used to know back in his partying days" who lived a good 40 miles away.

The man was a grade-A moron when it came to making smart choices involving illicit substances. He got arrested three years after the SC incident for cocaine possession in Tampa, and to this day he still swears the cops planted that **** in his truck. He was "taking an old friend down there to buy some" and said the cops made up a bogus story about how he ran a stop sign. Sorry, but I don't believe that ****. He's had so many DUIs he doesn't remember the total count now and because he has multiple sclerosis he's now constantly running out of his prescribed painkillers and nerve pills early on a monthly basis. He also drinks at least 4-6 beers a day and smokes like a freight train (and has since he was in middle school) and swears up and down he's not addicted to booze again, but he'll get nasty as **** if you suggest he not drink anything that day because "it helps calm his nerves." Pretty sure physical dependence = one of the pillars of addiction, *******.

Every single time he ever consumed a drug, drank alcohol, or smoked a cigarette... was a CHOICE. The first time was a choice, the last time was a choice. For some reason, he's full of excuses about the cigarettes and the beer. Always broke, yet has $12-14 a day for tall boys and cancer sticks.

I have always loved him and always will love him, and I've forgiven him for the stuff he put myself, my mom, and my grandparents through with his terrible choices, but Jesus Christ. Take some responsibility and grow up a little bit. I guarantee what will happen is he will drink, smoke, and drug himself into a Hospice bed (or some kind of nursing home/health care facility), and I (as the only child) will be left to watch my father waste away into a burned-out shell of the man I used to know and admire.

Therefore, I don't have much use for people who do those things. I've never touched drugs in my life and the last time I drank was five months ago. I don't think that makes me better than anybody else, I just know I have rampant alcoholism on both sides of my family and I refuse to put my future wife and children through ANY of that bull****... plus I just graduated the police academy. I think my experiences in dealing with him and his poor decision making skills are part of the reason I chose that career path.

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Old 10-07-2012, 10:27 AM #114
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Originally Posted by paintballpimp092 View Post
I think most addictions, including alcohol and drugs, are a choice. The physical, mental, and emotional symptoms of coming off the continuous use of those substances are not something I'd wish on anybody I care about, but with all the treatment options available these days the only reason people fail is because they don't care enough to be clean.

My dad has been addicted to drugs and alcohol almost his entire life (since he was 13, he's 53 now, so for the last 40 years). I watched him get arrested for crack cocaine possession when I was eight years old, on our first deer hunting trip. We were leaving South Carolina that day (we'd spent the night at a hotel), he got arrested for smoking crack outside of the hotel we were staying at. Then when I was 10-11 years old, he left in the middle of the night (about 1:30am) to "go to the store and get a six pack." He didn't come back until well after 11am the next morning, and I had been awake since 4am calling his cell phone, thinking he was dead because he never answered it. Turns out he was really going to a bar, then got smashed and went home with some bar skank he "used to know back in his partying days" who lived a good 40 miles away.

The man was a grade-A moron when it came to making smart choices involving illicit substances. He got arrested three years after the SC incident for cocaine possession in Tampa, and to this day he still swears the cops planted that **** in his truck. He was "taking an old friend down there to buy some" and said the cops made up a bogus story about how he ran a stop sign. Sorry, but I don't believe that ****. He's had so many DUIs he doesn't remember the total count now and because he has multiple sclerosis he's now constantly running out of his prescribed painkillers and nerve pills early on a monthly basis. He also drinks at least 4-6 beers a day and smokes like a freight train (and has since he was in middle school) and swears up and down he's not addicted to booze again, but he'll get nasty as **** if you suggest he not drink anything that day because "it helps calm his nerves." Pretty sure physical dependence = one of the pillars of addiction, *******.

Every single time he ever consumed a drug, drank alcohol, or smoked a cigarette... was a CHOICE. The first time was a choice, the last time was a choice. For some reason, he's full of excuses about the cigarettes and the beer. Always broke, yet has $12-14 a day for tall boys and cancer sticks.

I have always loved him and always will love him, and I've forgiven him for the stuff he put myself, my mom, and my grandparents through with his terrible choices, but Jesus Christ. Take some responsibility and grow up a little bit. I guarantee what will happen is he will drink, smoke, and drug himself into a Hospice bed (or some kind of nursing home/health care facility), and I (as the only child) will be left to watch my father waste away into a burned-out shell of the man I used to know and admire.

Therefore, I don't have much use for people who do those things. I've never touched drugs in my life and the last time I drank was five months ago. I don't think that makes me better than anybody else, I just know I have rampant alcoholism on both sides of my family and I refuse to put my future wife and children through ANY of that bull****... plus I just graduated the police academy. I think my experiences in dealing with him and his poor decision making skills are part of the reason I chose that career path.
If you're that worried about it and it has been tearing you and your family apart for years, man the **** up and help him or get him serious help.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:10 AM #115
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not everyone who tries these drugs went through an epic battle of willpower. a lot of people who try heroin are already living rather miserable existences and doing heroin seemed like a good idea. not every addict's story involves having everything, then losing it all to the drug, lots of people have nothing to begin with.

it is true that alcoholics are weak willed when it comes to alcohol, but if you look at the the rest of their lives you will find exceptional will power in most other aspects. that's why some people graduate extremely challenging colleges, work demanding jobs, and never have a problem until they have a ddrinnk. business executives and ceos are notorious for being extremeky hard workers but then once you add alcohol into the mix their willpower to stop drinking dissolves.


it is a hard concept for someone who hasn't been there to understand. either you're an alcoholic or you're not, it is true that if you consume alcohol day in and day out you will become physically dependent regardless of whether you are an alcoholic, but the diffrence is after successfully detoxing a normal person will be able to have one drink and not develop an overwhelming (scientifically proven) psychological craving, which manifests as a physical craving if they continue to drink. this is why some people have a much easier time quitting then others with little outside help, same with the example of cigarettes. the cigarette smking parents were probably more physically dependent on nicotine then flat out addicted to it. bt that would be hard to determine unless they bought a pack and smoked for a day to see if they instantly went back to smoking.

when people are prescribed opiates by a Dr. for pain management a dependence is likely to develop, take away the opiates and they will go into withdrawal. a true addict/alcoholic's life becomes unmanageable at a rapid rate after taking a drug or drink. There are people that drink every day but live successful and fulfilling lives, then there's the alcoholic who is fully capable of leading a successful life, the difference being when they drink horrible things tend to happen.

read the big book if you want to have a better understanding of alcoholism, criticize A.A. all you want but they are the first and only movement thus far to develop a trearment protocol that provides lasting recovery. they don't provide a cure though, because a true alcoholic will never be able to successfully drink again.
Even if I wasn't kidding, there's no way in hell I'm going to read that novel.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:29 AM #116
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I want a legit discussion lets hear it.

My Point-

To whom say alcoholism is a "disease"

Alcoholism and other compulsive problems are fundamentally self destructive behavior, not an incurable illness.

AA is confusing self destructive behavior with an incurable illness, by Scientific definition behavior isn't a disease.

"There is no medical test for addiction: no brain scan or blood screening that enables a doctor to detect its presence.
And the disease model doesn’t just fail to meet scientific criteria: it doesn’t pass the common sense test, either.

Suppose an alcoholic kills a child while driving drunk. He can wave a certificate signed by every addiction specialist in the country testifying that his actions were involuntary because he has the disease of addiction. Quite rightly, it won’t make a blind bit of difference to the verdict.

But imagine that someone suffering from coronary disease has a heart attack at the wheel and kills a child. It would be outrageous to jail him. Or, to choose a less clear-cut example, what about an axe killer suffering from schizophrenia? We may feel uncomfortable that he’s sent to a secure hospital rather than to prison, but we understand why it’s appropriate: the killer’s volition was affected by a mental illness over which he had no control."
-Damian Thompson
To the original point:
I think your point is well taken. It is a function of current semantic. It is not a disease. It is currently falling into the category of a 'brain disorder'. Like the other examples given later in this discussion.

However, it would seeme that there is a strong contingent of folks advocating the reclassification as a disease and are offering varied amounts of discussion and evidence. Perhaps that what your intent was in opening up this discussion. Perhaps not, I would try to guess.

But, based on cursory queries, it is not a disease by today's definition.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:30 PM #117
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:32 PM #118
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:50 PM #119
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:53 PM #120
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:54 PM #121
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:59 PM #122
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No that one sucks.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:00 PM #123
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:01 PM #124
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No **** I can't stand rapstep.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:30 PM #125
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AA is confusing self destructive behavior with an incurable illness, by Scientific definition behavior isn't a disease.

"There is no medical test for addiction: no brain scan or blood screening that enables a doctor to detect its presence.
And the disease model doesn’t just fail to meet scientific criteria: it doesn’t pass the common sense test, either.

Suppose an alcoholic kills a child while driving drunk. He can wave a certificate signed by every addiction specialist in the country testifying that his actions were involuntary because he has the disease of addiction. Quite rightly, it won’t make a blind bit of difference to the verdict.

best thing i have heard about it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:34 AM #126
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"yeah, I don't see why he doesn't just stop"
He's done it before, there's no reason he can't do it again. He quit doing drugs, he's quite drinking before, he's quit smoking before. I'm talking for months and in the case of drinking, years at a time. It's because he's full of one thing: excuses. If you knew him, you'd understand what I'm talking about. He always has a reason why he CAN'T do something... if he spent a tenth of the energy he puts into making excuses on making an EFFORT, he'd probably be completely clean by now.

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If you're that worried about it and it has been tearing you and your family apart for years, man the **** up and help him or get him serious help.
Why should I help someone who won't help themselves? Everybody has told him the damage he's caused, but the next six pack or carton of cigarettes was more important. He's been to NA, AA, I've talked to him for hours on end about how it feels to be in my shoes and watch your father (who you only get one of in the entire world, for your whole life) make the decision to waste away every single day... none of it made a difference.

He's also the single most stubborn mother****er I've EVER met in my entire life. I'm talking, bleeding internally and refuses to go to the hospital until he had lost something like 1/6th of his blood volume, and even then swore he was fine. Drink too much? No, you just feel that way because you don't know about his struggle.

His ****ing "struggle" is and always has been almost 100% self-induced. He has ****ed himself out of jobs, relationships, and everything he worked for by being perpetually late, ineffective, and unwilling to see things from anyone else's point of view. I will give him some credit that part of that stems from his MS, which I'm probably the best in the family when it comes to dealing with that. I can tell when he's having a bad day and it's not just his attitude, but he can get ****ty real quick with you no matter what the cause.

Always complaining about being nagged but he doesn't seem to get that if he got up off his dead *** and just did whatever it was he was being asked to do, that problem would go away. That is why he's 54 years old, lives with my grandparents, has like two friends, was divorced, and can't hold a relationship with anyone (friendships included). He constantly relives "the good ol' days" when he'd run from the cops on a weekly basis, got hammered drunk and drove everywhere (regularly doing 130mph I might add), sold drugs, got in bar fights.... everything you find listed in the dictionary under "bad decisions."

Like I said, I love my dad dearly because he's the only real father I'll ever have, and I'm smart enough to not let my feelings toward his actions control my relationship with him... but he is pretty much nothing but slag. Hurts my heart to say it, but it's true.



Regardless of whether you think it's an illness or not... how is waking up every day and refusing to listen to the pleas of those who love you more than anything in the world NOT a choice? THAT is what upsets me when it comes to him. If he was making an effort to change his ways, I'd be behind him 110% and saying **** you to anybody who told him he was a piece of ****... but he's not, and he won't. Ever.
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