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Old 10-01-2012, 07:36 AM #274
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I'm not a huge fan of Democrats (they're fairly useless), but I'm finding immense pleasure in watching the GOP eat itself alive.
I'd love for the reign of NeoCons to be over swiftly, and bloodily. Though, not so bloody as to turn people from actual conservatism or republicanism... just enough to forever dissuade people from Neo-Conservatism.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:13 AM #275
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Republicanism is more tied in with neoconservatism every day. Seriously if the republican party dissolved and re formed into an actual conservative party, no whining about gays and abortions, wed finally have a better system than picking the less of the two evils.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:05 PM #276
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What do you all think the national debt will be at the end of Obama's 2nd term if he is elected again?

I say roughly $28 or $36,000,000,000,000.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:08 PM #277
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Dunno.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-r...bt-2012-9?op=1

The Bush tax cuts need to be repealed. Immediately.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:16 PM #278
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I'd love for the reign of NeoCons to be over swiftly, and bloodily. Though, not so bloody as to turn people from actual conservatism or republicanism... just enough to forever dissuade people from Neo-Conservatism.
Agreed. I'm a conservative but no longer a Republican supporter for that very reason. Actually, I basically stopped after the first year of Bush.

I keep closing my eyes, shaking my head, and just saying "It's just a nightmare. Romney can't really be saying that marriage is between only one man and one woman, his grandfather had multiple wives; he was there!!!"
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:17 PM #279
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Dunno.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-r...bt-2012-9?op=1

The Bush tax cuts need to be repealed. Immediately.
Agreed. $300 for the common man at the expense of millions for the 'job-creators' The entire thing was a joke then and is become less of one now and more of a noose.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:50 PM #280
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What do you all think the national debt will be at the end of Obama's 2nd term if he is elected again?

I say roughly $28 or $36,000,000,000,000.
Care to back that with any logic or evidence?


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Well think really hard, you all sound like senior citizens, no? …. Yea, you don’t want Obama, you don’t want Obama because he’ll get rid of your Medicare. You might as well say goodbye to it. … Yea, and I don’t know if you have done any research on Obama or not, but he is a Muslim. He has got a socialistic view on the government, economy, the whole nine yards. If he had his way, we would be a socialistic country. …. Pay attention to Fox News. If you can get out and watch that movie 2016, do so, it has a lot of really good information. Just really read the newspapers and Fox News will help you.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:50 PM #281
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Care to back that with any logic or evidence?
Well, you can easily come up with a type of time series forecast.

If I wasn't swamped with hw I would try it.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:47 PM #282
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:33 AM #283
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Care to back that with any logic or evidence?
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Well it was just a number thrown out there based off of current national debt rising and how I feel about Obama's presidency.

If we actually take a look at the rate at which the national debt is climbing, we can get a more accurate figure.

National Debt as of 10/1/08: ~$9 trillion
National Debt as of 10/1/12: ~$16 trillion

National Debt has risen $7 trillion in 4 years. We can assume if the national debt rises at the same rate with Obama being reelected it would be about $23 trillion once Obama has to leave office.

However, I believe that if reelected, Obama's policies will run the national debt up slightly faster, based off of his last 4 years. This in turn can let me add say another couple trillion giving me a grand total of about...

$23-$28 trillion.


Although if you would like to argue that Obama is somehow able to lower the rate at which the national debt increases, we can probably give an estimate to the national debt when leaving office to be around...

$19-$21 trillion.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:42 AM #284
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http://www.republicreport.org/2012/r...nathan-sproul/

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Old 10-02-2012, 01:07 AM #285
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Originally Posted by jamest91 View Post
Well it was just a number thrown out there based off of current national debt rising and how I feel about Obama's presidency.

If we actually take a look at the rate at which the national debt is climbing, we can get a more accurate figure.

National Debt as of 10/1/08: ~$9 trillion
National Debt as of 10/1/12: ~$16 trillion

National Debt has risen $7 trillion in 4 years. We can assume if the national debt rises at the same rate with Obama being reelected it would be about $23 trillion once Obama has to leave office.

However, I believe that if reelected, Obama's policies will run the national debt up slightly faster, based off of his last 4 years. This in turn can let me add say another couple trillion giving me a grand total of about...

$23-$28 trillion.
Incorrect rationale. Obama was not in office in 2008 and the deficit spike was Bush's recession deficit. The deficit has trended downward slightly throughout Obama's first term. There is no valid reason to expect a magical increase.

The CBO has the correct projections: http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43539
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:40 AM #286
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Because the fact Obama has spent more than Bush has nothing to do with it.

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:35 AM #287
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Incorrect rationale. Obama was not in office in 2008 and the deficit spike was Bush's recession deficit. The deficit has trended downward slightly throughout Obama's first term. There is no valid reason to expect a magical increase.

The CBO has the correct projections: http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43539
Uhhh duh? I was posting wat the national debt was at the end of the Bush presidency (2008). I would think you of all people here would have figured that one out gonzo.

We can also point out that the national debt was about $5 trillion when Bush took office, leaving with about $9 trillion at the end of 2008. That is a debt increase of $4-5 trillion over 8 years. Obama's first 4 years has increased debt of $7 trillion for a grand total of $16 trillion.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:14 AM #288
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Uhhh duh? I was posting wat the national debt was at the end of the Bush presidency (2008). I would think you of all people here would have figured that one out gonzo.

We can also point out that the national debt was about $5 trillion when Bush took office, leaving with about $9 trillion at the end of 2008. That is a debt increase of $4-5 trillion over 8 years. Obama's first 4 years has increased debt of $7 trillion for a grand total of $16 trillion.
Bush's policies were responsible for most if not all of the 2009 debt as well, so it's about $12T at the end of the Bush policies, the remainder coming on Obama's watch. You are basing your logic on policies, so you need to correctly identify whose policies were responsible for what debt. The Bush crash caused a HUGE amount of deficit spending in 2008-2009. That is not projected to happen again.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:37 AM #289
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It's all Bush's fault.
I haven't heard that one before.
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:08 AM #290
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One good thing about the last few presidents and congresses is that they have exposed serious flaws in our government that can be fixed if the people can ever again overcome the bureaucracy. I hope we can fix it before they succeed in killing the dollar.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:48 AM #291
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Bush's policies were responsible for most if not all of the 2009 debt as well, so it's about $12T at the end of the Bush policies, the remainder coming on Obama's watch. You are basing your logic on policies, so you need to correctly identify whose policies were responsible for what debt. The Bush crash caused a HUGE amount of deficit spending in 2008-2009. That is not projected to happen again.
US national debt in end of 2009 was $10 trillion.... which is $5-$6 trillion over 8/9 years. Democrats had control the 1st 2 years of Obama's presidency to fix anything Bush did as much as possible.

With this information we can still say 2010-2012 was still an increase of $6 trillion over 4 years.

Also, lets not forget Obama's policies with healthcare and other entitlements may make us just as bankrupt if not more(due to huge deficit already) than Europe.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:50 AM #292
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One good thing about the last few presidents and congresses is that they have exposed serious flaws in our government that can be fixed if the people can ever again overcome the bureaucracy. I hope we can fix it before they succeed in killing the dollar.
It will never be fixed. You gotta remember that most voters are complete morons and 45-47% of them will vote for whoever will give them more stuff for free... or if their ethnicity matches... or if they think one candidate is cooler than the other... etc.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:50 PM #293
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It will never be fixed. You gotta remember that most voters are complete morons and 45-47% of them will vote for whoever will give them more stuff for free... or if their ethnicity matches... or if they think one candidate is cooler than the other... etc.
And the other half vote on communist rhetoric, fear mongering by fox, and sheer delusion of false dichotomies between the "hard workers" and "lazy (colored) freeloaders". Oh don't forget baseless appeals to the founding fathers as well.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:59 PM #294
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US national debt in end of 2009 was $10 trillion.... which is $5-$6 trillion over 8/9 years. Democrats had control the 1st 2 years of Obama's presidency to fix anything Bush did as much as possible.

With this information we can still say 2010-2012 was still an increase of $6 trillion over 4 years.

Also, lets not forget Obama's policies with healthcare and other entitlements may make us just as bankrupt if not more(due to huge deficit already) than Europe.
I find it really strange how concerned with deficits you are at a time with negative real interest rates and high unemployment.
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