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Old 09-27-2012, 04:01 AM #1
learningxp
 
 
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f7 won't cycle properly after installing eigen ram and golden poppet.

Hey again!

so I finally received the items from lurker. and replaced the stock poppet and ram. but today I decided to air it up and see how it feels. well from the stock, it cycled normally, but with the ups, it took a few pulls of the trigger before the bolt would even move. When it does move, it stays in the forward position until the trigger is pulled a few times more.

I tried closing off the lpr, then opening it up while pulling the trigger, but at low pressures it leaks, high pressure it cycles the way I explained, and around mid pressure the bolt kinda vibrates the way tippmans vibrate when they're running out of co2.

I changed the battery to a fresh one to see if that might have been the problem, but it didn't change anything.

The OPR was reading 250, as per recommended by so many plus the manual.

Using a 50/45 ninja air tank.( was full at the time, wasted the air trying to get the marker to cycle properly)

All settings on the board are stock.

btw, I turned the eyes off to dry fire. pretty sure having the eyes on with paintballs will result in the same findings(only potentially messier)

If anyone can help me out I'd be grateful. Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by learningxp : 09-27-2012 at 04:04 AM. Reason: psi on opr
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:51 AM #2
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You did lube the ram right? What lube did you use? Since the stock ram works, it sounds like the new ram is sticking.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:12 AM #3
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I'm with Mr. Satan - I'm thinking either something not installed properly or the more likely cause of too much friction on the tail of the eigenram. Try a -008 o-ring on the tail of the eigenram (instead of the stock -009 o-ring).

Lastly, the recommended pressure of 250 is for the stock ram set-up. With the lighter eigenram, you willl need to increase the pressure a little to create the same kinetic energy (force) on the poppet to open fully (mass x acceleration = Force) - less mass needs more acceleration via higher air pressure. The solution many have used to negate having to up the pressure is to compress both the ram and poppet springs anywhere from 4 to 7 days.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:00 AM #4
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This is rear oring 100% of the time. best bet is swapping the ring on your stock ram over - DP is so inconsistent with the ram bore sizing on these guns.

008 or 009 may provide best results, it's honestly individual gun to gun.

Also, losing the extra 015 'assassin' mod oring can reduce drag sometimes.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:08 AM #5
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Huh sounds like a plan! Replace the back oring with a smaller one.

Um. As for lube, I've been using dye lube for pretty much everything. (Play a day then clean and relube for next day of play)

Editted: So I just got home form work, and swapped the tail orings from my stock ram to the eigen ram. the Oring from the eigen ram is slightly smaller than the stock oring. And sits/seals in the back cap a lot more than the eigen oring. I'll get some air and try it out tomorrow and post my findings.
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Last edited by learningxp : 09-28-2012 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:01 PM #6
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Fixed it. The stock boring is actually bigger than the eigenram boring, so it seems to bind a lot more, so I might swap it back. The problem was that the poppet was sticking. I pulled it out and put it back in without relubing and now it cycles. Ran outta air so I couldn't test it out with paint. Thanks for the suggestions! I had to use a pair of pliers just to get the lpr off, so I scraped it pretty bad.

I'll get it chrono'd when I play this Sunday.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:07 PM #7
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I think I kinda followed that. I don't know about the "boring" part but the golden poppet is actually getting stuck in the valve? Or was it that the golden poppet was not aligned very well sitting in the poppet spring?

I guess it doesn't matter if you got it working again.


EDIT: Oh, too late now but for future reference.....please, please invest in a strap wrench. Much more marker friendlier than a pair of pliers.
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Last edited by CA_Tectonics : 09-28-2012 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:20 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learningxp View Post
Fixed it. The stock boring is actually bigger than the eigenram boring, so it seems to bind a lot more, so I might swap it back. The problem was that the poppet was sticking. I pulled it out and put it back in without relubing and now it cycles. Ran outta air so I couldn't test it out with paint. Thanks for the suggestions! I had to use a pair of pliers just to get the lpr off, so I scraped it pretty bad.

I'll get it chrono'd when I play this Sunday.
if the poppet is sticking then just remove the oring and sand it down a little. my golden poppet wouldnt fit into the valve at all. i got the sanding idea from lurker himself because not all the fusions are the same so they will vary a little bit.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:31 AM #9
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I didn't even have to remove the oring. I reinstalled the poppet, oring and all, the same way I took it out. Now it cycles.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:56 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learningxp View Post
I didn't even have to remove the oring. I reinstalled the poppet, oring and all, the same way I took it out. Now it cycles.
well jsut try and take out the valve and the poppet. when you slide the poppet through the valve does it have any friction? if so then do what i said and sand it down just a tad so it goes through there without any friction. it will help you in the long run.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:34 AM #11
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go back to stock parts and these problems should go away.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:41 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Satan View Post
Posts before he reads rest of thread guy right here!
no hes the guy that thinks the lurker ram and poppet are junk because he cant get them to work in his gun...... like i told him before if he doesnt want them then i will take them and use them in my f8 since i know how work on my markers
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:05 PM #13
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^ Part of me wants to send them to you, but I don't wish that head ache on anyone lol... If you really want them....
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:42 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Tectonics View Post
I think I kinda followed that. I don't know about the "boring" part but the golden poppet is actually getting stuck in the valve? Or was it that the golden poppet was not aligned very well sitting in the poppet spring?

I guess it doesn't matter if you got it working again.


EDIT: Oh, too late now but for future reference.....please, please invest in a strap wrench. Much more marker friendlier than a pair of pliers.


"boring" was supposed to be "oring"...an autocorrect from my phone x.x oops. I have a strap wrench, the smallest one I can find, but the lpr is tapered pretty much the whole length of it, so the strap wouldn't hold.

Someone above said that with the lighter weight parts, I need to increase the opr. wouldn't that increase the velocity quite a lot? then having to lower the very finicky lpr. Truly is a balancing act lol

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll let you know how it turns out after sunday's walkons.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:13 PM #15
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The lpr should be all out then 3/4 of a turn in or so.

The HPR will have to be adjusted, but it wont increase your FPS it will bring them back intothe 280 range or where ever you were playing at.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:16 AM #16
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Finally someone who cleared up the mystery... that being that the HPR has nothing to do with increasing fps...I've always wondered why the manufacturers bother putting those on every paintball gun made?
just to be clear.. the HPR is the downward "handle" or "grip" on the front that reduces the tank pressure to a usable amount. That is completely necessary on all but the most basic of guns, otherwise blown internals will happen.

The LPR is jsut below the barrel and also a method of fine tuning the air pressure in smaller increments which has a direct affect on the FPS.

Both the LPR and HPR have a direct affect on the FPS. The HPR is much more drastic as it makes a larger adjustment with the same degree of turn as the LPR. But again both affect the FPS. Some guns LPR have very small noticable affect on the FPS, including the Fusions.. But shut it off and you have no air flow, so it does work.

Its been covered before but the Lurker parts are really not something that is going to allow you to reduce the HPR pressure, its more of a kick reducer or sound reducer type modification. The lighter materials needs more pressure to function properly as they dont have as much mass.

From all the fusions I have owned or worked on, (lost count but in the teens somewhere). I have never seen one that needed above 300 on the HPR gauge. Most run in the 250 - 280 stock and with mods down to 220 or so. Again this is pressure on the gauge not FPS, each gun will vary with the required pressure to get the ball to proper playale speed. The barrel, paint, etc all have an affect as well.

To repeat myself I have found the LPR to be best with roughly 3/4's of a turn in from all the way out on Fusions. The HPR needs to be turned all the way in then out slowly till about 220 on the gauge then start shooting over a chrono to get the ball to speed... also remember with the adjustment at the HPR it takes a few shots to fully affect the ball over chrono.. so adjust then blow through 5-10 balls then retest over chrono, and continue pattern until you are where you need to be.


Quote:
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You did lube the ram right? What lube did you use? Since the stock ram works, it sounds like the new ram is sticking.
Oh and I am glad to see Arston back! But I am curious if the RC hobby has been dumped in favor of PB again or if they are both being juggled..
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:25 AM #17
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Oh and I am glad to see Arston back! But I am curious if the RC hobby has been dumped in favor of PB again or if they are both being juggled..
Both are being juggled. There are no race tracks in the area anymore, I still dislike the local paint prices, but what can you do.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:46 PM #18
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Both are being juggled. There are no race tracks in the area anymore, I still dislike the local paint prices, but what can you do.
Byop outlaw ball!!
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:28 PM #19
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Byop outlaw ball!!
this.
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