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Old 09-26-2012, 10:42 PM #1
BiG MaN KemP
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DM3 problem

Try to air it up, gun leaks down the bolt/barrel while pushing the bolt to the firing/forward position. All orings lubed heavily. Have not changed orings. What do I do?
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:12 AM #2
BonesJackson
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Your internal top hat o-ring (size 013) is bad. Replace it.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:56 AM #3
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oring replaced, issue still persists. took the bolt/drive train out and left the body hollow, slowly turned air on to a slight hiss. air is filling through the rear hole on the inside of the body feeding the dump chamber, which is normal, yet no air seems to be feeding into the very front hole which should be holding the bolt back by supplying the beer can, correct?
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:08 PM #4
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Your LPR is shut off or its too low. You could also run this test I used before, take of the frame and the solenoid, shut off the LPR and air up the gun, slowly open the LPR and air should rush out of the middle hole on the solenoid manifold. If you get air coming out of that hole when your open the LPR, its your solenoid I suppose. Take it apart and clean it? http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1989013
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:24 PM #5
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I have never tried to air up the gun without the bolt I'm it. If air is coming out the face of the bolt its the oring bones said and replace it again. If its seeping out around the bolt then its orings on the front wall or beercan replace those then tune you matrix accordingly.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:11 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwhetzler View Post
I have never tried to air up the gun without the bolt I'm it. If air is coming out the face of the bolt its the oring bones said and replace it again. If its seeping out around the bolt then its orings on the front wall or beercan replace those then tune you matrix accordingly.
He doesn't mean just the bolt, he means the entire bolt system. That's actually a clever move on his part. Yeah, air is going to gush from the back hole, but he put his finger over the holes where the air comes from the noid and felt nothing.

To me this says LPR problem. Is it turned off?
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:26 PM #7
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ahh gotcha, I was in the car on my phone (wife was driving) on my way back from Ingleside Tx when I read that.

If its a PBC LPR I have issues with them constantly. The same issue, bolt sticks forward as in its not allowing air through the gun from the front end. You can try rebuilding the LPR and then setting it about a turn in from all the way in.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:38 PM #8
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Stock dye torpedo lpr. Can't really get my solenoid off (screws are stripped on the face......FML) lpr is all the way in. I've tried it at different settings and relubed it. I know the symptoms point to something simple and that I haven't been doing what I've been told to do or that I haven't done the things i've said. I have, I've tried everything really, besides sending it to bones or harju haha. What stumps the hell outta me is that the noid clicks and responds just fine... but when the air is on the bolt slams to the firing position releasing air down the bolt and the solenoid clicks but nothing that triggers a shot seeing as how the bolts already forward. Could the solenoid spool be 'stuck' in the 'firing' position maybe?

@ gwhetzler, will do. I've relubed but not rebuilt.... if its seriously my lpr piston oring............
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:45 PM #9
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No that would not be it (its possible, but Im counting on the HPR or LPR to dbe the issue), It has some thing to do with the LPR most likely. Lets do this:
Set your board settings to stock.
Turn your HPR down to the 240s in FPS range or around 200 ish PSI (hoping you have a pressure tester) then with your LPR all the way in turn it out about a 1 full turn and slowly air up the gun. Does the same thing happen?
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:55 PM #10
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Will try as soon as I get back home. I used to have a pressure tester but accidentaly blew it (long story, maybe another time) I can guesstimate for my Hpr though, got a bl that I can swap regs on to get within a window of about 20 psi. Dwell is at a comfortable 18-20 last time I had it up.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:16 PM #11
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K start there, then we (looks like Bones and I) will have a pretty good idea where you are sitting at.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:30 PM #12
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Sorry for the latent response guys. HPR around ~200 psi. LPR one turn out. Same issue.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:58 PM #13
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You havent changed orings except the smaller internal tophat oring 013 correct? If so, I want to say at this point we need to look into your LPR getting serviced. Check all the orings on the inside of your LPR to ensure that they are not knicked or cut. However I need you to be 100% that the leak is coming from the face of the bolt and not elsewhere. Check that and get back to us.

Bones if you have someting else let me know. Im running out of ideas without actually holding and seeing the marker. With the air leak coming form the face of the bolt it leads me to believe that it is the tophat oring or an oring in the LPR that is knicked or cut.

OP, worst case I know my schedule is open and I only charge for hard parts (non-orings). I wont speak for Bones about working on guns as I dont know what he has going on. But try the LPR and ensure that the orings are god in there and that the tophat small oring is a 013 and the bolt diesnot wiggle in the back of the top hat, then let us know.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:36 AM #14
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Will do. Thanks for all the help insofar, I appreciate it.

Checked a relived lpr orings, no fix. 100% sure on the leak through the bolt face
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:04 PM #15
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Ok what I would do unless Bones wants to chime in is to PM him about sending it to him. Im at a loss not being able to see the gun. The leak points to the LPR or Tophat oring but it is always easier to see and to fix when we have the gun. Im not sure where you are located at or I could point you in the direction of a local VMOT member to help you out.

I can also fix it if you want. I dont know what bones charges but I generally do it for feedback only. I.E. You pay shipping to me, I fix (dont charge for orings, but will charge for other replacement parts or you can buy them yourself), then I pay to ship it back. I have fixed 1 gun on this site being sent to me, the rest I have been able to fix via threads like this. I also fix all the players guns and rental guns at the NAS JRB Belle Chasse (New Orleans) Base Paintball field. Generally when I go through a gun I will relube with Slick Honey and tune to 280-285 FPS then send back.

Or lastly your local paintball shop can take a look at it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:17 PM #16
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Oh hey I wasn't reading this for a while.

The bolt should never 'vent' air even if it's stuck forward. It will drain the shot chamber, but the bolt is designed so that it cannot just vent air if it's forward. You know those two o-rings on the back of the bolt? The front one of those is bad. It's allowing cross contamination from the pre-dump chamber into the shot chamber. That's only a side issue, though.

The main issue is that your LPR is very unhappy. It needs to be turned up (screw inward). The Matrix's bolt system is considered a 'balanced' spool valve, but it isn't truly balanced. There is air pressure at the rear of the bolt from the HPR. The LPR counters this normally. If there is not enough pressure countering it, the bolt will jut forward and stay there. If it takes a fair bit of pressure from your finger to try and push the bolt back, your LPR ain't doing ****.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:35 PM #17
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Thanks for coming back. As I was saying its still an LPR issue for the most part. Here is another suggestion, do you have another LPR to swap out with it that you know 100% works?

That is prob why its easier for us to fix then as I know bones and I (among other) both have boxes full of spare parts for the guns.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:44 PM #18
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I do not have a spare lpr.... Yes I once considered the back two orings on the bolt bad since pressure fills the shot chamber evenly and would put pressure to the back of the bolt normally, aside from an lpr issue which is the main problem. The orings on the lpr piston seemed fine but i'll change em for shiggles and gits. Ill also change the back two orings. I think im using 009s back there. Would it be okay to step up to a 010?
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