[TheCosmikShame]

Not trying to keep this going but who cares what people prefer to call it, saying it shouldn't be called a cocker pump for that reason.. Is alot like saying it's not a sniper because it doesn't have a 3 ft barrel and a scope. It is still an autockocker STYLE marker with a pump kit instead of pneumatics. The same way it is a sniper.

[ryanhall41]

Originally Posted by TheCosmikShame

Not trying to keep this going but who cares what people prefer to call it, saying it shouldn't be called a cocker pump for that reason.. Is alot like saying it's not a sniper because it doesn't have a 3 ft barrel and a scope. It is still an autockocker STYLE marker with a pump kit instead of pneumatics. The same way it is a sniper.

I get what your saying and I dont think that what people call it matters all that much,especially because most people just refer to it as a pump, but I was just trying to clarify what Hog was saying and it's a sniper because that's what Bud called it when he first started making them, not because it looks like a sniper's rifle

[ridebmx211]

Im going to add some fuel to the fire with this counter argument.

Is "Autococker" the Name of the marker or the type of marker?

If its the NAME, which it usually is, Then it would be ok to call in an autococker pump.

If it is the type, then your points are all valid.

If you have toilet paper, and remove it from the bathroom and put it on your night stand to use as tissues. Is is still toilet paper? or do you have to call it something else now???

[ryanhall41]

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

Im going to add some fuel to the fire with this counter argument.

Is "Autococker" the Name of the marker or the type of marker?

If its the NAME, which it usually is, Then it would be ok to call in an autococker pump.

If it is the type, then your points are all valid.

If you have toilet paper, and remove it from the bathroom and put it on your night stand to use as tissues. Is is still toilet paper? or do you have to call it something else now???

It's the type of gun. Some people may argue differently but the best way that I can put it is like the dye matrix. The original dye matrix was just a called the "Dye Matrix" but since they have built off of that platform every year since the original release, now a DM is a type of marker and a DM4, dm5, dm6 etc. are the names of the actual marker.

So an Autococker is a type of gun that has Bud Orr made by putting pneumatics on a pump gun (the sniper) and now we have karnivors, prostocks, superstock, black magics, etc. and they are all types of autocockers that have individual names

[ridebmx211]

So DM doesnt stand for dye matrix??????
Are ford mustang GTs or GT500s not Mustangs anymore???

[PaulE2Cocker]

Originally Posted by ryanhall41

It's the type of gun. Some people may argue differently but the best way that I can put it is like the dye matrix. The original dye matrix was just a called the "Dye Matrix" but since they have built off of that platform every year since the original release, now a DM is a type of marker and a DM4, dm5, dm6 etc. are the names of the actual marker.

So an Autococker is a type of gun that has Bud Orr made by putting pneumatics on a pump gun (the sniper) and now we have karnivors, prostocks, superstock, black magics, etc. and they are all types of autocockers that have individual names

Ya but what do you call all the pre 2k autocockers and 2k before they were givin names superstock, karnivor, prostock they were called just autocockers. And werent the snipers just the ones he produced as pump from factory in small quanitys and not the ones converted at home

[ridebmx211]

The WGP Sniper was produced as a pump marker from the factory. Im gonna start calling halfblocked ebladed cockers, Egos since they are basically the same thing

[PaulE2Cocker]

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

The WGP Sniper was produced as a pump marker from the factory. Im gonna start calling halfblocked ebladed cockers, Egos since they are basically the same thing

[t0ph3r89]

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

Im gonna start calling halfblocked ebladed cockers, Egos since they are basically the same thing

But they're not basically the same thing.

[TheCosmikShame]

Originally Posted by ryanhall41

It's the type of gun. Some people may argue differently but the best way that I can put it is like the dye matrix. The original dye matrix was just a called the "Dye Matrix" but since they have built off of that platform every year since the original release, now a DM is a type of marker and a DM4, dm5, dm6 etc. are the names of the actual marker.

So an Autococker is a type of gun that has Bud Orr made by putting pneumatics on a pump gun (the sniper) and now we have karnivors, prostocks, superstock, black magics, etc. and they are all types of autocockers that have individual names

well put Ry

[maxearing]

wow this is a stupid argument.

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

Im gonna start calling halfblocked ebladed cockers, Egos since they are basically the same thing

I wouldn't go there, but you could call your Ego an Intimidator, or if you really want to piss off AKALMP employees, an Evil-M


On a more serious note, back to the OPs question, CCM closed down their website a few years ago and went to an Ebay factory store. Jason Chipley has been gone for quite a few years, but Bill Holstein has been doing a great job with the company since.

You can order from CCMs Ebay store, or from any of their authorized dealers.

[ridebmx211]

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

Im gonna start calling halfblocked ebladed cockers, Egos since they are basically the same thing

Obivously this was an exaggeration, the point is just because you modify a product, does not create the need for a name change.

WGP Prostock Autococker will always be a WGP prostock Autococker, regardless of what aftermarket eblade kit is added or if the pneus are all replaced with a pump kit. Adding a eblade does not make it a superstock even though you've copied it. adding a pump kit does not make it a WGP sniper or an Empire Sniper.

So You people who are creating a big deal about pump autocockers need to just give up, your wrong and no one really cares anyway.

[ridebmx211]

Im rather certain all 3 of these are the same marker. (not litterally the same but you get my point)

[ryanhall41]

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

So DM doesnt stand for dye matrix??????
Are ford mustang GTs or GT500s not Mustangs anymore???

A ford mustang is a type of car with 2 doors and a GT or GT500 is the name a of particular type of car. Ford then also has several other types of vehicles like trucks, sedans, SUV's, etc but each model has a particular name. See where i'm going here

Originally Posted by PaulE2Cocker

Ya but what do you call all the pre 2k autocockers and 2k before they were givin names superstock, karnivor, prostock they were called just autocockers. And werent the snipers just the ones he produced as pump from factory in small quanitys and not the ones converted at home

If you know autocockers then you would call them a 96, 97, 98, etc autococker because believe it or not there is more then 1 thing that was changed over the years then just a bigger banjo hole. Things like IVG threads, lug adjustment holes, different types of slider frames, rounded bottom tube corners, etc.

And there were such a thing as pump guns before semi's were invented and the sniper, sniper 2, and sniper 3 were some of them so they were massed produced in a sense. They didn't have insane number produced like newer cockers because WGP wasn't that big at the time, but they weren't just Autocockers that Bud Orr converted into a pump in his garage. That would just be stupid because these were tournament guns of they day and people weren't as concerned with the nostalgia of the "ancient pump guns" like people are today

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

The WGP Sniper was produced as a pump marker from the factory. Im gonna start calling halfblocked ebladed cockers, Egos since they are basically the same thing

Originally Posted by PaulE2Cocker

egos have internal rams and are open bolt...

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

I wouldn't go there, but you could call your Ego an Intimidator, or if you really want to piss off AKALMP employees, an Evil-M

exactly, but I would call an ego an intimidator because timmy's were produced fist.

And not that you said it but just to kill a future argument, AKA has never produced a true autococker, but they did make autococker type guns, in the sense that they never used WGP blank and they called them Vertical Loading Markers (VLM's for short) or merlins...Oh I can hear the argument now...

Originally Posted by ridebmx211

Obivously this was an exaggeration, the point is just because you modify a product, does not create the need for a name change.

WGP Prostock Autococker will always be a WGP prostock Autococker, regardless of what aftermarket eblade kit is added or if the pneus are all replaced with a pump kit. Adding a eblade does not make it a superstock even though you've copied it. adding a pump kit does not make it a WGP sniper or an Empire Sniper.

So You people who are creating a big deal about pump autocockers need to just give up, your wrong and no one really cares anyway.

Superstocks never came with eblades and what makes it a superstock and not just an electronic prostock is the slot for the eye and eye cover on the right side like the karnie's

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by ryanhall41

exactly, but I would call an ego an intimidator because timmy's were produced first

Agreed, before that were Tribals but that's about for full production stacked tube poppets with pneumatic rammers, and even then Tribals didn't use a true LPR so I wouldn't count'em.

Originally Posted by ryanhall41

And not that you said it but just to kill a future argument, AKA has never produced a true autococker, but they did make autococker type guns, in the sense that they never used WGP blank and they called them Vertical Loading Markers (VLM's for short) or merlins...Oh I can hear the argument now..

Yep, original VLMs used "Autococker" lower internals but were not made from WGP stock, and later VLMs (and other Merlins) used an 11/16 valve that WGP adopted after the K2 buyout to use on the 2k6+ Autococker unibodies (late Black Magic, JOLE, etc).

I will say this (not to start a fight) but I consider VLMs not to be "fockers" like the AIM markers, Draguns, or numerous chinese clones... They deserve their own class in my eyes, if only because they were intended to offer MORE, not the same thing but crappier at a lower price.

[ryanhall41]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Agreed, before that were Tribals but that's about for full production stacked tube poppets with pneumatic rammers, and even then Tribals didn't use a true LPR so I wouldn't count'em.



Yep, original VLMs used "Autococker" lower internals but were not made from WGP stock, and later VLMs (and other Merlins) used an 11/16 valve that WGP adopted after the K2 buyout to use on the 2k6+ Autococker unibodies (late Black Magic, JOLE, etc).

I will say this (not to start a fight) but I consider VLMs not to be "fockers" like the AIM markers, Draguns, or numerous chinese clones... They deserve their own class in my eyes, if only because they were intended to offer MORE, not the same thing but crappier at a lower price.

I agree, AKA kinda ripped off WGP buy make VLM's because at that point WGP refused to make center feed guns so AKA made their own but I think that they are one of the few knock off companies that actually produced quality products

[BKO Overdrive]

Well idk about you guys, but im gonna go build me an ego, out of cocker parts. YOU IN RYAN!!!

[skinnyfatguy]

To the original poster, I suggest trying to find shops and/or player close by that would let you try a few different set ups. While the performance of the guns mentioned doesn't vary much, the feel definitely does, which can affect your performance. The sniper has the regulator placed further forward from the frame than most CCM or WGP guns, as well as there is a major difference between frames. If you can try both 45° and 86°, slider and hinge, and single and double trigger frames and decide what feels most comfortable to you.

Originally Posted by maxearing

wow this is a stupid argument.

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

or if you really want to piss off AKALMP employees, an Evil-M

Originally Posted by ryanhall41

And not that you said it but just to kill a future argument, AKA has never produced a true autococker, but they did make autococker type guns, in the sense that they never used WGP blank and they called them Vertical Loading Markers (VLM's for short) or merlins...Oh I can hear the argument now...

Sure about that?

Originally Posted by customcockers.com

One of the most influential companies in the story of the autococker has to be a little company in Indianapolis Indiana call AKA. AKA is actually only one part of the story, but it’s the name that has come to represent the company. AKA (Aaron K. Alexander after its founding president) is actually only one aspect of the company his family founded in 1986 called LEADS Metal Products(Larry, Eileen and Daughters & Sons) to do rapid prototyping and short run machining for anything from medical to aerospace. Larry had been in the aerospace industry and his son Aaron was an Aerospace engineering graduate from Purdue University (AKA/LMP would also become a major supporter of Purdue Universities Paintball club and the NCPA) when LEADS Metal was founded.

Although Aaron started playing paintball in 1987 and formulated many of his ideas and concepts soon after, it wasn't until 1997 that LEADS Metal would really rise into paintball. That year they released their Tornado autococker valve, followed shortly after by the Javelin barrel (at the time the tightest production bore barrel) and Mighty Max expansion chamber (increased the stock cocker internal air chamber by up to 50% for low pressure use). Released to a great deal of skepticism, the tornado valve offered increases in efficiency and a lower operating pressure. With the increase in paintball operations, AKA was formed with Aaron as the president and lead designer. AKA would also release a number of variants for other markers over the next few years (including Palmers, WDP, and Kingman), although none would be as successful as the cocker package. The first true AKA cocker was the Black Widow series built to incorporate the full low pressure package to its highest potential, and although extremely short lived it served as a valuable stepping stone.

# Black Widow Autococker- $1300
# Only six of these guns were ever built
# Lightly Milled Body
# Hard Anodized and Laser Engraved
# AKALMP Tornado Valve
# AKALMP Nickel Plated Mitey-Max
# AKALMP Javelin Barrel
# AKALMP Lightning Bolt
# AKALMP Evolution Style Pull Pin
# AKALMP Custom Machined Back Block
# Custom Modified Nelson Hammer
# Black Rock Reg.
# AKALMP Custom Rock Knob
# STO Ram
# STO 4-Way
# Beavertail
# AKALMP Custom Modified Benchmark 45 Grip Frame
# Black 45 Grip Panels
# AKALMP Trigger Job
# Cutom Modified Wide Trigger Plate
# Sear (wide)
# Sear Guides
# Trigger Shoe
# Multiple Set Screws
# WGP inline reg with AKALMP Adjuster cap
# AKALMP Straight Pump Arm Rod
# AKALMP SS Cocking Rod
# Threaded Actuator Rod/Coupler w/Side Movement Lock

[IcyKoolAid]

I think I just got dumber reading this thread, you guys should totally play whos right for another 3 pages.

[Castro #66]

Here I thought it was decided years ago to refer to Cocker-style guns by their method of operation. Sniper, Cocker and E-cocker really seem like the way to go because they consider the CURRENT state of the gun. When it comes to bodies, you're allowed to say Trilogy, Karni and Merlin because they made significant changes to the family, and those bodies are often particularly unique.

Autococking guns are a different group than autocockers. This has been the case since before the autococker was made.