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Old 07-27-2012, 08:59 AM #1828
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:12 AM #1829
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Originally Posted by ProtoBaller1991 View Post
what was wrong with what I wrote? I DO think you know more about this topic, so fill me in so I can be a smarterer person. :nododgy:
The devil is in the details; the things you wrote about, when they happened, and their reasons. Nothing overtly wrong...

There were people saying blacks should not be forced into slavery ( I am an opponent of forced slavery, but think indentured servitude is ok), and with education would be no different from whites at the time of the secession from Great Britain. THE reason it wasn't outlawed from the get go was purely economic. The agricultural southern states, as deplorable as the act of slavery was, could not survive. It had something to do with the relationship of the agricultural south and the industrial north, I'd have to dive further into some books (and minds) to get all the facts on the table. That is the gist of it, culminating with the Civil War.

There were also people (same time frame) who said women should be on equal ground as men. Documented through correspondence. I think Jefferson's wife was one of them. Though, at the time, I don't think anywhere in the world women were 100% on the same level as men.

This country wasn't so much founded with a separation of church and state, but a clear and distinct rule stating that the general government will not show preference to any religion or non-religion. Rational being the majority of atrocities occurring in the past (from that point) were at the hands of men that wielded religion from a governmental position of authority. Something also to note, states were free to have official religions. In fact, many did, though they eventually came to the same conclusion as the general government. - look into your state's constitution-

With all this crap, you have to be objective and look at the situations in relation to the rest of the world at that time. Hindsight is 20/20.

In regards to homosexuals in the military -
1) gays serving is nothing new
2) Mr Conservative was quoted as saying "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight." And that guy was as much an opponent of NeoCons as he was of Socialism (and it's philosophical offshoots)
3) On my first submarine, between 02 and 05, there was an openly gay Sonar Technician. No one cared, because he did his job and his home life never interfered with the mission. He even had a crush on someone in his division, and everyone (including the guy, who was married) would poke fun. No one cared, he was one of us.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:16 AM #1830
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Originally Posted by barrel roll

The devil is in the details; the things you wrote about, when they happened, and their reasons. Nothing overtly wrong...

There were people saying blacks should not be forced into slavery ( I am an opponent of forced slavery, but think indentured servitude is ok), and with education would be no different from whites at the time of the secession from Great Britain. THE reason it wasn't outlawed from the get go was purely economic. The agricultural southern states, as deplorable as the act of slavery was, could not survive. It had something to do with the relationship of the agricultural south and the industrial north, I'd have to dive further into some books (and minds) to get all the facts on the table. That is the gist of it, culminating with the Civil War.

There were also people (same time frame) who said women should be on equal ground as men. Documented through correspondence. I think Jefferson's wife was one of them. Though, at the time, I don't think anywhere in the world women were 100% on the same level as men.

This country wasn't so much founded with a separation of church and state, but a clear and distinct rule stating that the general government will not show preference to any religion or non-religion. Rational being the majority of atrocities occurring in the past (from that point) were at the hands of men that wielded religion from a governmental position of authority. Something also to note, states were free to have official religions. In fact, many did, though they eventually came to the same conclusion as the general government. - look into your state's constitution-

With all this crap, you have to be objective and look at the situations in relation to the rest of the world at that time. Hindsight is 20/20.

In regards to homosexuals in the military -
1) gays serving is nothing new
2) Mr Conservative was quoted as saying "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight." And that guy was as much an opponent of NeoCons as he was of Socialism (and it's philosophical offshoots)
3) On my first submarine, between 02 and 05, there was an openly gay Sonar Technician. No one cared, because he did his job and his home life never interfered with the mission. He even had a crush on someone in his division, and everyone (including the guy, who was married) would poke fun. No one cared, he was one of us.
ok. thanks for typing all of that
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:40 PM #1831
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:36 PM #1832
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First, I am a fairly conservative person. I'm white, Scottish decent and Anglican. I've been a health professional for over 10 years and I am probably comfortably in the top 5% if not the top 1-2%.

Second, I do not believe for a second that people would ever 'choose' to put themselves in a situation where they are persecuted.

Sexuality & The Church

For those who are so inclined, please read up on the history of sexuality in the Roman Catholic church prior to the outbreak in the plague in Europe. Between 75-90% of the population in Europe was decimated and the Church was the sole remaining public institution, and thats when they developed the Proclomation of Procreation (my spelling may be off). Which most of our current church directions involving sexuality.

There are historical documents issued by the Vatican prior to the plague which directed that if a priest was to be married 'to a man or to a woman' that he had to have the priest from the neighbouring parrish conduct their ceremony as he would have to conduct theirs.
#1 - Priests were allowed to marry
#2 - Both males & females could marry another man

After the plague swept through repopulation was essential, so that's when sex became only for procreation and it became every Christian's duty to put more of their own on the earth.

So for those professing that they want to 'protect the sanctity of marriage', it was originally the pairing of two people, and that comes from declarations from official Vatican issued directives.
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:14 PM #1833
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Actually the idea of Marriage comes from the BIBLE, not the church...

You know, in Genesis 2.

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Adam and Eve

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Any "manipulation" by man of the definition described above is man, not God.

Notice, in verse 20 that no suitable helper was found, so God Created Eve, not Bubba... To be his helpmate and to fill the earth with their offspring.

The problem with changing the definition of marriage is that it won't stop with gays, next it will be adults wanting to marry children.

As the push is now on for us to "accept" that as well.

(warning, it is a VERY disturbing article)

http://gawker.com/5941037



This is what depravity does, it constantly degrades the morals of the society to accept sin as "ok".
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:44 PM #1834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
Actually the idea of Marriage comes from the BIBLE, not the church...

You know, in Genesis 2.

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Adam and Eve

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Any "manipulation" by man of the definition described above is man, not God.

Notice, in verse 20 that no suitable helper was found, so God Created Eve, not Bubba... To be his helpmate and to fill the earth with their offspring.

The problem with changing the definition of marriage is that it won't stop with gays, next it will be adults wanting to marry children.

As the push is now on for us to "accept" that as well.

(warning, it is a VERY disturbing article)

http://gawker.com/5941037



This is what depravity does, it constantly degrades the morals of the society to accept sin as "ok".
So by your taking YOUR version of the bible (as there have been multiple iterations translated, retranslated over two millenia) as the literal word of God:

1: Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.

2: Exodus 21:7 - I can sell my daughter

3: I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.

4: Does BBQ'ing steaks count as burning a bull on the altar as a sacrifice - Lev.1:9.

Guess what; If you truly believe in God, then His mind is unknowable by us as lesser beings. How about you try to live your life as a good person, and if God is going to judge anybody you just leave Him to do that.

If you reduce all a person is to their bedroom activity then your an *******, plain and simple.
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:19 PM #1835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin-Man View Post
So by your taking YOUR version of the bible (as there have been multiple iterations translated, retranslated over two millenia) as the literal word of God:

1: Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.

2: Exodus 21:7 - I can sell my daughter

3: I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.

4: Does BBQ'ing steaks count as burning a bull on the altar as a sacrifice - Lev.1:9.

Guess what; If you truly believe in God, then His mind is unknowable by us as lesser beings. How about you try to live your life as a good person, and if God is going to judge anybody you just leave Him to do that.

If you reduce all a person is to their bedroom activity then your an *******, plain and simple.
Amen.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:04 PM #1836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcozombie View Post
Amen.
Sorry if that was preachy, but I do have a pretty solid faith but it just blows my mind that people who claim to believe in an all-knowing, all-seeing, omnipotent God would have the balls to claim to know His mind or have the gall to sit in judgement of another human being.

How about you people that hide behind religion just step forward and admit I'm a homophobe'.

The fact that Ken LOVES Steve and wants to spend his life with him, not just has sex with him, has nothing to do with me or the fact that as a Christian it is my responsibility to Love, Honor and Cherish my chosen partner. How about you keep the sanctity of marriage alive by being a good husband/wife and loving who you are with. I've met and am friends with gay and lesbian couples that are far better wives and husbands than some of my 'Christian' friends.

How about people think about how it would be like to spend 50 years with someone, and then get kicked out of your home because your name couldn't be on the deed with your partner, because your state does not recognize you as having been married. Or how about just 10 years ago not being able to visit the person you LOVE in hospital as they died because you weren't family.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:09 PM #1837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin-Man View Post
So by your taking YOUR version of the bible (as there have been multiple iterations translated, retranslated over two millenia) as the literal word of God:

1: Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.

2: Exodus 21:7 - I can sell my daughter

3: I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.

4: Does BBQ'ing steaks count as burning a bull on the altar as a sacrifice - Lev.1:9.

Guess what; If you truly believe in God, then His mind is unknowable by us as lesser beings. How about you try to live your life as a good person, and if God is going to judge anybody you just leave Him to do that.

If you reduce all a person is to their bedroom activity then your an <del>*******</del>, plain and simple.
*starts slow clap*
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:07 PM #1838
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BIBLE
There is your problem right there, you based your whole life on a book of pure fiction with zero fact or truth in it.

Becides, yoru wrong on the Marrage thing, it is talked about in a book called the upadashads, a hindu text that predates the bible by a good thousand plus years. (the bible in fact, steals quite a number of 'books' from the hindu texts)...btw suprise I have read about every religious text I can get my hands on.

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Old 09-12-2012, 10:12 PM #1839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
Actually the idea of Marriage comes from the BIBLE, not the church...

You know, in Genesis 2.

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Adam and Eve

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Any "manipulation" by man of the definition described above is man, not God.

Notice, in verse 20 that no suitable helper was found, so God Created Eve, not Bubba... To be his helpmate and to fill the earth with their offspring.

The problem with changing the definition of marriage is that it won't stop with gays, next it will be adults wanting to marry children.

As the push is now on for us to "accept" that as well.

(warning, it is a VERY disturbing article)

http://gawker.com/5941037



This is what depravity does, it constantly degrades the morals of the society to accept sin as "ok".
Lol get the **** out of here... It's people like you that make us Americans look like dopes.

It's always funny when idiots like you compare two consenting adults who want to get married to people marrying kids, or animals...
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:46 PM #1840
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does marriage predate the bible?
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:46 PM #1841
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:48 PM #1842
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This is what depravity does, it constantly degrades the morals of the society to accept sin as "ok".
You remind me of a salafist.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:27 AM #1843
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Eagle Scouts Return Badges In Protest

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/25/157371...dge-in-protest
i didn't return mine
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:39 PM #1844
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:04 PM #1845
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i dont understand the debate about "choice vs genetic". sometimes its choice, sometimes its genetic, sometimes its both, who the **** knows, everyone is different. grouping everyone into one category is closed minded and stupid.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:54 PM #1846
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i dont understand the debate about "choice vs genetic". sometimes its choice, sometimes its genetic, sometimes its both, who the **** knows, everyone is different. grouping everyone into one category is closed minded and stupid.
You're right -- you don't understand.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:57 PM #1847
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You're right -- you don't understand.
enlighten me
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:08 PM #1848
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America was founded as a Christian nation. That is a fact, and there is tons of documentation that proves it, any walk through the capital or reading of historical texts will prove this to you.
You might want to give the Treaty of Tripoli a read.
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