Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-28-2012, 09:26 PM #1
tyronejk
titular
 
tyronejk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
tyronejk is an NCPA player
tyronejk plays in the APPA D5 division
Question Theoretical Maximum Efficiency of any Marker

This is a brief calculation of the theoretical maximum efficiency of any 0.68 cal paintball maker off a 68/4500 tank.

Feel free to correct any errors!

mass of an average paintball: 3.2 g = 0.0032 kg
300 fps = 91.44 m/s
68 cu inches = 0.0011143 cu meters
4500 psi = 31026407.8 pascals
atmospheric pressure at sea level: 101325 pA

kinetic energy of a single paintball at full velocity:
E = 0.5mv^2
= 0.5 * 0.0032 kg * 91.44^2 = 13.3780 J

stored energy in a 68/4500 tank:
E = pV
= (31026407.8 pA - 101325 pA) * 0.0011143 m^3 = 34459.820 J

number of paintballs fired from the energy in one tank:
34459.820 J / 13.3780 J = 2575.857 paintballs

=================================================

In conclusion: a marker with a bolt of zero grams, zero friction, zero internal volume (including regulators, hoses, and chambers) firing at 300 fps, at sea level, with an outdoor temperature of 0 degrees celsius or 32 degrees fahrenheit, and firing each ball with enough of a delay to allow the tank pressure to reach equilibrium in between every shot (approx. 5-10 seconds), you can get up to 2,575.857 shots!

note: The 2,576th shot will be a break.
__________________
Current markers: 2011 G6R | Empire Resurrection | Lasoya Promaster | Double-barrel Ion | PM5

Theoretical max efficiency of a marker
Automated paintball turret

Last edited by tyronejk : 08-08-2014 at 11:29 PM.
tyronejk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 08-28-2012, 11:49 PM #2
gamer565
*****es love cannons!
 
gamer565's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OK
Annual Supporting Member
gamer565 is playing at Living Legends VI
gamer565 is playing at Living Legends VII
gamer565 posts videos on PbNation
gamer565 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
gamer565 has achieved Level 6 in PbNation Pursuit
gamer565 is one of the top 100 posters on PbNation
gamer565 is Boss
You my friend need to shoot a G6R..
__________________
Jolly Green (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

gamer565 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 11:51 PM #3
gunslinger84
 
 
gunslinger84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
gunslinger84 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
gunslinger84 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
gunslinger84 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
gunslinger84 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Did you just troll me with knowledge? I wasn't aware that was even possible.
__________________
My body is a lockbox of diamonds, uranium, and assassin nobility.
gunslinger84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 12:10 AM #4
tyronejk
titular
 
tyronejk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
tyronejk is an NCPA player
tyronejk plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer565 View Post
You my friend need to shoot a G6R..
YES, I do. I will gladly take donations!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger84 View Post
Did you just troll me with knowledge? I wasn't aware that was even possible.
Nope, 100% legitimate. My calculations are posted for proofreading.
But yes, I do get that a lot.
__________________
Current markers: 2011 G6R | Empire Resurrection | Lasoya Promaster | Double-barrel Ion | PM5

Theoretical max efficiency of a marker
Automated paintball turret
tyronejk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 12:16 AM #5
gunslinger84
 
 
gunslinger84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
gunslinger84 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
gunslinger84 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
gunslinger84 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
gunslinger84 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
No, no, no. I meant that there was no way I was gonna bother checking up on that. Which makes it instant troll bait to me. But again. Not gonna check up on it. Put me in an awkward position.
__________________
My body is a lockbox of diamonds, uranium, and assassin nobility.
gunslinger84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 05:36 PM #6
OVIE
WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!
 
OVIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Britain, CT
OVIE plays in the APPA beginner division
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronejk View Post
This is a brief calculation of the theoretical maximum efficiency of any 0.68 cal paintball maker off a 68/4500 tank.

Feel free to correct any errors!

mass of an average paintball: 3.2 g = 0.0032 kg
300 fps = 91.44 m/s
68 cu inches = 0.0011143 cu meters
4500 psi = 31026407.8 pascals
atmospheric pressure at sea level: 101325 pA

kinetic energy of a single paintball at full velocity:
E = 0.5mv^2
= 0.5 * 0.0032 kg * 91.44^2 = 13.3780 J

stored energy in a 68/4500 tank:
E = pV
= (31026407.8 pA - 101325 pA) * 0.0011143 m^3 = 34459.820 J

number of paintballs fired from the energy in one tank:
34459.820 J / 13.3780 J = 2575.857 paintballs

=================================================

In conclusion: a marker with a bolt of zero grams, zero friction, zero internal volume (including regulators, hoses, and chambers) firing at 300 fps, at sea level, with an outdoor temperature of 0 degrees celsius or 32 degrees fahrenheit, and firing each ball with enough of a delay to allow the tank pressure to reach equilibrium in between every shot (approx. 5-10 seconds), you can get up to 2,575.857 shots!

note: The 2,576th shot will be a break.
This would never happen in the real world . I see no flaw in your math, but you wouldn't even have an chance to do this. The easiest thing to do would be to call it the maximum efficiency of the tank not of the actual marker as this would be more fitting.
OVIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 06:51 PM #7
tyronejk
titular
 
tyronejk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
tyronejk is an NCPA player
tyronejk plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
This would never happen in the real world . I see no flaw in your math, but you wouldn't even have an chance to do this. The easiest thing to do would be to call it the maximum efficiency of the tank not of the actual marker as this would be more fitting.
As of August 29, 2012, I cannot think of a single marker that has a mass-less bolt. Or a volume-less regulator. Or zero friction.

Also, it's a little difficult to measure the efficiency of compressed air. Calling this the maximum efficiency of a tank, rather than a marker, is similar to saying that the Prius doesn't get 55 mpg, the tank gets 55 mpg. I wish the tank on my Jaguar was as efficient as a tank on a Prius.
__________________
Current markers: 2011 G6R | Empire Resurrection | Lasoya Promaster | Double-barrel Ion | PM5

Theoretical max efficiency of a marker
Automated paintball turret
tyronejk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 10:19 PM #8
OVIE
WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!
 
OVIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Britain, CT
OVIE plays in the APPA beginner division
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronejk View Post
As of August 29, 2012, I cannot think of a single marker that has a mass-less bolt. Or a volume-less regulator. Or zero friction.

Also, it's a little difficult to measure the efficiency of compressed air. Calling this the maximum efficiency of a tank, rather than a marker, is similar to saying that the Prius doesn't get 55 mpg, the tank gets 55 mpg. I wish the tank on my Jaguar was as efficient as a tank on a Prius.
Maximum shots per tank? Its just strange calling it the maximum efficiency of a marker when there are no variables that are directly from the marker (Sure 300fps but that is to me not a significant marker variable) Once you start adding more things in such as regulators (Both tank and marker) bolt, barrel friction, bolt friction, Paint irregularities ect.

Also a missed variable is the actual working pressure of the marker, if your tank has 300 psi and your reg needs 400psi to shoot the paint, your not going to be shooting pretty much anything and thus would you consider your resulting roll out a shot?

All in all, I do like what your getting at and it does have a nice math component to paintball , just once we can get more things added we would be gods among paintball markers!

also sorry about my rant
OVIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 10:34 PM #9
tyronejk
titular
 
tyronejk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
tyronejk is an NCPA player
tyronejk plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
Maximum shots per tank? Its just strange calling it the maximum efficiency of a marker when there are no variables that are directly from the marker (Sure 300fps but that is to me not a significant marker variable) Once you start adding more things in such as regulators (Both tank and marker) bolt, barrel friction, bolt friction, Paint irregularities ect.

Also a missed variable is the actual working pressure of the marker, if your tank has 300 psi and your reg needs 400psi to shoot the paint, your not going to be shooting pretty much anything and thus would you consider your resulting roll out a shot?

All in all, I do like what your getting at and it does have a nice math component to paintball , just once we can get more things added we would be gods among paintball markers!

also sorry about my rant
Calling the number of shots a marker gets out of a tank "marker efficiency" is strange to you? Like I said before, it's equivalent to calling the mileage of a certain car. I calculated the number of shots a perfect marker could get off of one fill. Hence, "maximum marker efficiency."

And the operating pressure of the marker is irrelevant. A perfect marker will continue firing at 300 fps until the energy stored in the tank is less than the kinetic energy of a paintball moving at 300 fps. Hence the 0.857 appended to the 2575. But, you are correct in that the last ball (number 2576) will have a lower velocity (0.857*300=257.1). Thank you for your suggestions, though.
__________________
Current markers: 2011 G6R | Empire Resurrection | Lasoya Promaster | Double-barrel Ion | PM5

Theoretical max efficiency of a marker
Automated paintball turret
tyronejk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 12:28 AM #10
OVIE
WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!
 
OVIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Britain, CT
OVIE plays in the APPA beginner division
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronejk View Post
Calling the number of shots a marker gets out of a tank "marker efficiency" is strange to you? Like I said before, it's equivalent to calling the mileage of a certain car. I calculated the number of shots a perfect marker could get off of one fill. Hence, "maximum marker efficiency."

And the operating pressure of the marker is irrelevant. A perfect marker will continue firing at 300 fps until the energy stored in the tank is less than the kinetic energy of a paintball moving at 300 fps. Hence the 0.857 appended to the 2575. But, you are correct in that the last ball (number 2576) will have a lower velocity (0.857*300=257.1). Thank you for your suggestions, though.
On second thought you are correct, this marker would also be shooting perfect paintballs. Unless you chose a box got the average weight of the paintballs, they would have to be perfect in cloning as well.

On second thought I think I'm going to do that. I have nothing to do mostly tomorrow and could make an easy calculation program that takes into account the variables you set forth.

I know I may be completely wrong, but don't most guns have a pressure drop when tanks get low (I know my STBB does not sure about high end markers). As less air is in the tank the velocity of the paintball drops noticeably. (When the tank is getting low)

Finally the reason I suggested the title should be shots per tank opposed to shots per marker is most places measures shots per tank as well as, you yourself mentioned it was measuring the shots per tank....
Quote:
number of paintballs fired from the energy in one tank:
34459.820 J / 13.3780 J = 2575.857 paintballs
I know this may sound unintelligent but once you start adding specific marker variables into the equation you can call it shots per marker. I also think the correlation of the Prius tank example to the paintball tank example isn't correct. You could make argue that both tanks with the same amount of gas with the same exact engine, in the perfect world, will get the same mpg. In that sense the same 68ci(size of tank is irreverent in the gas tank example as gasoline is as liquid and doesn't expand to fill the container as in compressed air) Tank with the same 4500psi fill (gallons of gasoline in the tank) will get the same efficiency on the same gun which is true. So the tank example doesn't make any sense.

Just re-read your last reply, you measured what the tank will get, as well as the marker, so this is the perfect world of both, if the tank was actually filled to 4500 (most places don't and can't fill to exactly 4500) and if the gun was perfection with perfect balls, and weather, and wind. This is also the same way tank manufactures do their efficiency numbers, just with a lot more variables. So this is why I do believe this should be tank efficiency as this is the maximum shots you will get with the 68 4500 tank, Which is the exact same as the maximum shots a Marker can take. If you change the size of the tank ie 70ci the maximum shots will change wouldn't it? You cannot exceed the maximum shots a tank can deliver, so this is the max a tank can theoretically shoot. I think were arguring the same point here . The max shots you can get out of the tank is the max number a marker can shoot and, the max number of shots a marker can shoot is the max number the tank can supply for.

Soooooo all in all I digress. How about those MacDev Drones pretty cool looking?!?!?!?!

Last edited by OVIE : 08-30-2012 at 04:07 PM.
OVIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 09:24 PM #11
tyronejk
titular
 
tyronejk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
tyronejk is an NCPA player
tyronejk plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
On second thought you are correct, this marker would also be shooting perfect paintballs. Unless you chose a box got the average weight of the paintballs, they would have to be perfect in cloning as well.
No, you are wrong. As long as the average mass of the paintballs is 3.2 g, it doesn't matter whether the paintballs are crap. You are chronoing the IDEAL marker to 300 fps at the beginning of the test. The average velocity of all the shots will be 300 fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
On second thought I think I'm going to do that. I have nothing to do mostly tomorrow and could make an easy calculation program that takes into account the variables you set forth.
There is NO language in which writing a program to calculate this for you will be faster than punching in the 5 equations into a calculator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
I know I may be completely wrong, but don't most guns have a pressure drop when tanks get low (I know my STBB does not sure about high end markers). As less air is in the tank the velocity of the paintball drops noticeably. (When the tank is getting low)
Pressure regulators reduce air pressure. IDEAL regulators set to a certain output pressure (let's use 200 psi for now) will output 200 psi until the input pressure is less than 200 psi. Then, the IDEAL regulator will output exactly the same pressure as it's taking in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
Finally the reason I suggested the title should be shots per tank opposed to shots per marker is most places measures shots per tank as well as, you yourself mentioned it was measuring the shots per tank....
Those are estimates, which vary depending on your marker. If your marker was IDEAL, that number would be much higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
I know this may sound unintelligent but once you start adding specific marker variables into the equation you can call it shots per marker. I also think the correlation of the Prius tank example to the paintball tank example isn't correct. You could make argue that both tanks with the same amount of gas with the same exact engine, in the perfect world, will get the same mpg. In that sense the same 68ci(size of tank is irreverent in the gas tank example as gasoline is as liquid and doesn't expand to fill the container as in compressed air) Tank with the same 4500psi fill (gallons of gasoline in the tank) will get the same efficiency on the same gun which is true. So the tank example doesn't make any sense.
First of all, yes, that does sound stupid. Partially because your grammar is terrible. Secondly, a 68/4500 Crossfire and a 68/4500 Ninja hold the same amount of energy. A 20-gallon tank in a Prius and a 20-gallon tank in a Suburban have the same amount of energy. Yet, the Prius can drive further without refueling. A G6R with a 68/4500 tank can shoot more paintballs without refilling than a Luxe with a 68/4500 tank.

And yet another point at which you're wrong: gasoline is very volatile and boils at 100-400 degrees Fahrenheit. This is why the gas tanks on cars have air-tight caps. Gasoline-powered internal combustion engines are powered by the fumes of gasoline evaporating in the cylinders after it's injected in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
Just re-read your last reply, you measured what the tank will get, as well as the marker, so this is the perfect world of both, if the tank was actually filled to 4500 (most places don't and can't fill to exactly 4500) and if the gun was perfection with perfect balls, and weather, and wind. This is also the same way tank manufactures do their efficiency numbers, just with a lot more variables. So this is why I do believe this should be tank efficiency as this is the maximum shots you will get with the 68 4500 tank, Which is the exact same as the maximum shots a Marker can take. If you change the size of the tank ie 70ci the maximum shots will change wouldn't it? You cannot exceed the maximum shots a tank can deliver, so this is the max a tank can theoretically shoot.
Believe it or not, there is a reason why I specified a 68/4500 tank. Because it is a 68 cu inch tank filled to 4500 psi. And, I find myself repeating this, you cannot measure the efficiency of a tank. All 68/4500 tanks hold the same energy when filled to 4500 psi. An IDEAL marker can shoot more shots out of a 68/4500 than a real marker using the same exact tank. All 68/4500 tanks store and output the same amount of energy. The number of shots you get out of one depends on the EFFICIENCY OF THE MARKER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVIE View Post
I think were arguring the same point here . The max shots you can get out of the tank is the max number a marker can shoot and, the max number of shots a marker can shoot is the max number the tank can supply for.

Soooooo all in all I digress. How about those MacDev Drones pretty cool looking?!?!?!?!
Yeah, good job trying to change the topic and cover your broken ***. But, you should've done that 3 posts ago. Before you reply (I know you will), please ask your mom to check your grammar and your facts so you don't keep spewing sh*t in my thread.
__________________
Current markers: 2011 G6R | Empire Resurrection | Lasoya Promaster | Double-barrel Ion | PM5

Theoretical max efficiency of a marker
Automated paintball turret
tyronejk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 10:45 PM #12
Michael0196
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Frisco
You guys should come shoot my supercharged victory. Prolly 1400 balls on a tank. Not that you should ever need that much though haha
Michael0196 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012, 02:03 AM #13
FyReFiTe051
 
 
FyReFiTe051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Jose
 has been a member for 10 years
FyReFiTe051 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
FyReFiTe051 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
FyReFiTe051 supports DLX Technology
__________________
: Victory : Alias : 14" Deadlywind Fibur Barrel w/ Freak Inserts : V3 Dye Rotor : Ninja Ghost 50/4500 LP :
FyReFiTe051 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012, 11:43 PM #14
OVIE
WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!
 
OVIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Britain, CT
OVIE plays in the APPA beginner division
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronejk View Post
No, you are wrong. As long as the average mass of the paintballs is 3.2 g, it doesn't matter whether the paintballs are crap. You are chronoing the IDEAL marker to 300 fps at the beginning of the test. The average velocity of all the shots will be 300 fps.



There is NO language in which writing a program to calculate this for you will be faster than punching in the 5 equations into a calculator.



Pressure regulators reduce air pressure. IDEAL regulators set to a certain output pressure (let's use 200 psi for now) will output 200 psi until the input pressure is less than 200 psi. Then, the IDEAL regulator will output exactly the same pressure as it's taking in.



Those are estimates, which vary depending on your marker. If your marker was IDEAL, that number would be much higher.



First of all, yes, that does sound stupid. Partially because your grammar is terrible. Secondly, a 68/4500 Crossfire and a 68/4500 Ninja hold the same amount of energy. A 20-gallon tank in a Prius and a 20-gallon tank in a Suburban have the same amount of energy. Yet, the Prius can drive further without refueling. A G6R with a 68/4500 tank can shoot more paintballs without refilling than a Luxe with a 68/4500 tank.

And yet another point at which you're wrong: gasoline is very volatile and boils at 100-400 degrees Fahrenheit. This is why the gas tanks on cars have air-tight caps. Gasoline-powered internal combustion engines are powered by the fumes of gasoline evaporating in the cylinders after it's injected in.



Believe it or not, there is a reason why I specified a 68/4500 tank. Because it is a 68 cu inch tank filled to 4500 psi. And, I find myself repeating this, you cannot measure the efficiency of a tank. All 68/4500 tanks hold the same energy when filled to 4500 psi. An IDEAL marker can shoot more shots out of a 68/4500 than a real marker using the same exact tank. All 68/4500 tanks store and output the same amount of energy. The number of shots you get out of one depends on the EFFICIENCY OF THE MARKER.



Yeah, good job trying to change the topic and cover your broken ***. But, you should've done that 3 posts ago. Before you reply (I know you will), please ask your mom to check your grammar and your facts so you don't keep spewing sh*t in my thread.
Lol what? Im not mad at anything you posted, as these have been all my opinions. Yes my grammar isn't the best because this is a forum and I do not proof read my post (eh, just don't have time to).

The programming thing was not going to make everything easier, I didn't claim that I just wanted to do that for fun.

The perfect paintballs would matter, not in the equation but in real life. ~20 paintballs of oblong shape would change everything. Like we both mentioned in the beginning of the thread, this is the perfect marker.

The regulator is the marker regulator going back to my STBB marker and the pressures that it operates on. I would have trouble with running on 200psi as they have a much higher working psi, unlike higher end markers.

The tank example is exactly what I said. I know you think my "grammar is terrible" but like I mentioned before I do not proofread. Im sorry if it bothers you so much. . Although I did say "On the same engine" meaning two tanks on the same marker with the same size and pressure will have the same efficiency. No arguments with that.

I was just noting the difference in gas as it is mainly in its liquid state (until it hits the injectors and into the combustion chamber). With a larger tank, yes you will be getting more vapor but the difference in MPGs would be very minute difference.

Double Quote FTW?
Quote:
Believe it or not, there is a reason why I specified a 68/4500 tank. Because it is a 68 cu inch tank filled to 4500 psi. And, I find myself repeating this, you cannot measure the efficiency of a tank. All 68/4500 tanks hold the same energy when filled to 4500 psi. An IDEAL marker can shoot more shots out of a 68/4500 than a real marker using the same exact tank. All 68/4500 tanks store and output the same amount of energy. The number of shots you get out of one depends on the EFFICIENCY OF THE MARKER.
Yes the max number of shots do depend on the efficiency of the marker. I never doubted that (Well in my mind actually, I might have counter posted it), but the variables you used are the most shots any marker ever to be built would be able to shoot. Its too perfect, I.E. would never be possible.

What I leaned when I was younger about is something along the lines
Maximum Efficiency of x = Maximum efficiency of any one component in x.

There is nothing on that marker that can be swapped out to make it more efficient. The tank is maxed, the paintballs, the regulator, bolt. I think I was taught wrong . I'm so sorry I let my inferior ideas cloud this perfect thread when I was trying to get more information and broaden my knowledge.

Yes I only wanted to change what I said after I thought about it. That's why i ended the conversation the way I did, I thought it would change the hostility.
OVIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2012, 12:19 AM #15
dragonight1843
 
 
dragonight1843's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: memphis
*mind blown*
__________________
memphis!!!



Under 18 an buy all my own gear.
dragonight1843 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 03:57 PM #16
Markdawanton
 
 
Markdawanton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Atlanta
I am quite sure this kid knows what hes talking about. Legitimacy is his middle name.

Tyrone why do you do these sort of things.
__________________
PM8+Protege 241
Markdawanton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 08:32 PM #17
byarosh201
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
On the car thing. You can have the same motor, and same size tank in 2 different cars and not get the same mileage even if they drive the same route and in the same exact fashion(acceleration, maintained speed, deceleration, etc)

The same applies to this thread 2 guns will shoot differently because they are 2 different "motors". Some guns run low pressure others run at higher pressures. Something on an LP system will get more shots per tank than a HP system.

That being said I can speak first hand on this. I own a Tippman X7 phenom (which is a "LP" system so they say) and an etek 3. On my etek I can shoot apx 1000 balls on a 48/4500. In the same weather with the X7 I can shoot apx 1000 on a 68/4500. This was done 2 weeks ago I let my friend use my X7 at an event. Same paint, same air temp, same elevations(relatively, a change of apx 200 vertical feet at any given time)

I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore so if anyone does please carry on.
byarosh201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 10:14 PM #18
gamefreak054
CCM T2 OWNER
 
gamefreak054's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
gamefreak054 is playing at Living Legends V
gamefreak054 is playing at Living Legends VI
gamefreak054 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
gamefreak054 posts videos on PbNation
gamefreak054 has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
gamefreak054 is attending Decay of Nations VI
gamefreak054 supports DLX Technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by byarosh201 View Post
On the car thing. You can have the same motor, and same size tank in 2 different cars and not get the same mileage even if they drive the same route and in the same exact fashion(acceleration, maintained speed, deceleration, etc)

The same applies to this thread 2 guns will shoot differently because they are 2 different "motors". Some guns run low pressure others run at higher pressures. Something on an LP system will get more shots per tank than a HP system.

That being said I can speak first hand on this. I own a Tippman X7 phenom (which is a "LP" system so they say) and an etek 3. On my etek I can shoot apx 1000 balls on a 48/4500. In the same weather with the X7 I can shoot apx 1000 on a 68/4500. This was done 2 weeks ago I let my friend use my X7 at an event. Same paint, same air temp, same elevations(relatively, a change of apx 200 vertical feet at any given time)

I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore so if anyone does please carry on.
Your a little off in your thinking, his math is totally bypassing the marker portion. Its like if you could shoot a paintball directly from a tank. He is comparing the stored energy of a tank to how much energy it would take to launch a paintball at 300 FPS.

It seems kinda odd that its only 2500 paintballs but there are alot of naturally deceiving things in physics. Like a car hitting a fly and both receive the same force. spinning a tire attached to a string horizontal, and upon letting go the tire will spin vertical (I dont really know how to explain this demonstration fully) but those 2 examples are used if physics a lot.
gamefreak054 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 08:44 PM #19
kpfau
 
 
kpfau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pittsurgh
kpfau owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
kpfau supports DLX Technology
oh physics
__________________
CCHS Paintall

Pittsburgh PA

Steeltown Paintball
kpfau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 02:06 PM #20
blueshifty
RIP: Underřath
 
blueshifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreak054 View Post
Your a little off in your thinking, his math is totally bypassing the marker portion. Its like if you could shoot a paintball directly from a tank. He is comparing the stored energy of a tank to how much energy it would take to launch a paintball at 300 FPS.

It seems kinda odd that its only 2500 paintballs but there are alot of naturally deceiving things in physics. Like a car hitting a fly and both receive the same force. spinning a tire attached to a string horizontal, and upon letting go the tire will spin vertical (I dont really know how to explain this demonstration fully) but those 2 examples are used if physics a lot.
Indeed.

There are some other assumptions the OP didn't address, such as in order for this to be accurate the tank pressure would need time to stabilize between shots. The other portion that can change this is the venturi effect... overall the math in the formula checks out, the unit conversions are fine and it is a pretty interesting tidbit.
__________________
Feedback: Old (+4)
blueshifty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 03:01 PM #21
speedy2k4
BSH University
 
speedy2k4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MD
speedy2k4 is a Supporting Member
Why are you subtracting atmospheric pressure from the 4500psi? That is a gauge pressure, meaning pressure above atmospheric. Hence the gauge reads 0 when pressure has equalized, rather than 0 representing a vacuum.

If you want to calculate the total stored energy within the cylinder, you would actually have to add your atmospheric pressure to the 4500psi to determine the absolute pressure.

Other than that, the math would get you a good grade on a physics 101 test. In the real world there are so many different variables that play in, the actual number can be very far off.
speedy2k4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump