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Old 08-27-2012, 04:01 PM #22
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The reffing was bad, but it didn't even compare to how bad the event as a whole ran. 3000psi fills in the pits, 5 hour breaks for some teams, constant schedule changes on fields and times played, field 3 altogether was a giant joke, and overall one kid on my team played 4 games without a virtue chip in his gun!

NPPL your league is clearly dying. Chuck and Pev I have an idea for you, how about you walk around the pits and talk to your customers face to face shaking their hands, asking them how they feel about the event, and how you guys can make improvements. I payed 1900$ to play d3 in 2009. Today I am spending 2600$ at an event that is blatantly going down hill every single event. Every season there is talk about boycotts of paint companies and pro players and all other kinds of paintball manufacturers, but you seem to do nothing about it. Instead of worrying about beer sponsors, band jams and bikini contests how about you fix the god damn problems with PAINTBALL! My god how is it there is not one person who knows how to run a legitimate business in the NPPL?
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:30 PM #23
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I have been involved at every level in Paintball, from the top to the bottom, from sideline to sideline. I did walk the pits every single day to watch the people, shake their hands, to ask for their support and their complaints. But i must admit i am always amazed at the end of each event the amount of complaints the refs get. Some of them do this on a volunteer basis and they only get a small amount of appreciation. If you think you can do a better job, then put your selves on the line and do the job, show everyone how its done. I have been involved since the inception of the sport, paid, sponsored, won and lost and I need your support if we want to make progress. Please understand our position and do something to help. I always appreciate all of your opinions but lets try to do the league a favor and call my cell first or email me. I promise i will address each reasonable issue. No amount of change will ever be perfect and i heard several good comments, but not one sport where reffing is involved is perfect and every arm chair quarterback wants to bash the ref's. Unfair guys, call me first. It is not part of my job description, its Tony's so i suggest speaking with him first, he is doing a great job and is making progress, like i said yesterday on the mic, in everyones life a little rain must fall. We have to learn to crawl before we can walk and eventually run. If you don't want to participate don't, but i don't think you will find a better experience once i have acomplished what i have set out to do, make this sport better for everyone, including you, the ref's and my unborn grandson "Raylon James Poorman" Thanks for choosing the NPPL.

Last edited by edpoorman : 08-27-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:40 PM #24
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To Mr. Poorman

Competent unbiased Officiating as best as possible. Thats not much to ask. Nppl only runs 2-3 fields. How hard can it be? I think if that was worked on and resolved. It would alleviate much of the pressure and complaints. Scheduling and other things are pressing issues as well but not as much as this. Honest teams rely on this in order to be given a fair game. Mistakes are mistakes. missed calls, etc. But of this magnitude is unacceptable. Just because players make a solid complaint doesnt mean it always has to be met with "If you think you can do better then do it." Because maybe they can. But we are players and not all players are ignorant of how reffing Should go. Many are probably jaded from all of the promises made about change but very little to no significant difference since the last promise. Prove me wrong. Cause I sure as hell havent seen it.

And its hard to appreciate refs that dont give a crap about reffing correctly.
Especially penalty cowboys.

Last edited by suckapunch : 08-27-2012 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:56 PM #25
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I can tell you that what Ed is saying is 100% correct about him talking to players and getting feedback... I saw him doing it all weekend.

Ed and I were talking about paintball players and I told him that paintball is the only sport that I've ever been a part of where the players literally make every excuse under the sun instead of taking responsibility for what they and their team did wrong. It's always the refs, paint, gun, loader, teammate, field, weather or some other excuse. It's really frustrating to walk around the event and listen to that happen but I'm sure I did it on most of the matches that I lost in tournaments too.

You rarely see the winning teams complaining and you rarely see the losing teams giving praise...

Please let Ed know your concerns and give him a chance to address them... I know he will do his best.

Thanks,
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:56 PM #26
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Event after event I see people complaining about reffing. Local, National, PSP, NPPL, Millennium, CXBL it doesn't matter. "Complaints come from questions"

It's amazing how nobody has addressed the issue.

As a promoter you need to PROMOTE.
The night before the event have a mandatory 2 hour referee refresher clinic. FILM IT, EDIT IT, POST IT. Even if it is mostly a social event. Show the consumer you are working on addressing the issue. This would appease the complainers already playing in the league and better yet promote more attention towards referee officials and rules to players who do not play in the league

The NPPL and paintball as a whole are full of questions. Limiting the paint is the only way to control the total experience but that is a completely different issue.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:14 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm RickJames View Post
I can tell you that what Ed is saying is 100% correct about him talking to players and getting feedback... I saw him doing it all weekend.

Ed and I were talking about paintball players and I told him that paintball is the only sport that I've ever been a part of where the players literally make every excuse under the sun instead of taking responsibility for what they and their team did wrong. It's always the refs, paint, gun, loader, teammate, field, weather or some other excuse. It's really frustrating to walk around the event and listen to that happen but I'm sure I did it on most of the matches that I lost in tournaments too.

You rarely see the winning teams complaining and you rarely see the losing teams giving praise...

Please let Ed know your concerns and give him a chance to address them... I know he will do his best.

Thanks,
Chris
Stop with the BS man there are SEVERAL teams who placed this event complaining in this thread. That whole only teams who lose complain and you can do better crap is just a cop out. The fact of the matter is that the reffing was poor I'm almost certain teams who won, loss, and even dropped out can agree on that.

The first part of successfully running any business is accepting responsibility and holding yourself and your staff accountable for the mistakes. Please take time to really evaluate the situation before you make excuses. Putting the blame on losing teams is certainly a major cop out. Again SEVERAL teams in this thread placed at your event.

As a guy said above my team played D4 all of our IDs say D3. Things like this can't happen, but they did and not once did a ref check any of our IDs and ask why an entire team of D3 IDs were playing D4.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:18 PM #28
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Like i said before, its really not my job and i understand and appreciate your complaints, anything can happen, we are human after all. I wish i could just wave myy magic wand and everything was like heaven but that is just not possible. Anything worth doing takes time, energy, and a desire to listen and do whatever we can to make things better for the future. The world is not perfect and i don't know anyone who thinks life is fair, so if life is not fair then nothiing else is either. In a perfect world, we would not need reffing at all and everryone would play fair, so lets work together and if you don't want to i can understand, but i remember a line from idiocracy and it was also a famous political quote, "lead, follow or get out of the way". I'll do my best to lead, but i need you all to lead us into the future with positive prospectives. No business is perfect either and we do know we make mistakes, thanks for all your input and i think it would be best for me to stay out of this thread in the future. If you would like to discuss these issues i would love to fill you in on a one on one basis, my number is 308-440-5102 or you can email me at ed@nppl.com . Thanks you all once again.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:31 PM #29
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wow,just wow,i dont think he understand that he is speaking to cutomers not employees or voluteers..why you have volunteers reffing an event..that explain alot
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:01 AM #30
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Originally Posted by pbackman125 View Post

Besides all the indecisiveness and laziness from the reffing. I think the craziest thing I witnessed was a guy from my team getting pulled off the field for shooting 301 fps. And that was durring the game. Really nppl?
its pretty cut and dry that the limit is 300, if they let 301 slide then they let 302 slide etc etc. they have hand-held's for a reason. Players on my squad and our sister squad have been pulled mid game for the same reason. If your gun spikes, turn it down.

Not to hop on the band wagon, but there were some bad calls as any event would have. My question is this, on Field 2(maybe Field 1 as well, i wasnt over there) they played until the thunder/lightening, took the ~30 min or so break to wait it out, ran a couple games, then took ANOTHER break probably about another ~30 min... there was maybe 6 games ran in between and i believe the matches had just gotten past quarters... most of us went from standing under the tent, to the field for our best of 3, then back to just sitting around for x amount of time while no games were going..
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:01 AM #31
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Originally Posted by edpoorman View Post
Like i said before, its really not my job and i understand and appreciate your complaints, anything can happen, we are human after all. I wish i could just wave myy magic wand and everything was like heaven but that is just not possible. Anything worth doing takes time, energy, and a desire to listen and do whatever we can to make things better for the future. The world is not perfect and i don't know anyone who thinks life is fair, so if life is not fair then nothiing else is either. In a perfect world, we would not need reffing at all and everryone would play fair, so lets work together and if you don't want to i can understand, but i remember a line from idiocracy and it was also a famous political quote, "lead, follow or get out of the way". I'll do my best to lead, but i need you all to lead us into the future with positive prospectives. No business is perfect either and we do know we make mistakes, thanks for all your input and i think it would be best for me to stay out of this thread in the future. If you would like to discuss these issues i would love to fill you in on a one on one basis, my number is 308-440-5102 or you can email me at ed@nppl.com . Thanks you all once again.
Ed, I would be more than happy to ref the NPPL. I have 20+ years in the game, and have reffed for PSP, MS and countless UK events.

I am part of one of the best reffing crews in the world, and can provide references to verify that.

Bring me over for Vegas, or if that is to soon, for HB. I promise I will totally change the perception of NPPL reffing - or you don't have to pay me.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:24 AM #32
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Originally Posted by Jonathan UK Refs View Post
Ed, I would be more than happy to ref the NPPL. I have 20+ years in the game, and have reffed for PSP, MS and countless UK events.

I am part of one of the best reffing crews in the world, and can provide references to verify that.

Bring me over for Vegas, or if that is to soon, for HB. I promise I will totally change the perception of NPPL reffing - or you don't have to pay me.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:45 AM #33
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Ive sceen better calls in a phone booth over field 2 refs for the DC event.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:10 PM #34
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I never watched a game on Field 2, but from what it sounds like it was much of the same on Field 1.

As an example:
Our first game all 7 players on Dynasty left the start box off the Field 2 buzzer, I believe there was a 3 second difference between the Field 2 buzzer and the Field 1 buzzer. Not one Dynasty player was pulled for leaving early.
On the other side of the field. one of our players got pulled for leaving early, 4 got shot at the start box before the buzzer went off and they refused to replay the point.

Start doing a webcast, even if it's basic so you can watch the ref's later and use it as a teaching tool. Show them where they should have been positioned. Show them what they did wrong and tell them how to fix it.

The "Purple People Puller" was the best ref the NPPL had in my opinion but he is now abscent, what happend to him?

Fix what you can control and the quality and education of the ref's is one of them. Stop doing non-paintball related activities at paintball tournaments. Have a players party to bring players and sponsors together, have a webcast, and spend more money on your refs and ref training. The sport is good and exciting enough on it's own without trying to hype it with gimmicks.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:02 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan UK Refs View Post
Ed, I would be more than happy to ref the NPPL. I have 20+ years in the game, and have reffed for PSP, MS and countless UK events.

I am part of one of the best reffing crews in the world, and can provide references to verify that.

Bring me over for Vegas, or if that is to soon, for HB. I promise I will totally change the perception of NPPL reffing - or you don't have to pay me.
Im with Jonathan on this one. I would be more than willing to come to an event solely to ref. I play PSP events and have never played or been to an NPPL event, but I am more than willing to help out. I have head reffed many local series events and quite a few MSXL(PSP affiliate series) events and have yet to hear complaints on my reffing ability. For me this isnt a PSP/NPPL issue. This is a paintball issue and if its going to be fixed then the players need to step up and support. I even have a couple friends from my reffing team that would probably willing to help. Now, youve got people interested in helping. The question is.. Are you going to make use of them?
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:03 PM #36
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Oh Yeah, bring these guys in.


And I definitely agree with kazer. None of that other stuff is appealing. Kinda like the football stadiums we use to play outside of lol
Who cares. Seen one football stadium ya seen em all. Put that extra money into quality tourneys not caffenated ones.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:31 PM #37
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Thanks for the support, guys.

I know that I'm not going to get rich or famous from paintball, but I think most of us know that too.

We're in it because we love the game.

And if we can make a difference, then lets get on it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:41 PM #38
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Thank you my friends one and all, if you truely want to help do your best to get in touch with Tony our head man, hard but fair and lets see where it can go. I will not be back in this forum thread again, like i said before it is not my job, if you need me call me at 308-440-5102 or email me at ed@nppl.com
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:14 PM #39
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Roger that, Ed. I'll hit up Tony.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:52 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPluribusUnum View Post

NPPL your league is clearly dying. Chuck and Pev I have an idea for you, how about you walk around the pits and talk to your customers face to face shaking their hands, asking them how they feel about the event, and how you guys can make improvements.
A little off topic, but Chuck, Pev and Ed both stopped by my booth multiple times to shake my hand, see how everything was going and to make sure I was happy. I let Ed know about my suggestions to the league regarding vendor presence and he seemed very receptive.

I was not a player at this event, but from what I was seeing from peeking my head out of the back of my booth from time to time, and from hearing stories from my player friends, that the officiating at this event was very poor.

Officiating paintball is extremely difficult, and I do praise the refs at every tournament for putting the time and energy into being there. They work a thankless job, and they should not be to blame for any issues here.

The best thing in my opinion that can be done is offer more training clinics for refs, and from a league organizer's standpoint, offer better pay and amenities to the officials.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:19 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimus85 View Post
A little off topic, but Chuck, Pev and Ed both stopped by my booth multiple times to shake my hand, see how everything was going and to make sure I was happy. I let Ed know about my suggestions to the league regarding vendor presence and he seemed very receptive.



The best thing in my opinion that can be done is offer more training clinics for refs, and from a league organizer's standpoint, offer better pay and amenities to the officials.
It's great that they made a presence to the vendors, but in reality it's the teams that pay entry and play at the events that bring in money. Rarely do people complain about the vendors at an event, but a ****ty event where you cant even fill your tank to 3500psi-and yes i mean 3500psi- will drive people away. They need to get in the pits with the PLAYERS to find out what is going on with their league.

2nd I feel the amenities and pay are fine for an NPPL ref. I have a friend who only has 2 years experience in paintball, has never reffed an event in his life, and never took a ref clinic before and he was paid 150 a day plus free hotel.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:21 PM #42
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from someone who has been playing nothing more than rec ball for 6 years and just decided to dedicate my self to tourney paintball here is something that i see of the post on here most seem to be understandable complaints but twice do you have people admitting to cheating first the guy who said he had a whole team of D3 guys competing in D4 and the guy who said at the MAO he has never cheated as much in his life now as someone who can speak from a standpoint of picking a national league to join and deciding it is worth my money the first thing that comes to my mind is I don't know of a signal sport where a player can post game admit on a national level that he cheated his way through an event or game and not suffer some form of sanctions at future events so if are goal is to have better refs and better enforcement of the rules lets start with the people who not only out there cheating but than bad mouthing the sport that they are cheating in to make it look bad on top of that the best way to clean up a game is to self police first than work from there
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