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Old 08-21-2012, 07:14 PM #64
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Swerve, treg is saying that the current middle is a legitimate political stance (regardless of the sways to either side of it). While in 50 years it may not be in the middle anymore, this ideology is still valid.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:31 PM #65
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lol, it isn't in the middle now.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:46 PM #66
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Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
lol, it isn't in the middle now.
the middle isn't in the middle?
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:01 PM #67
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What we currently think of the middle.. isn't.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:28 PM #68
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irrelevant to the discussion
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:31 PM #69
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Quick mod. Change the tread title to lost sheep.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:42 PM #70
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Quote:
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irrelevant to the discussion
You brought the idea up, friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Swerve, treg is saying that the current middle is a legitimate political stance (regardless of the sways to either side of it). While in 50 years it may not be in the middle anymore, this ideology is still valid.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:19 PM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
You brought the idea up, friend.
...

You're not proving any point whatsoever.

Whatever you want to define as the "middle" is it's own ideology and the current political spectrum will slide all over the place, thus placing the current "middle" people in a different area of whatever spectrum is relevant today.

Your point is... well... irrelevant.

Let me redo this little chart for you again:

Code:
Spectrum 1a * <middle person {|--------------| } ^current duality ^entire possible political spectrum Spectrum 1b * <middle person { |--------------| } Spectrum 1c * <middle person {|--------------------| }
It makes no difference. What matters is where our current duality of political ideologies lies. I guarantee you the mainstream dualities are far from the entire, broad range of political ideologies.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:53 AM #72
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I can never tell if barrel roll is ignorant or just being difficult.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:20 AM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I can never tell if barrel roll is ignorant or just being difficult.
You just need to shift Overton's Window and you'll begin to understand his posts.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:10 AM #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
...

You're not proving any point whatsoever.

Whatever you want to define as the "middle" is it's own ideology and the current political spectrum will slide all over the place, thus placing the current "middle" people in a different area of whatever spectrum is relevant today.

Your point is... well... irrelevant.

Let me redo this little chart for you again:

Code:
Spectrum 1a * <middle person {|--------------| } ^current duality ^entire possible political spectrum Spectrum 1b * <middle person { |--------------| } Spectrum 1c * <middle person {|--------------------| }
It makes no difference. What matters is where our current duality of political ideologies lies. I guarantee you the mainstream dualities are far from the entire, broad range of political ideologies.
That's not true in practice. Classical liberals tend to think of themselves as conservatives in this country and the left tends to view them as being on the right, even though they aren't.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:33 AM #75
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That's not true in practice. Classical liberals tend to think of themselves as conservatives in this country and the left tends to view them as being on the right, even though they aren't.
This doesn't exhaust my argument in any way. It matters not where people think they lie, my point will still remain.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:12 PM #76
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This thread seems to think moderates gravitate to the middle of the spectrum in the us because its a convenient spot in between the two parties' platforms. Not because its possible that moderates happen to use reason to get to their current beliefs.

I will also say that the vast majority of this website would just vote for one party regardless of the candidate or not vote at all. Frankly voters like those suck and do not see leaders as a case by case basis, but as the representative of some generalized ideology.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:15 PM #77
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
This doesn't exhaust my argument in any way. It matters not where people think they lie, my point will still remain.
I'm sorry I misread the first paragraph. A few cups of coffee later and it is clear now.

The middle is contingent on the duality regardless of perception. Although I hate to think of the Left and Right as having degrees. I feel that a political view will always represent one or the other when broken down into it's elements. I understand that this negates the middle from existing entirely which is perhaps the Truth of the matter.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:21 PM #78
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Originally Posted by chodeyg View Post
This thread seems to think moderates gravitate to the middle of the spectrum in the us because its a convenient spot in between the two parties' platforms. Not because its possible that moderates happen to use reason to get to their current beliefs.

I will also say that the vast majority of this website would just vote for one party regardless of the candidate or not vote at all. Frankly voters like those suck and do not see leaders as a case by case basis, but as the representative of some generalized ideology.
You're assuming that anyone who has made the choice between left and right has not employed reason. Why?

This is not strictly about the US. It is about anyone who claims to reside somewhere between Left and Right regardless of which party is or appears to be affiliated with either dominant ideology.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:28 PM #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I can never tell if barrel roll is ignorant or just being difficult.
Mostly being difficult, because I do value what you say every now and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
...

You're not proving any point whatsoever.

Whatever you want to define as the "middle" is it's own ideology and the current political spectrum will slide all over the place, thus placing the current "middle" people in a different area of whatever spectrum is relevant today.

Your point is... well... irrelevant.

Let me redo this little chart for you again:

Code:
Spectrum 1a * <middle person {|--------------| } ^current duality ^entire possible political spectrum Spectrum 1b * <middle person { |--------------| } Spectrum 1c * <middle person {|--------------------| }
It makes no difference. What matters is where our current duality of political ideologies lies. I guarantee you the mainstream dualities are far from the entire, broad range of political ideologies.
Aw, look at you, trying to learn me some political theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt.is.back2011 View Post
You just need to shift Overton's Window and you'll begin to understand his posts.
lol

Yo dog, I heard you like windows...
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:39 PM #80
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
You're assuming that anyone who has made the choice between left and right has not employed reason. Why?

This is not strictly about the US. It is about anyone who claims to reside somewhere between Left and Right regardless of which party is or appears to be affiliated with either dominant ideology.
No I didnt assume that- the rest of this thread has shown disdain for moderates as if they just picked a spot in between the two parties as if to compromise rather than by self driven beliefs.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:04 PM #81
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No I didnt assume that- the rest of this thread has shown disdain for moderates as if they just picked a spot in between the two parties as if to compromise rather than by self driven beliefs.
If there existed an independent belief system held by the moderates, they would not be moderates.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:33 PM #82
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So since it doesn't have a name its not a thing? Classic human flaw imo.

A belief system doesn't have to be legitimate in others eyes for it to be a belief system. Moderates don't always land right smack in the middle of the spectrum. It also depends on if you view a political spectrum as linear with anarchism on the right and totalitarian communism on the left in which case everyone in between is a moderate...
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:06 PM #83
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Treg, are you operating under the impression that "middle" voters have a clearly defined ideology that rests more or less exactly between the current positions of democrats and republicans?
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:27 PM #84
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What's wrong with not subscribing specifically to one overall ideology in which there is one panacea for all problems relating to government? I don't see wanting government intervention/control in some places and not others "exactly between republicans and democrats" as if it were some wishy washy compromise.
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