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Old 08-14-2012, 04:59 PM #43
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
You said every form of government swerve but you keep talking about democracy and republic, nothing else.
Every form of government does it. Some are more successful and use much different tactics - which is why they become totalitarian.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:03 PM #44
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Every form of government does it. Some are more successful and use much different tactics - which is why they become totalitarian.
Does what exactly? There are no parties or sides in a monarchy.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:26 PM #45
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Does what exactly? There are no parties or sides in a monarchy.
That's because the monarch has tools available to surpress his opposition that don't exist/would not be legal in a Democracy. The monarch still has to "play the game" to stay in public favor/control his populace/prevent rebellion/etc. etc.

Think deeply about it man, I suspect you know I'm correct and you're just playing devils advocate. If not, as I suggested earlier I'd suggest reading some Machiavelli.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:27 PM #46
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Yet there is evidence of the former and none of the latter.

Unless you're talking about "surpressing the vote" as in trying to demoralize the opposition so that they don't have great turnout - which is an orthodox political tactic used by pretty much every political campaign in history.
Lack of evidence of the latter? looking up your sleeve doesn't count as much of a search swerve. The Florida and Indiana voter ID laws supposedly were attempts to stifle voter fraud ( which is minimal in actual numbers http://www.brennancenter.org/content...t_voter_fraud/ ) but actually will make it difficult for the poorer citizens of this society to vote. Numbering in the tens of thousands. ( http://www.wbiw.com/state/archives/2...ill_hamper.php) . The republicans should have picked Huntsman and they would have had a good chance. Hell I would have voted for him since he didn't pander to the extreme wingnut crowd. By the way before you blast the articles websites try to at least read them.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:32 PM #47
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Lack of evidence of the latter? looking up your sleeve doesn't count as much of a search swerve. The Florida and Indiana voter ID laws supposedly were attempts to stifle voter fraud ( which is minimal in actual numbers http://www.brennancenter.org/content...t_voter_fraud/ ) but actually will make it difficult for the poorer citizens of this society to vote. Numbering in the tens of thousands. ( http://www.wbiw.com/state/archives/2...ill_hamper.php) . The republicans should have picked Huntsman and they would have had a good chance. Hell I would have voted for him since he didn't pander to the extreme wingnut crowd. By the way before you blast the articles websites try to at least read them.
ID's come for free from the DMV.

Voter ID laws are not "attempts to surpress minorities" regardless of what your leftist friends have told you. They are attempts to protect and preserve the integrity of the voting process.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:33 PM #48
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ID's come for free from the DMV.
http://dmvanswers.com/questions/419/...-ID-cards-cost
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:40 PM #49
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Oh, so completely out of reach then. That definitely justifies allowing the fraud and dishonesty that will be rampant without requiring identification for voters.

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Old 08-14-2012, 06:21 PM #50
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Do you enjoy just saying stuff out your *** and then being proven wrong? Because you seem to do it a lot.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:26 PM #51
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Do you enjoy just saying stuff out your *** and then being proven wrong? Because you seem to do it a lot.


Still haven't shown any proof or even evidence of voter supression.

Still haven't answered my question in the other thread yet either.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:38 PM #52
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You haven't even shown proof of voter fraud. Why are we even talking about voter ID? I don't think it's a bad thing, but there are certainly more important things than voter fraud right now. It's just a distraction from what we should be talking about.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:55 PM #53
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You haven't even shown proof of voter fraud. Why are we even talking about voter ID? I don't think it's a bad thing, but there are certainly more important things than voter fraud right now. It's just a distraction from what we should be talking about.
Fraud is possible without verifiable ID is the point. I can't remember who brougth it up but that's where the conversation went.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:39 PM #54
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ID's come for free from the DMV.

Voter ID laws are not "attempts to surpress minorities" regardless of what your leftist friends have told you. They are attempts to protect and preserve the integrity of the voting process.
I got some land in central Florida for you. Prime realestate. Great buy. Voter ID IS VOTER SUPPRESSION. Knew you wouldn't read those articles. Derp
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:11 PM #55
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Am I missing something here? Shouldn't you have to prove you are a U.S. citizen to vote in U.S. elections? How is having to prove that restricting someone's vote? Everyone should have an ID and if they don't, it takes a miniscule amount of time to get one.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:39 AM #56
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That's because the monarch has tools available to surpress his opposition that don't exist/would not be legal in a Democracy. The monarch still has to "play the game" to stay in public favor/control his populace/prevent rebellion/etc. etc.

Think deeply about it man, I suspect you know I'm correct and you're just playing devils advocate. If not, as I suggested earlier I'd suggest reading some Machiavelli.
What opposition? There is no other legitimate claim to the throne than the royal family. Are you talking about Usurpers? Because that is treason.

The significant advantage of monarchy is that you don't need to seek public favor. You are able to implement policy and agenda unhindered.

Yes every leader does have to forge a relationship with his subjects. That is a far cry from the type of game TheSilentAssassin was talking about. Most certainly different from the examples you yourself have given hitherto.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:51 AM #57
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I got some land in central Florida for you. Prime realestate. Great buy. Voter ID IS VOTER SUPPRESSION. Knew you wouldn't read those articles. Derp
Which people do not have an ID? Really, which ones? Which people does this suppress?

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You haven't even shown proof of voter fraud. Why are we even talking about voter ID? I don't think it's a bad thing, but there are certainly more important things than voter fraud right now. It's just a distraction from what we should be talking about.
Yeah, like Joe Biden telling black people that white people want to put them back in chains. Oh wait, you were too busy trolling and pretending he wasn't talking about that. No surprise you don't want to talk about voter ID - you like illegal aliens rolling across the border, selling drugs. Entirely valid issue. You're starting to rival Gonzo.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:53 AM #58
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You haven't even shown proof of voter fraud.
You want proof of democrats committing voter fraud...

Well, that would be against the liberal media agenda, so they wouldn't cover that...


How about the NAACP EXECUTIVE in Mississippi who just went to PRISON for 10 counts of voter fraud (probably more as well, but they only charged him with 10 counts they could prove with DNA)...

Maybe he was voting for McCain... Whoopsies, nope, NAACP votes democratic...


Best quote from the article...

"Election experts say voter fraud is fairly common, but progressive activists typically insist that the crime is virtually nonexistent. Republicans, they say, routinely exaggerate claims of voter fraud in order to whip their political base into a frenzy and push for voter ID laws. Liberals say such laws are unfair, and claim that they discourage minorities and the poor from voting."

wow, almost word for word from this thread... Silly liberals, the proof is right there if you want to look at it... But, it won't fit your skewed reality, or your nightly news dump.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/mi...#ixzz23cfTTfOj

"In a story ignored by the national media, in April a Tunica County, Miss., jury convicted NAACP official Lessadolla Sowers on 10 counts of fraudulently casting absentee ballots. Sowers is identified on an NAACP website as a member of the Tunica County NAACP Executive Committee."

"The NAACP has had other problems with voter fraud. The NAACP National Voter Fund registered a dead man to vote in Lake County, Ohio, in 2004. That same year, out of 325 voter registration cards filed by the NAACP in Cleveland, 48 were flagged as fraudulent.

But the NAACP’s voter fraud record doesn’t approach that of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. At least 54 individuals employed by or associated with ACORN have been convicted of voter fraud.

Voter fraud, sometimes called electoral fraud, is a blanket term used by lawyers that encompasses a host of election-related improprieties including fraudulent voting, voter registration fraud, perjury, forgery, counterfeiting, impersonation, intimidation, and identity fraud.

And ACORN, which filed for bankruptcy last November, was itself convicted of voter fraud in Nevada in April. Sentencing is scheduled for Aug. 10 in Las Vegas. ACORN was also banished from Ohio in 2010 when it settled a state racketeering filed against it by the 1851 Center for Constitutional Law, a project of the Buckeye Institute. Under the settlement ACORN, which is now reorganizing its state chapters under different names, agreed never to return to the state."
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:17 AM #59
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Voter ID IS VOTER SUPPRESSION.
George Orwell would be proud of you.

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What opposition? There is no other legitimate claim to the throne than the royal family. Are you talking about Usurpers? Because that is treason.

The significant advantage of monarchy is that you don't need to seek public favor. You are able to implement policy and agenda unhindered.

Yes every leader does have to forge a relationship with his subjects. That is a far cry from the type of game TheSilentAssassin was talking about. Most certainly different from the examples you yourself have given hitherto.
The thing is, it's different only in that "the game" was played well enough to establish the monarchy in the first place. Even so, if Kings never had to engage in politics to keep their people content/motivated/demotivated/whatever then we would have never had things like the French Revolution, Magna Carta, US revolution, Russian Revolution, etc. etc.

"The game" as I'm referring to it is the politics/strategy of motivating your side and attempting to depress motivation of those opposed to you. In a democracy it's done with words, in a monarchy it's done with the sword or "treason" charges, and so on and so forth.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:25 AM #60
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You guys have never heard of the dictator's dilemma? You DO have to keep your subjects happy even with absolute power. There are more of them than you.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:42 AM #61
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"The game" as I'm referring to it is the politics/strategy of motivating your side and attempting to depress motivation of those opposed to you. In a democracy it's done with words, in a monarchy it's done with the sword or "treason" charges, and so on and so forth.
That clearly was not what this discussion was about... If you don't understand the conversation, why keep arguing? Are you trying to just make an *** out of yourself? Why not ask for clarification if you don't understand something before you go on a rant? Because you completely missed the boat.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:04 AM #62
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http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news...er-id-law?lite

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...block-law.html

"claiming the law unfairly burdens minorities"

Minorities - illegal aliens.

Nice, ID requirements in PA block denied. That's one way to stop illegal aliens from voting, and yes PA has had illegal alien problems in the past. Lou Barletta sure helped stop that crap in Hazelton, told em all to take a hike.

What a great ruling, the state supreme court is expected to uphold this ruling. Then other states can start citing PA and push their own law. Everyone should have a form of identification who is a citizen, not hard to obtain. This affects illegal aliens, who the left love letting vote for them, and this is exactly why you douchebags all want ID presentation to go away - to keep the illegal aliens voting, and rolling across the border with your drugs.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:20 AM #63
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George Orwell would be proud of you.



The thing is, it's different only in that "the game" was played well enough to establish the monarchy in the first place. Even so, if Kings never had to engage in politics to keep their people content/motivated/demotivated/whatever then we would have never had things like the French Revolution, Magna Carta, US revolution, Russian Revolution, etc. etc.

"The game" as I'm referring to it is the politics/strategy of motivating your side and attempting to depress motivation of those opposed to you. In a democracy it's done with words, in a monarchy it's done with the sword or "treason" charges, and so on and so forth.
We aren't talking about YOUR version of the game. We are talking about TSA's statement. No one is arguing that an absolute leader is not required to maintain the health and well being of his nation and his subjects. He absolutely must, but the path to power is the subject here as is the ability to legislate without the requirement of a public stamp of approval.

We punish for treason as well. By death.
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