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Old 07-24-2012, 11:14 AM #43
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Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
They are so full of **** strong suspicion bloodwork will show lh increase
There is no validated proof in regards to NMDA working (in regards to Iforce label claims) in healthy, active males.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:15 AM #44
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Pretty sure it will tbh
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:46 AM #45
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Have you read anything about excitotoxicity when orally administering NMDA?
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:03 PM #46
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I know enough to not use it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:07 PM #47
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there's a very good article on DAA I need to find to post here but I'm on my phone. It shows that it collects in the testes (a good thing, most likely) but also the anterior pituitary.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:11 PM #48
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I cannot find anything in regards to oral ingestion have negative effects.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:02 PM #49
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Beta-Alanine...

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High-velocity intermittent running: effects of beta-alanine supplementation.

Smith-Ryan AE, Fukuda DH, Stout JR, Kendall KL.


Abstract
ABSTRACT: The use of β-alanine in sport is widespread. However, the effects across all sport activities are inconclusive. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of β-alanine supplementation on high-intensity running performance and critical velocity (CV) and anaerobic running capacity (ARC). Fifty-recreationally trained men and were randomly assigned, in a double-blind fashion, to a β-alanine (BA, 2 800 mg tabs, 3 daily; CarnoSyn; n=26) or placebo (PL, 2 x 800 mg maltodextrin tabs, 3 daily; n=24) group. A graded exercise test (GXT) was performed to establish peak velocity (PV). Three high-speed runs to exhaustion were conducted at 110, 100, and 90% of PV, with 15 min of rest between bouts. The distances achieved were plotted over the times-to-exhaustion (TTE). Linear regression was used to determine the slope (CV) and y-intercept (ARC) of these relationships to assess aerobic and anaerobic performances, respectively. There were no significant treatment effects (p>0.05) on CV or ARC, for either men or women. Additionally, no TTE effects were evident for bouts at 90-110PV lasting 1.95-5.06 min. There seems to be no ergogenic effect of β-alanine supplementation on CV, ARC, or high-intensity running lasting approximately 2-5 min, in either men or women in the current study.
Quote:
Effects of beta-alanine supplementation on sprint endurance.
Jagim AR, Wright GA, Brice AG, Doberstein ST.
SourceExercise & Sport Science1, Biology Dept2, UW-La Crosse, La Crosse, WI.

Abstract
PURPOSE: Recent research has shown that beta-alanine supplementation can increase intramuscular carnosine levels. Carnosine is an intramuscular buffer and has been linked to improvements in performance, specifically during bouts of high intensity exercise that are likely limited by muscle acidosis. Therefore the purpose of this study was to examine the effect of beta-alanine supplementation (BA) on sprint endurance at two different supramaximal intensities.

METHODS: Twenty-one anaerobically trained [rugby players (n=4), wrestlers (n=11) and recreationally strength-trained athletes (n=6)] college men participated in a double blind, placebo controlled study. Subjects performed an incremental VO2 max test and two sprint to exhaustion tests set at 115% and 140% of their VO2 max on a motorized treadmill before (PRE) and after (POST) a 5 week supplementation period. During this time subjects ingested either a BA supplement or placebo (PLA) with meals. Subjects ingested 4g /day of BA or PLA during the first week and 6g/day the following 4 weeks. Capillary blood samples were taken before and after each sprint to determine blood lactate response to the sprint exercise RESULTS No significant group (BA, PLA) x intensity (115%, 140%; p=0.60), group by time (PRE, POST; p=0.72), or group x intensity x time (p=0.74) interactions were observed for time to exhaustion (See Table 1). In addition, similar non-significant observations were made for lactate response to the sprints (group x intensity, p=0.43; group x time, p=0.33, group x intensity x time, p=0.56)

CONCLUSION: From the results of the current study, it was concluded that beta-alanine supplementation did not have a significant effect on sprint endurance at supramaximal intensities.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:05 PM #50
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Exercise in a pill??

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Peroxisome proliferator-activated delta (PPARδ ) control the transcription of genes involved in lipid metabolism. Activation of PPARδ may have antiatherogenic effects through the increase of plasma HDL, theoretically promoting reverse cholesterol transport from peripheral tissues toward the liver for removal via bile and feces. Effects of PPARδ activation by agonist GW1516 has been demonstrated to effectively reverse metabolic abnormalities in obese men with metabolic syndrome (a pre-diabetic condition), likely due to the fact that it stimulus fatty acid oxidation.

GW1516 holds promise for treating obesity and adiposity and has been touted, much like AICAR, as "exercise in a pill," etc. In conjunction with AICAR, an AMPK agonist which acts synergistically with GW1516, significant increases in exercise endurance have been demonstrated in animal studies.

GW1516 and AICAR are becoming popular items in the bodybuilding grey market. My approach here is try to mimic the effects of the combo termed exercise in a pill using supplement available in the market. Here are some of of the substances that can potentially work in a similar manner:

Potential PPARδ agonist or activators (GW1516 mimcers):


1) Tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA): TTA is a non-selective PPAR agonist similar to GW1516 it activates PPARδ (weaker/less affinity) All three rodent peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR) subtypes were activated by TTA in the ranking order PPARalpha > PPARdelta > PPARgamma. TTA is a non-beta-oxidizable fatty acid analog, which potently regulates lipid homeostasis.


2) Arachidonic acid (AA): PPARs are activated by their ligands, among which are arachidonic acid and other PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) , NSAIDs and cyclopentenone PGs. There are at least three PPARs, PPARα, PPARδ and PPARγ, of which the PPARα and PPARδ isoforms. Therefore activation of a PPAR is one mechanism by which arachidonic acid may induce PTGS2.
3) Sessamin and fish oil: Sesamin acts primarily as a ppar-agonist of the alpha type, but there is evidence that it maybe a weak activator of of other PPAR subtypes

Potential AMPK agonist (AICAR mimcers):

1) Forskolin: Is unique in its ability to stimulate adenylate cyclase activity and increasec AMP which regulates and activates critical enzymes required for the cellular energy. Long-term forskolin stimulation induces AMPK activation similar to AICAR
2) Methylxanthines: It is a competitive nonselective phosphodiesterase inhibitors which raise intracellular cAMP, activate PKA, inhibit TNF-alpha and leukotriene This is found in CL popular supplement White flood.


Other potential candidates: berberine, Caffiene, Alisma plantago aquatica (ze xie/european waterplantain), Catharanthus roseus (madagascar periwinkle), Acorus calamus (sweet calamus), Euphorbia balsamifera (balsam spurge), Jatropha curcas (barbados nut), Origanum majorana (marjoram), Zea mays (corn silk), Capsicum frutescens (chilli) and Urtica dioica (stinging nettle).
EFA's -

Quote:
Vascular effects of prostacyclin: does activation of PPARδ play a role?
Katusic ZS, Santhanam AV, He T.
SourceDepartments of Anesthesiology, Molecular Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Mayo Clinic College of Medicine, Rochester, MN, USA.

Abstract
Prostacyclin (PGI(2)) is a potent vasodilator that exerts multiple vasoprotective effects in the cardiovascular system. The effects of PGI(2) are mediated by activation of the cell membrane G-protein-coupled PGI(2) receptor (IP receptor). More recently, however, it has been suggested that PGI(2) might also serve as an endogenous ligand and activator of nuclear peroxisome proliferator-activated receptorδ (PPARδ). Consistent with this concept, studies designed to define pharmacological properties of stable PGI(2) analogs revealed that beneficial effects of these compounds appear to be mediated, in part, by activation of PPARδ. This review discusses emerging evidence regarding the contribution of PPARδ activation to vasoprotective and regenerative functions of PGI(2) and stable analogs of PGI(2).
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:01 AM #51
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We just received blood tests back from a user who ran a cycle of our test booster. Surprised at the results
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:51 PM #52
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Curious to know more.

Beta alanine is good but should be supplemented with taurine IMO and the effects are really only for elite athletes @ 3g a day or so. Most natty supplements that have an effect would require large sample sizes to show statistical significance. A lot more 'work', but the effect size is almost always small
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:39 AM #53
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I'm digging through a few more studies, but most tend to have the same conclusion. Although, I am searching for one performed on weight lifters, no luck as of yet.

In my honest opinion, there will be no physiological difference between the BA supplementation group and placebo.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:31 AM #54
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How I feel about this entire thread at times:

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Old 08-03-2012, 08:08 AM #55
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:10 PM #56
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I'm digging through a few more studies, but most tend to have the same conclusion. Although, I am searching for one performed on weight lifters, no luck as of yet.

In my honest opinion, there will be no physiological difference between the BA supplementation group and placebo.
Check out the suppversity post that includes a study on wrestlers @3g BA/day
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:07 PM #57
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Just wanted to dedicate a thread to any companies incorporating this PEAK-ATP/oral nucleotide garbage into their formulas. Maybe your general consumer base is completely unaware however, this practice is akin to using sand as a filler, and it's time to be exposed. Side Effect Sports is by far the worst offender with the primary bulk of their products being worthless nucleotides that are rapidly & extensively annihilated via luminal & hepatic-dephosphorylation/degradation following oral administration. I confronted the owner of SES but to no avail. He simply refused to acknowledge the pharmacokinetic-conundrum that they've gotten themselves into. I have a feeling the SES reps have even been instructed to not venture outside of the company promo section in fear of exposure. If you plan on using any of these supplements in the future.... be sure to get the IV bag ready.

So in addition to Side Effect Sports entire lineup consisting of this flavored sand: Pre-Workout/Post Workout/Muscle Builder/Fat Burner/Energy/Endurance

MassPro Sythagen, Gaspari SuperPump Max, BSN Hyper FX/Epozine-O2, MRM Driven, Inner Armour Power Peak, are also guilty.

Quote:
Br J Nutr. 2011 Feb;105(3):357-66. Epub 2010 Dec 6.
Coolen EJ, Arts IC, Bekers O, Vervaet C, Bast A, Dagnelie PC.
Oral bioavailability of ATP after prolonged administration.

Purinergic receptors are important for the regulation of inflammation, muscle contraction, neurotransmission and nociception. Extracellular ATP and its metabolites are the main ligands for these receptors. Occasional reports on beneficial results of ATP administration in human and animal studies have suggested the bioavailability of oral ATP supplements. We investigated whether prolonged daily intake of oral ATP is indeed bioavailable. Thirty-two healthy subjects were randomised to receive 0, 250, 1250 or 5000 mg ATP per d for 28 d by means of enteric-coated pellets. In addition, on days 0 and 28, all thirty-two subjects received 5000 mg ATP to determine whether prolonged administration would induce adaptations in the bioavailability of ATP. ATP supplementation for 4 weeks did not lead to changes in blood or plasma ATP concentrations. Of all ATP metabolites, only plasma uric acid levels increased significantly after the administration of 5000 mg of ATP. Prolonged administration of ATP was safe as evidenced from liver and kidney parameters. We conclude that oral administration of ATP only resulted in increased uric acid concentrations. On the basis of these findings, we seriously question the claimed efficacy of oral ATP at dosages even lower than that used in the present study.



J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2012 Apr 17;9(1):16. [Epub ahead of print]
Arts IC, Coolen EJ, Bours MJ, Huyghebaert N, Cohen Stuart MA, Bast A, Dagnelie PC.
Adenosine 5' -triphosphate (ATP) supplements are not orally bioavailable: a randomized, placebocontrolled cross-over trial in healthy humans.

BACKGROUND:

Nutritional supplements designed to increase adenosine 5' -triphosphate (ATP) concentrations are commonly used by athletes as ergogenic aids. ATP is the primary source of energy for the cells, and supplementation may enhance the ability to maintain high ATP turnover during high-intensity exercise. Oral ATP supplements have beneficial effects in some but not all studies examining physical performance. One of the remaining questions is whether orally administered ATP is bioavailable. We investigated whether acute supplementation with oral ATP administered as enteric-coated pellets led to increased concentrations of ATP or its metabolites in the circulation.

METHODS:

Eight healthy volunteers participated in a cross-over study. Participants were given in random order single doses of 5000 mg ATP or placebo. To prevent degradation of ATP in the acidic environment of the stomach, the supplement was administered via two types of pH-sensitive, enteric-coated pellets (targeted at release in the proximal or distal small intestine), or via a naso-duodenal tube. Blood ATP and metabolite concentrations were monitored by HPLC for 4.5 h (naso-duodenal tube) or 7 h (pellets) post-administration. Areas under the concentration vs. time curve were calculated and compared by paired-samples t-tests.

RESULTS:

ATP concentrations in blood did not increase after ATP supplementation via enteric-coated pellets or naso-duodenal tube. In contrast, concentrations of the final catabolic product of ATP, uric acid, were significantly increased compared to placebo by ~50% after administration via proximal-release pellets (P = 0.003) and naso-duodenal tube (P = 0.001), but not after administration via distal-release pellets.

CONCLUSIONS:

A single dose of orally administered ATP is not bioavailable, and this may explain why several studies did not find ergogenic effects of oral ATP supplementation. On the other hand, increases in uric acid after release of ATP in the proximal part of the small intestine suggest that ATP or one of its metabolites is absorbed and metabolized. Uric acid itself may have ergogenic effects, but this needs further study. Also, more studies are needed to determine whether chronic administration of ATP will enhance its oral bioavailability.
...
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:37 PM #58
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Thinking of getting some Taurine for overall health.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:10 PM #59
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Taurine is great to supplement. Just do not supplement BA with Taurine, as BA has been shown to deplete Taurine levels.

Quote:
Part of the reason could very well be the fact taurine acts as an osmolyte and exercise can deplete it to varying degrees. While you can't acheive superphysiological levels of taurine as shown in Galloway 2008 you can certainly offset it's depletion while training through supplementing it before or during training.

In general though, I do think it helps maintain electrolyte balance and fluid balance as shown by Narada 2004 which could help in endurance leves and even increasing force contraction potential alluded to an in vitro study by Goodman 2009. All of these factors added up definitely point to the efficacy of taurine supplementation and back-up the in vivo results in humans shown by Zhang 2004 which showed oral taurine attenuated exercise induced DNA damage and increased exercise capacity in cyclists.
Quote:
Yatabe Y, Miyakawa S, Ohmori H, Mishima H, Adachi T. Effects of taurine administration on exercise. Adv Exp Med Biol. 2009;643:245-52.

Taurine concentration in rat skeletal muscles after endurance running, with and without taurine administration was studied. Taurine concentrations in skeletal muscles was significantly decreased in exercised groups without taurine administration. However, taurine administration reduced the decrease of taurine concentration in skeletal muscles in exercise. Oral administration of taurine has effect for maintaining taurine concentration in skeletal muscles in exercise. The duration of running time to exhaustion of rats, with and without taurine administration were studied. The duration of running time to exhaustion was significantly increased by taurine administration. Oral administration of taurine increases the ability of physical endurance. Rat urinary excretions of creatinine, creatine, 3-methylhistidine (3-MH) after treadmill running, with and without taurine administration were studied. Rat urinary excretions of creatinine, creatine, 3-MH after treadmill running was significantly decreased with taurine administration. Taurine administration was considered to reduce the exercise-induced muscle fatigue.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:23 PM #60
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Yeah I stopped using BA. I tried the recommended athletic dosing a while back and realized all I was doing was wasting my money chasing .000% of gains.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:21 AM #61
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not sure if this is the best place to post this, but does it matter much if you take all of a supplement at once if or if you spread it out though the day? for example, would it be better to take 6 fish oil pills at once, or 3 pills 2x daily, 2 pills 3x daily, etc?
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:15 AM #62
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not sure if this is the best place to post this, but does it matter much if you take all of a supplement at once if or if you spread it out though the day? for example, would it be better to take 6 fish oil pills at once, or 3 pills 2x daily, 2 pills 3x daily, etc?
Better to spread it out IMO.

Ex. Orange Triad, I do 2, 2, 2 with each meal.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:50 AM #63
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You take a multi??
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