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Old 07-24-2012, 06:52 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpStalker View Post
I would rather play in a tournament with people shooting AT's than Electros. As far as the ROF for an AT goes, I think 8-9 bps is quite an overestimate. I play Pump because I want to be the underdog on the field anyhow, so I don't care what everyone else is shooting.
Not an overestimate, the current speed leader at "the site which must not be named" is 9bps. Here's 8bps and as you can see it's near the limit of the human arm's capabilities and very limited in application.



(Also note the video is 3 years old)
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:03 PM #44
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is that with AT?
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:05 PM #45
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more like with an MQ valve and A/T.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:48 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basementN3k0 View Post
more like with an MQ valve and A/T.
what does MQ mean?
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:00 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
What pump arms race? Pumps have been able to shoot the same ROF for decades, the limiting factor is your arm and your aim.

Why would you cringe at a 50 round motorized hopper? I LOVE seeing hoppers like that because it tells me pump is coming back. The last time there was a production motorized hopper of 100 rounds or smaller was about 20 years ago. This tells you people want reliable feeding with LESS paint.



Laning and putting people into bunkers are skills that are employed by players in every type of paintball. You can even lane in stock class. What this tells me is you are having trouble with players outplaying you, not pumps getting faster. It can't be anyway because pumps have a hard ROF limit at 8-9 bps that has not changed for many years, nor is it likely to change because it's not the gun that makes that limit, it's the human arm.
The arms race? Same idea as what happened in the late 80's as constant air and open class hoppers came to exist.
I am seeing more and more revvies, hitman mods, converted egos... etc.

I don't have a problem with people making money and coming out with the next new thing every kid has to have. BUT, at this point the new markers can hardly be classified as pump. They are semis. Instead of pulling the trigger with your right index finger (let's assume we are shooting right handed for a moment) on a mech semi, you are pulling the "trigger" with your left index finger on the pump. The trigger on the latest "pump" guns is just an obstacle that has to be held down so that the real trigger (pump handle) can be pulled.
Of course AT has been around a long time, but with modern internals and springing the pump stroke is lighter than that of an Automag's trigger pull.

It has put a damper on the happy go lucky pump only games IMO, which used to be dominated by classic markers. It is basically speedball at this point.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:32 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apes4us View Post
The arms race? Same idea as what happened in the late 80's as constant air and open class hoppers came to exist.
I am seeing more and more revvies, hitman mods, converted egos... etc.

I don't have a problem with people making money and coming out with the next new thing every kid has to have. BUT, at this point the new markers can hardly be classified as pump. They are semis. Instead of pulling the trigger with your right index finger (let's assume we are shooting right handed for a moment) on a mech semi, you are pulling the "trigger" with your left index finger on the pump. The trigger on the latest "pump" guns is just an obstacle that has to be held down so that the real trigger (pump handle) can be pulled.
Of course AT has been around a long time, but with modern internals and springing the pump stroke is lighter than that of an Automag's trigger pull.

It has put a damper on the happy go lucky pump only games IMO, which used to be dominated by classic markers. It is basically speedball at this point.
Although you are pretty damn accurate and also being respectful( Most of you should take notes). Yes the national speedball scene is well, speedball, There are quite a few limited paint events(gravity league, OSC, etc.) that still have the classic feel to them. Check em out sometime.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:37 PM #49
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yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by ridebmx211 View Post
Although you are pretty damn accurate and also being respectful( Most of you should take notes). Yes the national speedball scene is well, speedball, There are quite a few limited paint events(gravity league, OSC, etc.) that still have the classic feel to them. Check em out sometime.
Thanks Ride! I have played an OSC event, local pump tourneys, etc. I expect those to be competitive and they deliver.
I was really referring to the non-tournament events.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:13 PM #50
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If you dont like the way the tourneys are, dont play them. pretty simple bro
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:16 PM #51
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what?

Edited out my smart *** comment
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:38 PM #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basementN3k0 View Post
more like with an MQ valve and A/T.
mQ valves are irrelevant, they have no practical effect on ROF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apes4us View Post
The arms race? Same idea as what happened in the late 80's as constant air and open class hoppers came to exist.
I am seeing more and more revvies, hitman mods, converted egos... etc.
Which of these last three things raises ROF? Only revvies, and as you stated motorized hoppers have been around since the 80s. Pumps are being made of a higher quality and better designs than ever but they absolutely do not shoot any more or faster than 20+ year old pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apes4us View Post
I don't have a problem with people making money and coming out with the next new thing every kid has to have. BUT, at this point the new markers can hardly be classified as pump. They are semis. Instead of pulling the trigger with your right index finger (let's assume we are shooting right handed for a moment) on a mech semi, you are pulling the "trigger" with your left index finger on the pump. The trigger on the latest "pump" guns is just an obstacle that has to be held down so that the real trigger (pump handle) can be pulled.
This is silly, the divorcement between trigger action and loading action is integral to the definition of pump/guns that aren't semi. You have to have automated loading in order to have a semi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apes4us View Post
Of course AT has been around a long time, but with modern internals and springing the pump stroke is lighter than that of an Automag's trigger pull.
What "modern internals" are these you speak of that raise ROF? None! It's still the same hammer-valve setup. People have been setting up their guns to have super light pump strokes for ever. The only difference is you had to polish your own stuff and figure out your own springing, but it's the exact same technology and designs.

But here's a secret, you don't need a super light pump stroke to hit maximum pump ROF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apes4us View Post
It has put a damper on the happy go lucky pump only games IMO, which used to be dominated by classic markers. It is basically speedball at this point.
Speedball is a play format, it has nothing to do with ROF or equipment.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:14 AM #53
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Quote:
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as long as one pump stroke equals one shot.

But... But.... What if it's a Ditto Deuce or a Peacemaker?



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Old 07-25-2012, 01:50 AM #54
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:50 AM #55
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Rate of fire comes straight from how fast a player can pump the marker. I have a very smooth CCM sniper and also a not nearly as smooth Empire Sniper. I find there is no difference in rate of fire between the 2 ingame. They both seem to pump at the same rate. I, myself, am not a fast pumper, but that is on me.. it has nothing to do with how my pumps are set up.

My Sniper has a hitman mod, and it does not add to rate of fire. It is a tool of convenience and comfort. I have played pump for the past 10 years, and I have not changed my style of play. That would lead me to believe that the style of play has not changed too dramatically to force me to adapt.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:44 AM #56
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So its ok as long as it has some sort of pump mechanism?
Ok makes sense. Thanks
Time to play some Paintball this weekend
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:59 AM #57
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Yep "pump" really has only 2 criteria, a separate trigger and loading mechanism, and a pump-like device that operates the loading mechanism. From there there are many classifications, niches and designs.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:28 PM #58
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So its ok as long as it has some sort of pump mechanism?
Ok makes sense. Thanks
Time to play some Paintball this weekend
Thats your response after starting this hellstorm? "Thanks" Well, im glad this whole thread wasn't for nothing.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:06 PM #59
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Thats your response after starting this hellstorm? "Thanks" Well, im glad this whole thread wasn't for nothing.
Would it be in bad taste to use a rotor on my S5?
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:53 PM #60
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Would it be in bad taste to use a rotor on my S5?
Nope



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Old 07-25-2012, 05:57 PM #61
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Force feed on pumps leads to problems but shoot what you got. Get a revy ftw =)
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:38 PM #62
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No problems for me

Agree to disagree JT
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:40 PM #63
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The only thing I don't like about using my halo on my pump is that when the balls run low it's harder to get a fix on how many you have since they don't rattle around as much.
Well that and it's way bigger than I need.
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