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Old 07-20-2012, 10:27 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FHS JewFro View Post
i think you should also have a translation for some of these as it looks like ancient hieroglyphics to me
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:38 AM #23
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Originally Posted by FHS JewFro View Post
i think you should also have a translation for some of these as it looks like ancient hieroglyphics to me
Right? I'm bad at chemistry and this thread boggles my brain.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:51 AM #24
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Originally Posted by Pirate Mafia View Post
For Craze Users:

Limit doses.
?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:50 PM #25
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One of the ingredients may have adverse effects on neural transmitters and their normal performance while not supplementing the product. Also, dendramine may have minimal adverse affects as well.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:13 PM #26
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Doesn't stop people from eating straight up nmda despite the collection in the anterior pituitary and the proven excitotoxicity


strong work for releasing a little more LH
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:41 PM #27
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All that matters is the pretty label
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:42 PM #28
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so really, limit how much/often I take?
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:46 PM #29
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You shouldnt reach the threshold where harm could be done, but I'd limit it to 1 dose/day max. As bolus effects are not studied.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:52 PM #30
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BRB, using the entire container at once to test on myself.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:02 PM #31
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Hold on, we need a double blind placebo, need one more volunteer.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:22 PM #32
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New study on vinpo, one of the few nootropics to work in healthy people @ ergo log
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:28 PM #33
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Post it up? Im too lazy right now to search
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:23 PM #34
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A little more basic, but it does apply to the majority of members in here

This chart shows that roughly 3 grams of creatine per day is needed and any more is pissed out.

Quote:


See, table #2 in this paper, Plasma guanidino compounds are altered by oral creatine supplementation in healthy humans, Wim Derave, et. al, J Appl Physiol 97: 852-857, 2004.doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.00206.2004 8750-7587/04
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:06 PM #35
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I wish their temporal resolution was better so we actually knew how long loading takes.



PM can you fulltext this? It's not really even supp related but the delivery system might be relevant

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/07/09/1207766109


http://ergo-log.com/brain-works-bett...npocetine.html
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:43 AM #36
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Can we post pdf files on here? I might be able to rip the file and save it instead of all these screenshots.






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Old 07-24-2012, 09:19 AM #37
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Not sure . I could host it on
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:23 AM #38
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Shoot me your email again, I ripped the file so I could send it to you as an attachment.

Edit- Actually dont care, posting for my reference.
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Last edited by Pirate Mafia : 07-24-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:18 AM #39
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DAA Vs NMDA

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
NMDA along with DAA create brain damage when applied directly to, or injected into ones brain. As long as you're not injecting this stuff into your cranium your A-OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
There are studies showing excitotoxicity through oral ingestion.


NMDA cannot be 100x as potent as DAA, unfortunately, because NMDA in any dosage reaching close to the dosage of DAA, becomes neurotoxic and can have very bad adverse side effects.

So dosing in lower dosages is the only safe way to dose NMDA.

DAA, on the other hand, doesn't have any negative effects.

So in essence, the way you're stating potency, is only in the dosage quantity. If you can't take more of a potent supplement than 1/100 of the dose, then what good is 100% more potency doing for you? Nothing. Props to the marketing team.
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Potency always refers to gram for gram effects. NMDA is 100x more potent than DAA at activating the NMDAR, but it is not more effective as you mentioned. I agree that net NMDAR agonism will be equal, or even higher in the DAA group given DAA -> NMDA conversion en vivo.
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DAA raises test by 42%, I believe there was a study stating this. So if Intimidate has 100x the testosterone production compared to DAA, as stated in their advertisement, 42% x 100 = 4200% increase in testosterone. brb arnold in a week.

Does Intimidate (NMDA) go directly to the NMDA Receptor?

Yes, it does.
The NMDA receptor controls the Glutamate levels in the system. These Glutamate levels are toxins that cause excess Ca^2+ ions to be released, which in effect damage various cells throughout the neuro system, including the cytosol is the opening of the mitochondrial permeability transition pore. This pore is the control valve for ATP production (Muscle Fuel) which is used for energy during the anabolic process. So the immediate impact of the NMDA receptor agonist, is basically a better cleaning system, so that your anabolic process doesn't get clogged up.

The secondary benefit of the NMDA receptor agonist is the affect on Protein Kinase, which are small molecules that have multiple functions, including genome production and cellular location.

Testosterone uses protein kinase as a building blocks, which is exactly how LH (luteinizing hormone) affects testosterone as shown in this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1164259/

In essence, by going direct to the NMDA receptor, and effecting protein kinase, you're skipping the LH release that other natural test boosters are trying to stimulate.
...
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:07 AM #40
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When I first started researching NMDA, I was considering marketing it as a nutritional supplement. After delving in deeper however, a couple of things made me change my mind. First of all, I contacted the patent inventor to see if I could get some more information on NMDA. He regretfully told me that his later research failed to confirm his earlier findings, and that he had deemed the project not worthy of further pursuit. I also discovered that NMDA is potentially quite toxic and may destroy neurons in sensitive areas of the brain like the hippocampus and the basal ganglia. NMDA might also have the capacity to induce convulsions in susceptible individuals.

So what, if any, lesson was learned from this dead end research endeavor? Well, I did receive a clear reminder never to jump to conclusions based upon limited evidence – particularly never to make assumptions based solely upon patent information (which is not subject to peer review and is notoriously inaccurate). If only the marketers of the “flavor of the month” supplement 5-methyl-7-methoxy-isoflavone would have heeded such advice; perhaps consumers would have been saved from what is, in my opinion, yet another supplement disappointment.
Quote:
Dude, I really don't even wanna give you a hard time right now but I have to call out bad science when I see it. That's not what this board is about, go run that kinda game to the 14 year olds on bodybuilding.com

First off, you're saying that NMDA isn't excitotoxic at all and you back that up with a study which measures the effect of creatine on NMDA INDUCED EXCITOTOXICTY. How ironic can you get? Unless you have documentation on their methodology showing that they directly injected the NMDA, this abstract is making a case against your argument, if anything.

Second, you said excitotoxicity was "basically non-existant" with the coadministration of creatine and niacin. Here's the actual graph from your study showing the effects of creatine and niacin against the control on NMDA induced excitotoxicity http://ars.sciencedirect.com/content...020382-gr2.gif


What does that reduction work out to? maybe 20-30% reduction vs control? Is that really your definition of "basically non-existant" bro?


Listen kids, not everyone on these boards has the time to decipher medical journals, that's why they come here for advice. It ruins the whole principle of these boards when someone tries to throw studies around and totally twist them around because the lay-person cant understand them. Let me take all of the science mumbo jumbo out of the equation here and simplify the argument vaughn is trying to make right now...


In a nutshell, his post is saying..."Our product isnt poisionous to your brain because there's a study that shows when you take creatine and niacin, it makes it less 30 percent less poisionous to your brain. My product is meant to be ingested orally, while the abstract I provided doesn't specificy how it was given to the test subjects which makes it completely irrelevant, if not contrary to my argument altogether."
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:57 AM #41
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They are so full of **** strong suspicion bloodwork will show lh increase
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:09 PM #42
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Can I....can I just use whey...
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