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Old 06-27-2011, 01:31 AM #1
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Icarus V1

A short while back i bought bobfromaccounting's 'Tinkers lot', which included his early design for Icarus (currently posted in this forum).

After I finished building my 'new' Excalibur, (also part of the lot) I got started on this. the design itself is courtesy of Bobfromaccounting. its a Closed-Bolt Spool Valve design. Me being who I am; I like off-beat designs, be it cars (rotary, VR6, engines that don't exist in production cars), paintball, ETC. So, naturally, this caught my eye.

SO
On to what little of a build log I have for it:
WARNING... it may be slightly confusing. If Details are needed on a certain part, just ask.


First things first, I needed to figure out a way to not only hold the gun, but fire it as well. Another part that came with the lot was a UL frame w/board. Perfect, saves me from getting a frame, now I just needed a way to mount it to the gun.

That's where Map gas, Alumiweld (harbor freight) and aluminum strips from Lowes come in. After a little time, some not-so-accurate measuring and a few burnt fingers, this arrives;


I drilled and tapped a few holes for the frame, and so the tray would bolt to the body. Afterwards I cut out the center of the tray to match the interior contours of the frame (to make it easier to route wires)

Next I used some of my extra double sided copper clad PCB (Radio shack) and traced the stock board and cut it out. I then cut out channels where I needed power to flow on the board, and marked it up with a black Sharpie;


The boards next to each other with the mask removed;


The connection on the top was made with a SATA hard drive connector (I had a dead laptop drive and a few extra SATA cables laying around). It went together fairly smooth, until the on/off button refused to work. I eventually found out it was the trace to the connector. It was too thin, and some etchant got underneath the sharpie mask. This was an easy fix, I just direct-wired it with solid-core 24Ga wire. (not visible in the picture, its on the other side of the board):


I realized I needed an eye control button, and I first thought "I don't have anything to ground it with only one of the 7 connections left", but after looking at the membrane pad, I saw it used the same ground for both buttons. I made that open connection the positive, and grounded it to the existing buttons' ground: (bad pic, but the line on the thin portion of the board is the new button wired up)



After long and tedious tinkering, the SMC123A solenoid I purchased for the build just wouldn't cut it. Not enough air-flow to allow the marker to function. Kinda painful, 40 for the noid, another 15 for barbs (2-90* and a straight) and 35 for the t-board. I seem to have found out the hard way that it must be the spyder version, seeing as the wires that are supposed to power the Evalve noid refuse to power it, but the clapper noid wires work fine. I tested the noid on the WGP SF board I received from a friend (thanks again, Stealth) and it worked fine there.


I decided I'd rather have a mechanical 'cocker, so I took the frame and started tinkering with it on Icarus. Huge Success! it fires with no issue! (Dry-fire, no eyes yet, and i never looked at the breach, so i didn't notice the problem a few paragraphs down)

I start part-gathering again and eventually end up with 2 QEV's that I placed on the body, however not where I'd want them to be. The original pathways for these parts were under the body, but after I broke a tap in the rear inlet I had to move where the rear air-inlet went. The side of the body was a perfectly logical place, so, I drilled a hole, was EXTRA careful with the tap, and I now had a QEV on the back, then I put one on the front, and began building the new tray to fit the e-frame.


Now, you might be wondering "Wait, if you broke the tap in the hole, what did you do to stop the air from rushing past it?"
Your answer: Alumiweld. I didn't trust it to hold the air, but it seems to be working fine. no leaks so far!

The SF board needed to be replaced with a board that would allow adjustments to dwell. Even with the eye ( horribly ) drilled in place, it would see the bolt as a ball and close after a little less than a half stroke. This was due to the timing built into the SF board. Icarus has a slower open time for the bolt than the SF was programmed for, therefore it thought it saw a ball when it really saw the bolt, and closed. I needed a board where i could adjust timing. I grabbed an E1 board (Thanks FoidPoosening) and programmed the clapper noid to have no 'on' time, and set the time between the clapper and Evalve noid to 0, then started playing with timing for the noid to be open, to which 45MS seemed to be the sweet spot.
E1 Board in place:

I drilled the back of the frame so I could see the screen and use the buttons. Its not pretty, tho i'll take pics if anyone wants to see.


Then, being almost nearly done, I took it out for a quick shoot (just a hopper full, though this vid is much shorter than the whole hopper due to issues with the gun)
http://youtu.be/ubMYDtImYvY

After the cut from the speed test, i took it over the Chrono. It was shooting a steady 190FPS, so I started bumping the PSI. I got it up to 235FPS before the solenoid started leaking from the gasket. I have no idea what pressure this thing runs at yet, so i'm not sure if i have too much pressure going to the noid, or what. I still need to grab a 300 and 600 PSI gauge and see what the deal is.


TL;DR
read it

I'm open to questions if anyone has any
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Old 06-27-2011, 06:22 AM #2
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I really liked how the electronics connected between the frame and body with the ultralite frame. I makes removing the trigger frame so easy because you don't have to mess with unplugging tiny connectors or even opening the grips.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:44 AM #3
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That was the best part about that frame, all i had to do to remove the frame was just 2 bolts and the sata connector. however, the T-board was still inside the tray, so i still had to remove the tray to do anything. As soon as i find the pictres ill upload one of the tray contents. Ill see if i still have a pic of the body how it looked when it was sent to me as well.

*Edit*
found the UL setup:




body pic:



and finally the frame from the back. Center button has my old PMR frame button inverted and silicone glued in place so i am able to turn it on and off. The opening for the screen isn't pretty, the only tools i had were a drill press and a dremel with worn bits...
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:26 AM #4
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Free bold for a cool guy and a cool gun! Thats my e1 board! good luck with the pressures and higher fps man!
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:56 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoidPoosening View Post
Free bold for a cool guy and a cool gun! Thats my e1 board! good luck with the pressures and higher fps man!
Sure is, although possibly slightly different than you remember it. Pressure springs holding the battery in place always makes me uncomfortable, so i took them off and dropped one of my extra 9v holders in place.

Thanks again Foid!
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Old 06-27-2011, 06:59 PM #6
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Neat man, neat.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:50 PM #7
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Were you at ion with this thing
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:55 PM #8
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yup! i shot my excal for a bit, but it was having issues, then decided to play a game with this. ended up playing all day saturday then sunday with it.

i'm actually in the process of getting a CP 1-pc for it, cutting it to length (the inside is shorter than a normal cocker, so it needs to have a cocker threaded barrel cut down) then sending it to the guy on MCB forums to get it bored for freak inserts. Skirmish paint was so small (the barrel i have now is huge, .693) that i'd take one shot, and the force of the bolt returning to the rest position pushed the ball out of the barrel. so a freak-bored CP will solve at least one of many issues it still has.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:09 PM #9
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I'm the guy that was shooting the **** with you that had the half blocked pump cocker!
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:27 PM #10
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aah cool. continued via PM's
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Old 07-26-2011, 06:11 PM #11
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Skirmish paint is super small. I had a .679 in and was still getting some roll out with my cockers. That's why I went down and picked up the two new inserts they came out. .677 an .675 I think.
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Old 07-26-2011, 06:27 PM #12
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yeah man, crazy small paint. i used my .682 in my excal with minimal rollout, but because of it having multiple issues (shootdown and such) i hopped to Icarus, and was stuck with one barrel size. i'm glad that buy on MCB does freak barrel boring.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:36 PM #13
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as much as i hate to necro a thread, i figured its only fair seeing as i'm the owner of said thread and i have a relevant update
(<((0))> is my old account, before i had a team name, i plan on using this account, Mr. Wizard, from now on)

i bought a mini-cocker VA and a drop, thus removing the Max-flo and relocating both the LPR (old handle) up front and having a vert reg.



still having pressure issues, probably only solved by buying a buena-70 o-ring kit.... the 90's keep getting cut every time i put in/remove the bolt kit...
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:53 PM #14
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If the orings are getting cut, couldn't you just flex hone the inner bore? Sounds like you've got burrs in the internal air passages entering the bolt bore.
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:36 AM #15
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if only i had the tools to fix these problems. unfortunately the body and bolt kit were made by someone else (bobfromaccounting) years ago, i purchased it from him and 'finished' it.

if i had my way (access to lathes, mills, CNC machine, etc) i'd rebuild the marker entirely.
or just build my marker designs...

i've done what i can to limit the amount of cutting that happens on the o-rings, and its not burrs, but tolerances. tight tolerance = bound o-ring (think AKA markers and their o-rings)
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:16 PM #16
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Is there a functional reason you can't loosen those tolerances with that flex hone? Tight tolerances aren't always necessarily a good thing.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:41 PM #17
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You could also try using a smaller o-ring and stretching it to fit, that might work out (assuming it'll still seal).
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:43 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russc View Post
Is there a functional reason you can't loosen those tolerances with that flex hone? Tight tolerances aren't always necessarily a good thing.
please excuse me being blunt about it, but i've already stated why:
i do not have the tools to do this.

when i get a bigger place, i'm buying a lathe and i'm rebuilding this marker entirely, fixing its problems. (or more correctly, attempting to fix the problems i've had with its current design)

*edit*
i also just thought of another reason why a hone wouldn't work:
where the air breaches wouldn't benefit from any kind of tooling. its a prototype flaw that would be corrected in a revision


Quote:
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You could also try using a smaller o-ring and stretching it to fit, that might work out (assuming it'll still seal).
i've been around the block trying to get this thing working properly, i have the smallest possible o-ring i can find, however all i have is a buena-90 o-ring kit. i need a 70 kit (within a few months i'll buy one) and try those out.

i took it to ION again this year (this past weekend) and i had it shooting 245-250 (last year was 150-180, above 170 it leaked though), which was tolerable. if my helmet-cam recorded anything (issues... issues everywhere) i'll see if i got action footage and post it in the video forums.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:09 PM #19
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I've been intrigued about this marker for some time.. wish I could see the guts.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:36 PM #20
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Quote:
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I've been intrigued about this marker for some time.. wish I could see the guts.
soon... i have to clean it ("have" being a loose term, its hardly dirty, even by my standards) and i'll snap a pic of the internals then (probably tomorrow afternoon)
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:24 AM #21
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had one on my phone from the last time i took it apart... enjoy:



back to front in super-simplistic terms: plug, moving rod (rear), 'top hat' can, moving rod (front, permanently attached to center rod), bolt

the plug is just a plug, it makes a chamber behind the bolt for the black QEV's air to accumulate in the resting position. this pushes the center rod forward, allowing the HPA (or operating pressure) to pass through the body into the dump chamber behind the bolt.

fire the marker, and air is released from the QEV, allowing the chambered air to force the center rod back, opening the center of the bolt and firing the ball, and the switched air is now moving the bolt back (o-ring inside of the body between the bolts ring and before the breech) as well as the center rod back (there is a ridge on the rod behind the bolt so that the bolt catched the rod)

ball loads, and air is returned to the black QEV, pushing the center rod forward (as well as the bolt partially) and once the tapered/o-ringed portion of the rod passes the front of the can, the dump chamber fills with air, pushing the bolt back forward.

only moving parts are the center rod, and bolt, the can is upside-down in the pic, there is a hole where the QEV is on the can relative to the body.

the green o-ring is an ION o-ring that fit, and allowed me to bring the pressure up to shoot around 250 fps without an air-breach (if air passes that ring, the rear QEV leaks, and dis-allows the center rod to stay forward, therefore halting the markers operation)
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