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Old 07-04-2012, 01:55 AM #22
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If you're drunk you're not legally carrying.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:57 AM #23
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If you're drunk you're not legally carrying.
From a practical standpoint, it's obvious that people will carry in an unstable environment such as a bar or fraternity party before they carry in math class.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:58 AM #24
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From a practical standpoint, it's obvious that people will carry in an unstable environment such as a bar or fraternity party before they carry in math class.
Then they're not legally carrying and what's to stop them from carrying anyways? You can't legally carry in a bar or while drinking.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:01 AM #25
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Then they're not legally carrying and what's to stop them from carrying anyways? You can't legally carry in a bar or while drinking.
I'm well aware of that. The difference is that without a change in the law, they have to illegally carry through the whole campus on the way to drink. It's not just a matter of keeping quiet once you arrive at your destination. This is especially relevant in the event that the person in question is walking to or from their destination, when contact with the police is more likely. This may sound petty, but in practice it makes sense.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:03 AM #26
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I'm well aware of that. The difference is that without a change in the law, they have to illegally carry through the whole campus on the way to drink. It's not just a matter of keeping quiet once you arrive at your destination. This is especially relevant in the event that the person in question is walking to or from their destination, when contact with the police is more likely. This may sound petty, but in practice it makes sense.
So keep the whole campus off limits so no one carries where it's already off limits? Why do we even allow CCW if we can just outlaw guns period and preclude those who may take guns illegally into bars, from being able to legally carry the gun to the bar.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:07 AM #27
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So keep the whole campus off limits so no one carries where it's already off limits? Why do we even allow CCW if we can just outlaw guns period and preclude those who may take guns illegally into bars, from being able to legally carry the gun to the bar.
People suck. You set the bar higher than it needs to be, and when they inevitably fail to reach it, they end up right where you wanted them in the first place.

No need to be overly dramatic about CCW. I said I support it but don't see college campuses as the right environment.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:08 AM #28
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People suck. You set the bar higher than it needs to be, and when they inevitably fail to reach it, they end up right where you wanted them in the first place.

No need to be overly dramatic about CCW. I said I support it but don't see college campuses as the right environment.
Your reason given isn't specific to a college environment and works out just fine in the normal world.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:10 AM #29
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Your reason given isn't specific to a college environment and works out just fine in the normal world.
Given the controlled, generally isolated environment of a college campus, it's a much more reasonable policy there than in the normal world.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:11 AM #30
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Given the controlled, generally isolated environment of a college campus, it's a much more reasonable policy there than in the normal world.
You must go to a small college, mine's not controlled nor isolated which is exactly the reason CCW should be permitted.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:15 AM #31
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You must go to a small college, mine's not controlled nor isolated which is exactly the reason CCW should be permitted.
40,000 students is small?
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:23 AM #32
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40,000 students is small?
If you find that your campus is isolated and controlled, it can't be that big. We've had numerous armed robberies on campus due to the fact that our campus is spread out and close to not so nice neighborhoods as a result of said expansion. Our schools have the same number of students, but I suspect yours is much more compact. Notice all the roads that lend themselves to jumping into a car and driving off after a robbery which happens often.

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Old 07-05-2012, 12:12 PM #33
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On a college campus filled with thousands and thousands of students, are you comfortable with inexperienced shooters firing guns outdoors hoping to prevent a robbery? Given the number of cocky college drunkards I see get into bar fights regularly, it's always in the back of my mind that one could pull a gun, and any armed citizen would be a fool to shoot the offender in a crowded bar - yes, it's illegal to carry drunk in a bar, but so is physical assault.

I see this leaving colleges with a lot of potential liability, especially when you miss and hit a student instead of the guy that stole your bike. I hold human life in very high regard, and to me, the risk far outweighs the potential reward. I support concealed carry so that citizens have a way to protect their own life, not to shoot anyone in violation of the law.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm imagining worst-case scenarios. It would be great if everyone with a CCW is a responsible gun owner that can stay calm under extreme pressure, make good decisions, and weigh the risks prior to putting their finger anywhere near the trigger. Sadly, that isn't the world we live in, which is why I feel the need to focus on the negative aspects if we want to improve them.

Last edited by Worr, the wee tot. : 07-05-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:48 PM #34
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Remove college campus from that and replace it with Walmart. What's the difference?
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:51 PM #35
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How many outdoor Walmarts are there with thousands and thousands of cocky college kids?
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:16 PM #36
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How many outdoor Walmarts are there with thousands and thousands of cocky college kids?
So everyone's going to automatically have a CCW?
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:21 PM #37
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No. I'm just saying, you said to look at his post and replace college campus with Walmart. Which, given the other details he posted doesn't really work.

Everyone won't automatically have a CCW, but it wouldn't really be far fetched to guess that out of 100 people in Walmart, and thousands of people on campus, there will be more concealed weapons.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:26 PM #38
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No. I'm just saying, you said to look at his post and replace college campus with Walmart. Which, given the other details he posted doesn't really work.

Everyone won't automatically have a CCW, but it wouldn't really be far fetched to guess that out of 100 people in Walmart, and thousands of people on campus, there will be more concealed weapons.
There are more than 100 people in Walmart at any given time during the day by a university and out of those thousands of people on campus, how many can legally get a CCW? Remember, you have to be over 21 to qualify for a CCW. Just because you give people with CCW's the opportunity to carry on campus isn't going to mean there are suddenly thousands of weapons on campus. Also, who's going to rob when there are a ton of people around? They don't, it's when you're alone, no one's around to help you and you need the gun the most.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:36 PM #39
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There are more than 100 people in Walmart at any given time during the day by a university and out of those thousands of people on campus, how many can legally get a CCW? Remember, you have to be over 21 to qualify for a CCW.
I still don't see your point with over 100 people in Walmart at any given time. Sure, that's true, but the number of people in Walmart at one time, and the number of kids walking in that-sized area on campus at one time aren't comparable at any college campus I've been to.

This is anecdotal, but most people I know have said the only reason they haven't gotten their CCW yet is because they spend most of their time on campus and can't carry anyway.

I'm having a hard time finding general age demographics, but (again, this is anecdotal) there are quite a few 21+ undegrads here at ECU that are legally capable of getting their CCW.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:45 PM #40
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I still don't see your point with over 100 people in Walmart at any given time. Sure, that's true, but the number of people in Walmart at one time, and the number of kids walking in that-sized area on campus at one time aren't comparable at any college campus I've been to.

This is anecdotal, but most people I know have said the only reason they haven't gotten their CCW yet is because they spend most of their time on campus and can't carry anyway.

I'm having a hard time finding general age demographics, but (again, this is anecdotal) there are quite a few 21+ undegrads here at ECU that are legally capable of getting their CCW.
My point is if you switch venue nothing is out of the ordinary. I highly doubt people would CCW to class as it's another thing to weigh you down and get in your way of sitting in class. I wouldn't care if they limited the ability to carry to after hours as that's the only time things get sketchy out here.

The being drunk and carrying weapons scenario isn't limited to college and plays out just fine, typically. Why does a college campus change that?
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:53 PM #41
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Well I know there is a group at Ohio State that is trying to get concealed carry allowed on campus, but their main reason isn't for protection on campus. Their main point is that students that live off campus deserve the right to protect themselves walking home. If you can't bring your gun on campus (which there is enough police on campus, where it isn't necessary), then you have to walk home without it. Lately there have been quite a few students getting robbed right outside of campus. OSU has its own police force, but they are not allowed to patrol off campus. The Columbus police don't patrol the areas where most osu students live off-campus often enough. They usually stay closer to downtown (where there is more crime), but I think the gangs have realized there are easy pickens closer to campus.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:55 PM #42
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My point is if you switch venue nothing is out of the ordinary. I highly doubt people would CCW to class as it's another thing to weigh you down and get in your way of sitting in class. I wouldn't care if they limited the ability to carry to after hours as that's the only time things get sketchy out here.

The being drunk and carrying weapons scenario isn't limited to college and plays out just fine, typically. Why does a college campus change that?
Well, I've never used the drunk kid argument, so I won't bother to debate that line.

My original post in this thread pretty much outlines my thoughts on the issue. I feel like the major difference is the density of people. The same reason private music venues, for instance, won't allow CCW.

As far as doubting people would carry to class, we could just as easily guess the other way. And it might not change much in the way of thinking about it, as there's less likelihood for something to happen during the day, other than some crazy kid shooting up the school.
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