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Old 06-29-2012, 12:28 PM #1
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
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question of the day. more important than the most important question

Prerequisites: there is no form of objective deity whatsoever.

There is no God which gives objective value to human life or life in general. Thus there is no true inherent value to life or the cosmos.

On what qualification do we give a life, specifically a human life, value?

On what qualification, do we give ALL human life value?

(Don't post here with anything saying, "but there is a God" that is not the point here. Keep it in your pants.)
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:38 PM #2
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If you base it on the rarity of our constituent elements, not much. We're made of some of the most common elements in the universe.

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Old 06-29-2012, 12:47 PM #3
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Its a philosophical question. I'm not looking for a debate. Just looking to learn.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:06 PM #4
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We value human life because we need others in order to survive and reproduce. We're a social animal accustomed to living in packs. Therefore we protect our own and that branches out to everyone else because we recognize they are helping someone else just like us to survive as well as helping the species reproduce and carry on.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:12 PM #5
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Our qualification is purely internal. The vast majority of us are hard-wired to continue living because we deem our personal existence as important. It's due to this in an evolutionary process that we even exist today. My value for human life is the value of my own life, much like how your value for human life is built off how you value your own life.

I'll agree that this isn't objective at all. It is merely subjective, differing from one person to the next. But I don't think that discredits its truth. We, as a species, don't need to exist a all. But I, as an individual need to exist because I'm hardwired to believe so. Without this hardwired belief, we wouldn't feel the need to reproduce and exist, thus we wouldn't exist.

That's probably a horrible way to explain what I'm trying to say, but I'll give it a starting point at least.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:59 PM #6
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Yes this is subjective subject matter.

What I think youre trying to say is that human life is valuable because we all share the same will to survive.

If that statement is correct, care to flesh it out more? I'm curious why you choose that biological drive to characterize the value of all human life, perhaps all life on general if we take that far enough.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:06 PM #7
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^Speaking for myself, it's just how things are. Would you ask bacteria why they reproduce? People may try to come up with noble ideas as to why we value human life, but it all really boils down to wanting to survive and reproduce.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:19 PM #8
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So the desire to reproduced gives value to human life? A sort of unconscious desire to see its survival? Or is it merely the survival of your genes?

Taking a side step around biology for a minute. When you see another person, do they have value to you? If so, why?
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:36 PM #9
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At a base level it's probably about the survival of your genes. And this is coming from someone who doesn't want kids.

In all honesty I've never given it much thought. But I suppose that is determined by how I see them. If they're just some person I see on the street who I don't have any interaction with (that includes eye contact) then I probably don't see any value in them. But if I interact with them in any way or was to see them in danger I would at that point probably see value in them. This isn't because I'm callous, it's because we're all locked in our own world. It also probably is good evidence that it's merely about the survival of our individual genes.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:57 PM #10
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There's no need to try and be objective. Do you value all human life? Do you value some human life? Something along those lines. If you have political views you must be able to.answer
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:34 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Yes this is subjective subject matter.

What I think youre trying to say is that human life is valuable because we all share the same will to survive.

If that statement is correct, care to flesh it out more? I'm curious why you choose that biological drive to characterize the value of all human life, perhaps all life on general if we take that far enough.
Well, I'm stating that as a whole, there is no value for human life. The value we adhere to our fellow men and women is derived from the values we give ourselves. We are hardwired to survive; we have a fear of death - or, at least, premature death.

Personally, I enjoy the possibilities of the limited time frame I've given. I enjoy experiencing happiness. I enjoy playing games, listening to music, learning, sex, and many other things. The whole reason we have any value whatsoever is due to the fact that we have limited amount of time to do so. Death is the very core of our value for life and from that core value stems out multiple interpretations as to what is valued in life and what isn't, almost all of which coming from personal experiences and knowledge (which can be utilized with empathy to care for others that have been in situations we have yet to personally experience).

Don't know if I'm actually getting anywhere for you. Haha.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:38 PM #12
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For me personally, I assign and see value in other people because I can identify with them. We are all humans, and more or less, go through very similar experiences while alive. We also all "just got here." And before we each "got here," there were already all these crazy games going on in the world, which we have had to adapt to. There isn't a manual to live life the "right way" because there really isn't one "right way," which goes with the discussion of this thread.

Taking out the god thing, there isn't really an objective value to anything, as value is a concept that people assign to other people/things.

I assign value to other people, as a part of my desire to be understood my self, and to connect with others. So, obviously my friends and family whom I most identify with, or who best understand and car about me, will have more subjective value, than a bum on the street.

But because I know of hardship, suffering, joy, fear, and loneliness, I can relate and identify with mt fellow man, even if I don't know anything else about the person. I know they feel and think about essentially the same things as I do. And this eases my human loneliness.

And I think loneliness, as we are social animals, plays a large role in why religion is so common amongst our species. What better way to eradicate loneliness than having an all caring, all knowing, all assuring entity that can share your thoughts and reality with you? I can spend my whole life getting to know one person, but never fully see things the exact way they do. A belief in a god can fill that role. Taking away the mythology if it all, this is a pretty pleasant idea.

More to the point of this thread, I'll again say that value of humans can be derived from out mutual understandings and sentiments. We can start by knowing that we are all much the same, and share the same basic wants and needs. Everyone is largely the main character in their lives. Everyone's life matters, and is valuable to themselves.

We could also say that most people have value to those who car about them, and have a vested interest in their lives, or simply they are people who others would prefer continued to be a part of their lives. My friend is valuable to me, because that friend enhances the quality of my life. A person has "value" to a society, when they become a key part of the well-being of that society.

None of this is to say that one person has more value than any other person, as like mentioned already, value is subjective based on who is trying to determine it.

/typing out loud.

EDIT: And pertaining to non human life having value, I feel like the same words above still mostly apply. We are alive, and know what that means. Life that is not self-aware still shares many feelings/perceptions, and independently operate within our universe with us. We've all gone from inanimate matter, to life. In terms of being the senses of the universe, I see great value there as well.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:45 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
There's no need to try and be objective. Do you value all human life? Do you value some human life? Something along those lines. If you have political views you must be able to.answer
Putting it that way, I value some human life. I don't feel like everyone deserves to live. Mass murderers, psychopaths etc don't have any value to me.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:46 PM #14
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I would guess that most of our value of life would be based upon ego.

ALL human life ? Probably potential would be the qualification.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:51 PM #15
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typing again..

I work at a place where it is part of our principles that every person has value. I am in agreement with that sentiment, which is likely why I enjoy my job so much.

I get to see how the people with developmental disabilities and mental health needs see and interpret the world. Their view of the world is very different than the way most people see it. But they still have the same feelings, and face many of the same challenges (And more) as most people. They also, "just got here." My job has enabled my to truly get to know these people, and anytime you get to know another person, you enable yourself to see their value.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:01 PM #16
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I would guess that most of our value of life would be based upon ego.
I think we would do best to keep Freudian pseudo-psychology and all of its connotations out of a debate like this.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:05 PM #17
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If you value your own life, and accept that we're self-interested individuals, but don't believe all human life is valuable, do you believe that lives that are deemed valuable are equally valuable to your own or do you think you're the most valuable thing in regards to your subjective values?
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:17 PM #18
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I think we would do best to keep Freudian pseudo-psychology and all of its connotations out of a debate like this.
I forget, purely subjective answers need to be debated.

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Old 06-29-2012, 04:24 PM #19
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Originally Posted by Vit Beeyer View Post
If you value your own life, and accept that we're self-interested individuals, but don't believe all human life is valuable, do you believe that lives that are deemed valuable are equally valuable to your own or do you think you're the most valuable thing in regards to your subjective values?
I don't think value of a person can be quantified, exactly. To a soccer mom, her van might be seen as more valuable than her husband's sports car. But to the husband, that car may represent the bond between him and his father, who restored it. But if the time came to sell one or the other, a discussion subjective to the needs and goals of the family would have to decipher which is the greater value, for the family. Sentimental vs practical. Neither is always more valuable. It depends on what the assigned value is being used or accrued for, or what the need is for that value....I'm high though, so forgive me if some of these thoughts are off the mark, sappy, idealistic, or just incoherent. mah bad.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:38 PM #20
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hey brah I'm high also. I couldn't have conversations on here if I wasn't. I asked that question to be a jackass more than anything

I just wanted to see everyone say in an intellectual manner that the world revolves around them.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:39 PM #21
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If you value your own life, and accept that we're self-interested individuals, but don't believe all human life is valuable, do you believe that lives that are deemed valuable are equally valuable to your own or do you think you're the most valuable thing in regards to your subjective values?
That's one of those questions you can only answer at a certain time. Like the what would you do if someone put a gun to your head and said give me all your money. People might say I would say no or knock the gun out of his hand, but until it happens you don't know what you'd do.

The same goes here. Would I give my life for someone else? I think so, but don't know for sure. If there were a situation where the world was ending and we built a space ship to escape we would have to choose who got on the ship. If I were in charge I would try to pick the individuals whose skills best guaranteed our survival but I may break down and invite my loved ones or enact a lottery to be fair.

But if we're not in that kind of situation, I don't value any one person above another outside of the people closest to me.
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