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Old 06-26-2012, 04:12 PM #43
SupraSuper
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Well, because I believe that women should wear the veil. If someone else has a different interpretation or feels that modern times don't have Muslim women in harms way for the reason that the Prophet Muhammad originally encouraged it, then them dressing modestly without hijab is enough. Am I suppose to kill them or something? The wearing of hijab has been on and off for thousands of years in the Muslim world through a number of different political and social landscapes. Women in Egypt didn't really start wearing it until the 1950's. The entire issue of hijab is not just "theyre forced to wear it, they're opressed.
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:14 PM #44
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I don't advocate coercing anyone to do anything.
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Hijab is an obligation and a necessity for every Muslim woman
Then why aren't you objecting to this guy?
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Well, because I believe that women should wear the veil.
These statements are logically inconsistent.
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:14 PM #45
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her virtues and worth in this world go far beyond what her body looks like.
Is this a justification to marry 9 year-olds?
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:16 PM #46
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These statements are logically inconsistent.
How? I think they should wear it, but if they don't think they should I'm not going to coerce them to.
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:19 PM #47
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Is this a justification to marry 9 year-olds?
Was marrying young uncommon during those times? I was unaware that Aishas age during her marriage to Muhammad was a sweeping concern to the Muslims.
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:30 PM #48
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How? I think they should wear it, but if they don't think they should I'm not going to coerce them to.
Then I ask again, why are you not objecting to the man who declares it an obligation and necessity?
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:01 PM #49
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Because I do, but I can't force someone who doesn't to feel the same way as me
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:10 PM #50
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Do you not understand the definition of obligation or necessity?
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:11 PM #51
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I've enjoyed watching this battle of extremes. Very entertaining depiction of the failure of multiculturalism. Both sides bicker until one is destroyed. Fantastic.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:18 PM #52
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I haven't heard of most Muslims say it's entirely the woman's fault for being raped if she doesn't dress modestly, but I also don't think we should pretend that a woman's body and seduction has no power over a man which can influence the man into committing a terrible crime. Obviously the man is entirely responsible for his own actions, but the good thing about Islam is that it recognizes, to a degree, the obvious dynamics of life and nature, and doesn't try to pretend that they don't exist like the liberals of today.
Research on the psychology of rapists would suggest otherwise.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:21 PM #53
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Was marrying young uncommon during those times? I was unaware that Aishas age during her marriage to Muhammad was a sweeping concern to the Muslims.
1 - Yes, it was uncommon.

2 - If you're cool with a 9 year-old being married to a man 45 years older than her, then all the power to ya, bud...

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I've enjoyed watching this battle of extremes. Very entertaining depiction of the failure of multiculturalism. Both sides bicker until one is destroyed. Fantastic.
If nobody is being denied freedom of choice and nobody is being harmed, how exactly is an argument such as this a failure of multiculturalism?
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:23 PM #54
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I've enjoyed watching this battle of extremes. Very entertaining depiction of the failure of multiculturalism. Both sides bicker until one is destroyed. Fantastic.
Multiculturalism can only go as far as the cultures being brought together allow. It does not mean multiculturalism cannot work or is a failure, it simply means the cultures being brought together must allow for a measure of divergence and convergence between them.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:28 PM #55
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I think it's a misnomer to say that a multiculturalism that works allows for divergence and convergence. That isn't multiculturalism, that's the creation of one singular new culture at the cost of destroying the old cultures. Hence, it's a failure. It leads to violence or it kills the underlying cultures.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:32 PM #56
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Multiculturalism can only go as far as the cultures being brought together allow. It does not mean multiculturalism cannot work or is a failure, it simply means the cultures being brought together must allow for a measure of divergence and convergence between them.
They cannot coexist. Converge or die. Not literally but you know what I mean. It ain't multiculturalism anymore though.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:34 PM #57
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I think it's a misnomer to say that a multiculturalism that works allows for divergence and convergence. That isn't multiculturalism, that's the creation of one singular new culture at the cost of incorporating the old cultures. It leads to violence or it absorbs the underlying cultures.
FTFY

Nothing wrong with creating something new.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:01 PM #58
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FTFY

Nothing wrong with creating something new.
Can you cite such an example of that in the real world? Or is this another "I wish people would accept that they don't have an answer for everything" kinda wish?
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:36 PM #59
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Can you cite such an example of that in the real world? Or is this another "I wish people would accept that they don't have an answer for everything" kinda wish?
First thing that comes to mind would be the Romans absorbing Greek culture among others.

Nice pot-shot btw.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:33 PM #60
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First thing that comes to mind would be the Romans absorbing Greek culture among others.

Nice pot-shot btw.
A good first thing to come to mind would be a modern example that could provide insights into our modern cultural-political dynamic. Your example is anything but.

Whether or not that was a pot-shot doesn't mean that I'm not right.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:37 PM #61
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This conversation is very interesting to me and very not worth having with someone like you.

Hope this account lasts longer than your last one.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:40 PM #62
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Do you not understand the definition of obligation or necessity?
Holy hell Umami, I didn't realize you were this stupid.

Just because I BELIEVE that wearing the hijab obligatory doesn't mean I need to force someone WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE IT IS OBLIGATORY to wear it. If I feel what's best for my daughter is going to Harvard, but she disagrees and thinks she should go to Yale, I would still think she should go to Harvard but can't force her to. Do you really have trouble understanding this?
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:41 PM #63
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This conversation is very interesting to me and very not worth having with someone like you.

Hope this account lasts longer than your last one.
You've become far too keen on copping out. Maybe if you actually studied this sort of thing you wouldn't cite ancient greece as an example lol, but lo and behold you'd rather claim to be interested and not discuss it then discuss it with someone whose personality grinds you the wrong way. You can trust me on this Umami, you aren't the best person to talk to either. But some of us can work through those struggles.

Me too. Getting banned for racism because I'm descriptive of my fellow jews (you read that fellow right) is quite annoying, especially when mods can't tell me which post it was.

I'll post more about the topic after din din

edit: *eats dinner waiting for umami to reply to the person who said hes stupid
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