Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2012, 12:26 PM #1
MiNdLocK
 
 
MiNdLocK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Gun won't shoot at an lpr pressure of less than 100 psi??

Just bought a quest and I am having some tuning issues with it. For some reason, the gun won't fire unless the lpr is set above 100 psi. It has the WAS board and all settings are at the factory defaults. I could raise the dwell time, but having to do that in order to make it shoot seems abnormal to me, especially since the gun should fully operate with the default dwell and lpr pressure at 80 (at least according to the manual).

Another thing I've noticed that bothers me is that you can feel bursts of air coming out the trigger frame when you fire the gun; when I took it apart and shot it, I noticed that the air was coming from the back of the solenoid (towards the bolt) where the noid gasket seals against the body. It does not leak when the gun is idle, just when the noid cycles. There's definitely nothing wrong with the noid, since I just bought it to replace the leaking one that was in the gun originally. The LPR is reading normally (not spiking), and I made sure to check/replace all the bolt and bolt pin orings so that there were no leaks. Could it be a bad valve core in the lpr/hpr, or is this a normal phenomena for all quests?

Thanks in advance

Last edited by MiNdLocK : 06-19-2012 at 12:32 PM.
MiNdLocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 06-19-2012, 06:59 PM #2
Demo2222
.
 
Demo2222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: socal
Annual Supporting Member
hey I know you. Never heard back from you, figured you got it squared away.

The noid, by design, does vent out the back hole by the body every time it cycles. Is it loud? I know you have overly-sensitive hearing. hehe
just messin but, seriously it should vent but I don't know about a burst of air you can feel. It didn't do that with the other noid did it?

the noid has 4 chambers : >{}{}{}{}<
the ones on either end are vents
As far as cycling below 100, the rings prob just need to be broken in. Or it could be overlubed? I suspect it is the new(?) rings.
Are you using that monkey poo? when you say it'll only cycle over 100 do you mean like it'll cycle at 102-110? Or like o-125-130?

gotta break it in before you start really tuning typically.
__________________
DM11
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...7&goto=newpost
CLOSER
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4468049&goto=newpost

Last edited by Demo2222 : 06-19-2012 at 07:06 PM.
Demo2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 07:28 PM #3
Demo2222
.
 
Demo2222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: socal
Annual Supporting Member
Quote:
HP & LP Regulators
The Quest is equipped with a high pressure (HPR) and a low pressure (LPR) regulator.
The HPR can be found on the marker as the vertical grip just in front of the trigger guard.
The HPR is used to adjust the velocity of the paintball exiting the marker and is set between
210-240 psi. The LPR can be found just under the area where the barrel inserts
into the marker in a horizontal position. The LPR is set to cycle the bolt inside the marker
and is set between 80-100 psi.
at 100 or a little over is not bad or unheard of with new rings, shoot a few cases and the try again.
those little guages arent 100% accurate either so it may be at 100 and reading 105.
__________________
DM11
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...7&goto=newpost
CLOSER
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4468049&goto=newpost

Last edited by Demo2222 : 06-19-2012 at 08:52 PM.
Demo2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 12:28 AM #4
MiNdLocK
 
 
MiNdLocK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
hpr issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demo2222 View Post
hey I know you. Never heard back from you, figured you got it squared away.
What's up?

The noid, by design, does vent out the back hole by the body every time it cycles. Is it loud? I know you have overly-sensitive hearing. hehe
just messin but, seriously it should vent but I don't know about a burst of air you can feel. It didn't do that with the other noid did it?

the noid has 4 chambers : >{}{}{}{}<
the ones on either end are vents
As far as cycling below 100, the rings prob just need to be broken in. Or it could be overlubed? I suspect it is the new(?) rings.
Are you using that monkey poo? when you say it'll only cycle over 100 do you mean like it'll cycle at 102-110? Or like o-125-130?

gotta break it in before you start really tuning typically.

Hey man, what's going on? Unfortunately I'm still fooling around with the gun, but I'm probably gonna take it out this weekend anyway...

I took a closer look at the noid, and I'm pretty sure you're correct. It looks like the noid has five chambers however, I'm guessing one is N/O and one is N/C, but the other three I'm not sure about. Like you said, it looks like this:

[{}{}{}{}{}] (back of gun)
#1#2#3#4#5

Chambers #3 and #4 are the N/O and N/C valves; based on the internal body milling, I'm assuming that #1 and #5 are the "vent" chambers since they are left exposed (not sealed), but chamber #2 I'm not sure about.

I can definitely feel the air vent out the grip frame when I shoot, which I never noticed with the old noid, but it could just be a result of having a brand new noid. Maybe it's just has more kick than the old one. The gun is lubed properly; I use dow33 since I can't stand the smell of that monkey poo The orings on the bolt/pin are all new however like you mentioned, so they might need to be broken in.

I was able to get it to shoot at around 80 psi today though, simply by adjusting the hpr pressure. I noticed that by increasing the hpr pressure, the lpr pressure would drop off at some point and the gun would actually stop firing. By backing out the hpr, I was able to get the gun to cycle. It went something like this: back the hpr out too far (set screw flush with regulator housing) and you get no pressure, so the lpr reads zero and the gun won't cycle. Start turning up the hpr (a quarter turn) and the lpr pressure jumps up to the proper reading (85 psi) almost immediately. Continuing to increase the hpr (1-2 full turns) will start increasing the pressure on the lpr, until at some point (about 3 turns from flush) the pressure on the lpr starts dropping and then totally cuts out at which point the gun will do nothing. Continuing to increase the hpr beyond this point (3-3.5 turns from flush) does nothing, and the lpr appears to be unresponsive.

Does this sound like a valve core issue, or maybe just that the hpr needs a rebuild? Like I said, I was actually able to get the gun to shoot at the default dwell of 8 and lpr output of 80 psi just by fiddling with the hpr. Any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks

Last edited by MiNdLocK : 06-20-2012 at 12:36 AM.
MiNdLocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 07:53 AM #5
Demo2222
.
 
Demo2222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: socal
Annual Supporting Member
yea sorry five chambers ... but the ends are vents

are you shooting over a chrono when you say the hp is unresponsive past 3 turns? or does it just not show any effect on the gauge?
Ever hear of sweet spotting a reg?

you want the hpr output pressure set between 210 and 240?
__________________
DM11
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...7&goto=newpost
CLOSER
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4468049&goto=newpost
Demo2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 10:01 AM #6
MiNdLocK
 
 
MiNdLocK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demo2222 View Post
yea sorry five chambers ... but the ends are vents

are you shooting over a chrono when you say the hp is unresponsive past 3 turns? or does it just not show any effect on the gauge?
Ever hear of sweet spotting a reg?

you want the hpr output pressure set between 210 and 240?
Sorry for the confusion, the LPR is unresponsive after I turn the HPR up past three turns. It doesn't seem to make sense, but increasing the HPR (inline) reg past a certain point causes the lpr pressure to drop (the gauge decreases) and eventually cut out completely (at which point the gun will not cycle). I am aware of how reg "sweet-spotting" works, but I'm pretty sure the lpr pressure shouldn't drop off when I increase the inline pressure past three turns. Not sure if a bad valve core is involved, or the inline just needs a rebuild, but I will try to rebuild it later today after I get home from work.

To answer your question, I was using a chrono and I was able to get the gun to shoot at about 280 +- 10 fps at a dwell of 8 and lpr pressure of 80 psi when I backed off the inline (hpr) pressure a couple of turns. It just seems weird to me that increasing the inline pressure past three turns would cause the lpr pressure to drop out and the gun to stop cycling.
MiNdLocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 12:36 PM #7
Demo2222
.
 
Demo2222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: socal
Annual Supporting Member
A bad valve core typical would have a damaged seal or a weak spring on the valve, both of wich would cause the valve to not regulate the hp causing the hp to rise to the output pressure of yourks reg. When that happens you can't turn down the hp at the hpr. I don't thinkitss the valve. Anyone else with an opinion on this?
__________________
DM11
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...7&goto=newpost
CLOSER
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4468049&goto=newpost
Demo2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 12:38 PM #8
Demo2222
.
 
Demo2222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: socal
Annual Supporting Member
That does seem strange but since it is workin correctly why try to fix it? Do you want to shoot higher than 280~
__________________
DM11
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...7&goto=newpost
CLOSER
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4468049&goto=newpost
Demo2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 03:45 PM #9
MiNdLocK
 
 
MiNdLocK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
I did some casual research on the nation, and it seems like this is normal for most LPRs. As you turn up the inline reg, this increases pressure to the lpr which exerts more force against the lpr valve. You then need to raise the lpr pressure (compress the valve spring further) to compensate for this increase in pressure. Below are some quotes from a related thread about decreasing lpr pressure with increasing inline pressure:

Quote:
On a note about regulators. Your LPRs output pressure is effected by the pressure coming from the inline. and the whakcy part is that it is an inverse reationship. If you turn up you inline, the output pressure from your LPR will drop a bit. Odd yes, but stranger things happen
Quote:
All single-stage, unbalanced regulators work that way. As the input pressure goes up, the output pressure drops, and vice-versa. That's why you're having this problem.

Simply give the LPR a couple extra twists until you find the proper inline pressure, then reset the LPR.
I'm still going to rebuild the lpr and inline reg when I get home tonight though, just for good measure I'll let you know how she's shooting when I take her out to play this weekend
MiNdLocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 07:28 PM #10
Demo2222
.
 
Demo2222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: socal
Annual Supporting Member
that makes sense, I was kinda thinking that in my head but only had a second to think and hadnt fully wrapped my head around it yet.

I always say, if it aint broke dont fix it but it won't hurt.
let her rip!
__________________
DM11
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...7&goto=newpost
CLOSER
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4468049&goto=newpost
Demo2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2012, 04:50 PM #11
MiNdLocK
 
 
MiNdLocK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
got her shooting right :D

Hey,

Thought I'd wrap this up with a few closing comments:

I took the quest out last weekend to play, and I noticed that it was having some issues at the chrono such as FSDO and inconsistent velocity. Luckily there was a guy at the field that had owned quests before, and he was able to help me get my settings dialed in right. I raised the dwell from the stock 8ms up to 12ms, reset the inline pressure (backed the hpr all the way out and brought it up to about 3 turns) and then raised the lpr pressure just a hair to about 90 psi and then she was shooting great all day.

I'm curious as to what board settings/pressure settings are optimal for the FEP Quest. Any opinions from Demo2222 or any other quest owners would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your help Demo

EDIT: P.S. - I also asked the guy at my field if it's normal to feel air coming out of the grip frame when you shoot the quest. He shot it and remarked that it was just a small amount which he said is normal since the noid vents excess air by design.

Last edited by MiNdLocK : 06-26-2012 at 05:00 PM. Reason: p.s....
MiNdLocK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2012, 06:10 PM #12
Demo2222
.
 
Demo2222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: socal
Annual Supporting Member
honestly for the settings its a gun by gun basis.
i keep my lp around 80 once the rings are broken in and allow it. I've had to run my lp at 110 before with a marker and I've seen them run smooth at 65.

I've always kept a high dwell, but no more than 13. these are measurements in milliseconds by the way,

"optimal" is also based on what your preferences are. Smooth and sexy but not so efficient. or smooth but not quite as smooth and more efficient.

think the common belief is that lower lp will yield a smoother shooter but make for more of a gas hog.

I don't think too much about it, as long as she's singing like a sewing machine I'm a happy guy!
__________________
DM11
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...7&goto=newpost
CLOSER
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4468049&goto=newpost
Demo2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump