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Old 05-30-2012, 06:38 PM #43
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I hear ya on the no time. Busy as hell lately.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:26 PM #44
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posting for tomorrow.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:54 PM #45
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:05 PM #46
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First, I would like to point out that because the breech is so small in SP and related markers, there's really no reason people should have stack clipping issues. This is evidenced time and time again in threads for people who use Pooty bolts, they point out they've never really had a problem with stock but got the Pooty bolt anyway.

At any rate, he's correct in one thing - the Pooty bolt keeps the next ball in the stack indexed better while the gun is at rest - by a whopping hundredth and a quarter. That's right, .0126".



Distance: 0.0137"



Distance: 0.0263"

0.0263 - 0.0137 = .0126"

What's worse though is what he's sacrificed for this - keeping the next ball in the stack at a relatively consistent height. You can see in the next two pictures that the Pooty bolt allows the next ball in the stack to fall behind the ball in the breech - creating clipping on the bolt itself. The detents should be keeping the ball on the bolt face at this point, so the balls should be in the correct position.



Distance: 0.0417"

The eigen (and other open-faced bolts) will have no such problems:



Distance: 0.0258"

That means it's actually worse at keeping the next ball indexed during the firing cycle by .0417 - .0258 = .0159".

This actually falls right in line with the video on the previous page - where there was clearly ball breakage with the Pooty core and no such issue with the NOX bolt.

Pooty, the next time you want to pretend your products provide a performance gain, you should either make sure you're not selling bull**** hype or at least that I'm not posting in the thread. I will freely admit the eigen is not perfect, there are actually a few parts of the design that are not ideal. Feel free to critique it on those. But don't make up fake criticism. It makes you look bad, and since this is the Shocker forum most of us are experienced enough to know the difference.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:12 PM #47
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/argument
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:21 PM #48
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:36 PM #49
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Originally Posted by Umami View Post
First, I would like to point out that because the breech is so small in SP and related markers, there's really no reason people should have stack clipping issues. This is evidenced time and time again in threads for people who use Pooty bolts, they point out they've never really had a problem with stock but got the Pooty bolt anyway.

At any rate, he's correct in one thing - the Pooty bolt keeps the next ball in the stack indexed better while the gun is at rest - by a whopping hundredth and a quarter. That's right, .0126".

[IG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n307/goofball86/PootyBallIndexing.jpg[/IMG]

Distance: 0.0137"

[IMG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n307/goofball86/EigenBallIndexing.jpg[/IG]

Distance: 0.0263"

0.0263 - 0.0137 = .0126"

What's worse though is what he's sacrificed for this - keeping the next ball in the stack at a relatively consistent height. You can see in the next two pictures that the Pooty bolt allows the next ball in the stack to fall behind the ball in the breech - creating clipping on the bolt itself. The detents should be keeping the ball on the bolt face at this point, so the balls should be in the correct position.

[IM]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n307/goofball86/PootyBallIndexing2-1.jpg[/IMG]

Distance: 0.0417"

The eigen (and other open-faced bolts) will have no such problems:

[IG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n307/goofball86/EigenBallIndexing2.jpg[/IMG]

Distance: 0.0258"

That means it's actually worse at keeping the next ball indexed during the firing cycle by .0417 - .0258 = .0159".

This actually falls right in line with the video on the previous page - where there was clearly ball breakage with the Pooty core and no such issue with the NOX bolt.

Pooty, the next time you want to pretend your products provide a performance gain, you should either make sure you're not selling bull**** hype or at least that I'm not posting in the thread. I will freely admit the eigen is not perfect, there are actually a few parts of the design that are not ideal. Feel free to critique it on those. But don't make up fake criticism. It makes you look bad, and since this is the Shocker forum most of us are experienced enough to know the difference.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:14 PM #50
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umami did you do the speed bolt as well?
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:24 PM #51
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He didnt.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:30 PM #52
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woulda been interesting to see
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:35 PM #53
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I asked him if he wanted those dimensions to but he just wanted to pooty bolt dimensions so thats what I gave him.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:46 PM #54
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i dont think the speed bolt dimensions were necessary for the point he was trying to get across/made...just woulda been cool to see
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:51 PM #55
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The depth on the cup face of the speed bolt is shallower than other ndz and SP bolts so he would've need to know that dimension to get it accurate.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:53 PM #56
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I honestly have never seen a speed bolt. I could sketch one up pretty quick if Jim PM'd me the necessary specs beyond stock.

Edit: Oh, the NDZ bolt. Yeah, I could do it, although I doubt the results will be much different from the eigen.

Edit2: Wait, that face is definitely not as curved as I thought it was. Might be interesting.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:58 PM #57
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right. if he did the cup face also with the flat face and open

edit: its not a big deal i just thought if you were already doing it.

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Old 05-30-2012, 11:00 PM #58
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Let me figure a way to accurately measure the depth and I'll get back to you on that.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:31 AM #59
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I will freely admit the eigen is not perfect, there are actually a few parts of the design that are not ideal.
I vote you make a bolt. I'd buy it.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:38 AM #60
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Umami has bigger fish to fry (and ostensibly season with MSG)

Got some good news from "the gimp" today, apparently his tech showed up and the swiss machine is being fixed
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:40 AM #61
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That's hot. So ****ing hot.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:58 AM #62
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Umami has bigger fish to fry (and ostensibly season with MSG)
Fish fry at Umami's place? Count me in. I'll assume it's tomorrow.

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Got some good news from "the gimp" today, apparently his tech showed up and the swiss machine is being fixed
So that means the bolts are still being done by the original swiss machine guy?


Also To Umami's post with the actual science behind Pooty's gimmicks (when I say Pooty's I mean somebody's idea which Pooty borrowed and slapped his name on).
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:38 AM #63
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I vote you make a bolt. I'd buy it.
Haha thanks man. To be honest they're really constraints in the Shocker platform, I don't really know how I'd get around them and I don't think they'll make the Eigen any less impressive. Every design for anything ever made has its drawbacks.

Quote:
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Umami has bigger fish to fry (and ostensibly season with MSG)
For the bigger fish and for the MSG.

Quote:
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Fish fry at Umami's place? Count me in. I'll assume it's tomorrow.

So that means the bolts are still being done by the original swiss machine guy?

Also To Umami's post with the actual science behind Pooty's gimmicks (when I say Pooty's I mean somebody's idea which Pooty borrowed and slapped his name on).
Well I don't think he's claiming the flat face as his, but yeah. His business model seems to be catch every current fad and throw them together into one product, without paying attention to whether or not they actually help.

Thanks
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Last edited by Umami : 05-31-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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