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Old 05-25-2012, 09:08 AM #43
Zerolatency
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
The third faction was NOT disbanded because of any one side. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it is incorrect. It was primarily due to too many inexperienced scenario players not understanding why some players got to insert in the middle and they couldn't. That is it. Plain and simple. The third faction dropped both bases and ran missions for both sides on Saturday.

Additionally half of them were put on the red team and half on blue to keep the disbanding fair.
I entirely agree that there were alot of inexperienced scenario players, living legends is good for that, i started scenario with Living Legends 2 and was a complete noob to scenario at that point - i think most totally understand this decision and the disbanding couldn't have been done any more fairly.

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Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
A lot of the HK video is being used by Team Defiant and Impact A Hero in their fundraising efforts at their annual charity banquet next weekend to help make it possible for more disabled vets get into more games and bring some joy to their lives. Not sure what else needs to be said there...but I can't imagine where people could put this weekend before US soldiers who were wounded in battle and who will never run in the woods again.
I think its unfair to infer that any of us would put this weekend before US soldiers. I know i wouldn't. I think the frustration lies in the fact that this was done during game time when it didn't have to. Wasn't there time friday to do this, or saturday before the game started, or afterwards on sunday?
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:18 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerolatency View Post
Wasn't there time friday to do this, or saturday before the game started, or afterwards on sunday?
You are probably right. However the hope was that they could get some really awesome in-game footage that would truly give those who saw it a "feel" for what the vets were experiencing during the game without it feeling any more "staged" than it had to. The idea was that the sound of battles all around them would help with this instead of dead silence with two or three markers popping off rounds. Hopefully the end result will have just that, and help those who are making it possible.

Every event has problems. You can't do this much with this many players and not have problems. It's my opinion that one of the things that makes Living Legends stand out is that we always strive to learn from these problems, and we always strive to use these lessons to improve each year.
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Last edited by ViperScenarios : 05-25-2012 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:24 AM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno v View Post
To those of you who think that winning or loosing doesn't matter let me ask you how many games have you commanded? Commanders and there staff do a lot of hard work to command a game like this. If you don't believe me than ask any producer or field how easy it is to get commanders for an event like this. It is getting harder and harder.
I myself play for the fun of it but a game such as this is very personal to the command staff and players that bust there *** for two days not to mention the five months of promoting, recruiting ( lets see how much fun you have if nobody shows up ) making banners ( two of which were robbed from our tent on Friday night ) to get into the spirit of the game and driving 1600 miles. Now lets talk money this game cost me over $1000.00 to attend and four vacation days.
100% Agree with you, we all do our best to put winning and losing last and just have a good time. But when you put months and I mean MONTHS of planning to the smallest detail... Something like this just...Feels wrong.


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Originally Posted by postman1 View Post
This game was not rigged....lets just say some "in-game changes" were made because of the scoring error that screwed everything up. Again...the scoring error was a mistake but it totally changed the outcome because of those changes that was not in the storyline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petedaddy View Post
This...



Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
The third faction was NOT disbanded because of any one side. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it is incorrect. It was primarily due to too many inexperienced scenario players not understanding why some players got to insert in the middle and they couldn't. That is it. Plain and simple. The third faction dropped both bases and ran missions for both sides on Saturday.

Additionally half of them were put on the red team and half on blue to keep the disbanding fair.

A lot of the HK video is being used by Team Defiant and Impact A Hero in their fundraising efforts at their annual charity banquet next weekend to help make it possible for more disabled vets get into more games and bring some joy to their lives. Not sure what else needs to be said there...but I can't imagine where people could put this weekend before US soldiers who were wounded in battle and who will never run in the woods again.

I can understand that there were many inexpieranced players who didn't understand the 3rd entity but that is something that you guys have to fix if you are going to include them. Don't get me wrong, we run into the same issue with the French at ION, but we have been slowly fixing it. It's certainly not something you can fix over the course of a few days, but rather years. have 3rd enttiy orientation over the course of both days, multiple times.

Secondly getting rid of a 3rd party has a MASSIVE impact on the game, and whether it was for one reason or not: changing parts of the game in the middle of it is a big no no.

Lastly, of course we all want to helpout when it comes to our men and women wearing the uniform of our country. Common now do you even have to even ask that? But when its on the field that the game is being PLAYED ON... That upset a lot of players on both sides who felt as if they were 2nd best. We're all equal here, I gladly would have ended the game 30 minutes early so they could play, plus I would have come watch/donate money. But one persons right shouldn't trample someone else's... Am I right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
Every event has problems. You can't do this much with this many players and not have problems. It's my opinion that one of the things that makes Living Legends stand out is that we always strive to learn from these problems, and we always strive to use these lessons to improve each year.
And that is the best thing you can do. Tweek things, learn from your mistakes, and make them better. Can't disagree with you there.
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Last edited by Grazi : 05-25-2012 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:38 AM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
You are probably right. However the hope was that they could get some really awesome in-game footage that would truly give those who saw it a "feel" for what the vets were experiencing during the game without it feeling any more "staged" than it had to. The idea was that the sound of battles all around them would help with this instead of dead silence with two or three markers popping off rounds. Hopefully the end result will have just that, and help those who are making it possible.

Every event has problems. You can't do this much with this many players and not have problems. It's my opinion that one of the things that makes Living Legends stand out is that we always strive to learn from these problems, and we always strive to use these lessons to improve each year.
I'm sure if anybody asked, they could of had a few hundred volunteers who would of helped do this video. Instead of being force fed something...
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:46 AM #47
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I had no problem with the HK filming but the fact that some players were told to clear the area for this....missions were trying to be done. If they wanted a "real feel" they should have filmed during actual game play instead of being "staged".

We have no problem with you viper. Hands down you probably throw the best games....but this wasn't just a game. It was living legends and we wanted the WIN even more because our captain was the genral. As a team, we've supported you and have been to 4 of the 5 living legends game. We've been on the losing end with no problem....but this one was personal for us. it was not able to play out without any intererence and we just wanted to you to acknowledge what happened. The scoring error was fine. It was the snowball effect and changes that ruined the game.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:18 AM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerolatency View Post
I think its unfair to infer that any of us would put this weekend before US soldiers. I know i wouldn't.
To be clear, I wasn't saying that people were doing this intentionally. I was putting it out there because many people simply didn't know. There is a banquet next weekend where people write checks for thousands, and even tens of thousands of dollars to help Impact A Hero. George Bush attended last year, as do professional sports player and such.

However it was a mistake in execution that won't happen again regardless of the situation. I promise.

Now, that being said...anyone that has been coming to LL since the early ones can tell you that we always learn and we always improve. So far no one has really pointed out anything lessons I didn't already walk away from this event knowing needed to be factored into next year, as well as my other events. I've done this professionally for sixteen years. I wouldn't have made it this long if I didn't realize my mistakes and learn from them, and always strive to improve.

But at this point this horse has been beaten into a gelatinous mass.

Everyone's concerns here are valid, they have been noted, and they will be factored into future decisions. But unless anyone has some new insight that hasn't been addressed I believe it's time to look forward to future events instead of just repeating the same issues that have already been pointed out numerous times. Repeating the same thing twenty times does not give it any more validity. The points are already as valid as they are going to get.

If you feel I am dismissing the complaints and suggestions...I'm not. I just want to be able to go back through these threads and extrapolate what is needed to improve the event. This is far more effective and efficient I don't have to sift through twenty people parroting the same point. Too much clutter means I may miss something important as I sift through page after page of repetition. Quoting someone else and adding "This" is not productive or helpful. It just makes for a longer and more cluttered thread. If you have some new insight post it. If you have a reasonable new suggestion on how to remedy the problem I'm all ears. But "Yeah I'm unhappy too" just isn't really that much help.

YOU help me improve my events by email me or posting complaints and suggestions. But if you really want to help make sure there aren't fifty posts about the same complaint and the same suggestion.

One year, after an event, someone actually (totally on their own) decided to go through three post-event threads on a forum and pull out the complaints, and the suggestions on remedying them, and put them all into one outline. Then they emailed it to me. OMG was that awesome...and SO incredibly helpful! The unbelievable thing was that out of three threads, one with over six pages of comments, it all came down to about five major issues and, of those, three of the issues had about three suggested fixes each. It all fit on a one-page MS Word document and printed on one side of a sheet of paper.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:32 AM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperScenarios View Post
You are probably right. However the hope was that they could get some really awesome in-game footage that would truly give those who saw it a "feel" for what the vets were experiencing during the game without it feeling any more "staged" than it had to. The idea was that the sound of battles all around them would help with this instead of dead silence with two or three markers popping off rounds. Hopefully the end result will have just that, and help those who are making it possible.

Every event has problems. You can't do this much with this many players and not have problems. It's my opinion that one of the things that makes Living Legends stand out is that we always strive to learn from these problems, and we always strive to use these lessons to improve each year.
Anything i say is simply constructive criticism - If HK (or anyone) needs to film something again, making the players aware of it before hand would go a long way as well.

Problems happen, someone is going to be disappointed with some decision no matter what it is, you can't please everyone.

Your events are what have brought me into scenario. I look forward Legends weekend as on of my favorites every year. Usually legends is it for me but this year i'll see you at blast camp in the fall.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:57 PM #50
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As Cpt. of Team Defiant I would like to first off say that I am Very Sorry if myself/tracked wheelchairs/filming Ect… interfered with any players good time!!! The truth is that the idea of all of this is new and only 6 months from its creation, we are still Learning how best to utilize the tracked wheelchairs in play ect…

We would have loved to film it on Friday however my veterans were not available to do so at that time. And with everyone that had to come together to make the video it was hard just to coordinate to make it happen at all….For this once again I am SORRY for any inconvenience this may have caused!!!

I want everyone to know that we do care about each and every one of yalls comments and??? About the tracked wheelchairs!!! Please feel free to email me on any other issues that yall had with all of this!!!

I want to also say THANKS to all of you who played this great event!!! And would also like yall to know that my Veterans had a blast playing with each and every one of you!!! One of which was his first time ever even playing paintball, and he can’t wait to play more!!! He hasn’t been able to do anything like this in about 7 years and now he can go out and play paintball with his son who hasn’t got to play anything outside with his dad sense before he was wounded!!!

I am still learning how to make this all work and its starting to grow faster than I can manage. So I ask you all for you forgiveness, patience and understanding in all this, please…

Thanks for your Understanding!!!

Sincerely,

Spencer Tesanovich
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:35 PM #51
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You all make very good points about the filming during real gameplay. First and most important it WILL NOT happen again. I also was helping with the vets and we really were trying to get the best experence out of it for them without messing up other players time. We tried to film for FPS Russia and HK Army on Thursday and Friday. Do to some of the vets health we couldn't due to the very hot temps. We had planned on filming inbetween the day play and dinner battle. It didnt work out. We all are sorry that gameplay was effected. Hope people can understand we had best intentions but ended up with somewhat poor results. Sometimes the best plans fall short and you learn. We will not try to film anything again during active gameplay.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:37 AM #52
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Props to you for apologizing.
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