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Old 05-22-2012, 12:37 PM #22
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I will with out a doubt be playing more events like this.
there is no other events like Living Legends
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:58 PM #23
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Seems like there are pieces missing from the story...One mistake led to a "butterfly effect"...
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:02 PM #24
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If you use Excel you'll get it. But there are no "missing pieces"
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:12 PM #25
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Why were the Rippers taken out of play on Sunday?

Blue got no points on Sunday?

How many arm bands are Generals supposed to have on?

HK video during game play? Serious? Clearing out an entire field of players during the actual game to film a video?!?!?

Last edited by petedaddy : 05-22-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:13 PM #26
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When I heard that scoring runs on Excel, that's what I thought, too. Kind of "yeah, I could see that happening". It's an honest mistake, a more than honest and honorable forthcoming about it, and an honest correction to the final tally.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:27 PM #27
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Why were the Rippers taken out of play on Sunday?
Players less experienced with scenario play had a hard time with players who could insert anywhere when they couldn't. The Rippers gave both sides hell on Saturday, and helped both sides. While many reds feel that the Rippers targeted only them I know for a fact that the Rippers also rolled the blue base, and that Rippers actually ran missions and scored points for the red side.

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Blue got no points on Sunday?
They actually ended up with 10 if you read the first post in this thread.

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How many arm bands are Generals supposed to have on?
They are required to wear one on their left arm. We ask them to wear one on each arm so their players know who there commander is, but this is not anywhere in the rules. It's simply a request.

Anything else?
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:33 PM #28
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I didnt play, but somehow I dont see the points mattering all the much in the end as long as everyone had a good time.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:00 PM #29
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:07 PM #30
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Class act as always

Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone admits to them. You could have carried on as if nothing happened and no one would have been any wiser. You instead chose to follow through with the principals of integrity and trust in which you founded Viper paintball 16 years ago, and for that you have earned all of our respect.

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Thank you viper, it was still the best event I've ever been to and I'm glad my team actually pulled it out!
I didn't know you were on PBN, Kevin. Hell I've been a subscriber for a couple of years now...what ever happened to Bli11? Haha
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:43 PM #31
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Yes mistakes happen....... but when those mistakes have an influence on the dynamics of the game, its an issue. Was it intentional, by no means but none the less it had an impact. Viper, email inbound.

Once again congrats to the Horde.

Thank you New Empire players for your hard and fair play on both Saturday and SUNDAY! That was some of the most fierce paintball battling I have ever witnessed under those odds!

I will follow up with an official wrap up after a bit of rest.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:44 PM #32
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I must say that this is the most stand up thing that I have ever seen a game producer do, admit a mistake.

As far as rigging a game to keep scores even, it makes you wonder if the scores could be rigged to let one side win?

Several year ago some of us got feed up with a regional producer rigging scores to keep a game even so we came up with a plan to screw his game plan.
We decided to say screw the missions and control 75% of the field. When you control 75% of the field you can run a mission with a collie dog, because the battle is at the other end of the field.

The game producer, Ben Torcellia of MPPGames, totally lost it with me for what I did and banned me from all of his games and attempted to slander my name. When games are rigged all player lose.

Viper we need your level of games down here in the southeast.

These views and opinions are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of the rest of my team.

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Old 05-23-2012, 06:57 PM #33
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To those of you who think that winning or loosing doesn't matter let me ask you how many games have you commanded? Commanders and there staff do a lot of hard work to command a game like this. If you don't believe me than ask any producer or field how easy it is to get commanders for an event like this. It is getting harder and harder.
I myself play for the fun of it but a game such as this is very personal to the command staff and players that bust there *** for two days not to mention the five months of promoting, recruiting ( lets see how much fun you have if nobody shows up ) making banners ( two of which were robbed from our tent on Friday night ) to get into the spirit of the game and driving 1600 miles. Now lets talk money this game cost me over $1000.00 to attend and four vacation days.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:07 PM #34
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I was just glad the game seemed to move around the field. I don't care win or lose.

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Old 05-24-2012, 12:50 AM #35
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Seems like there are pieces missing from the story...One mistake led to a "butterfly effect"...
if you want to go to games were producers rig games go to skirmish. But Viper is nothing like that i have played many of his games and won some and lost some and have never had a problem with the outcomes. And let this run around inside your head why would he rig a game then come out and tell everyone how he messed up lol come one now even your own general pretty lou knows its not like that.
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:34 AM #36
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This game was not rigged....lets just say some "in-game changes" were made because of the scoring error that screwed everything up. Again...the scoring error was a mistake but it totally changed the outcome because of those changes that was not in the storyline.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:29 AM #37
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This game was not rigged....lets just say some "in-game changes" were made because of the scoring error that screwed everything up. Again...the scoring error was a mistake but it totally changed the outcome because of those changes that was not in the storyline.
This...
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:00 AM #38
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All I know is I had a blast, and I will definitely be there at LL6!

I like how this scenario didn'tturn into a giant slug out in the middle, it was ebbing and flowing all around the fields, and I got to see all the parts of it, from Bedlam and Armageddon, to sneaking around in Merida trying to avoid being spotted by New Empire Base Sentries..
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:05 PM #39
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This game was not rigged....lets just say some "in-game changes" were made because of the scoring error that screwed everything up. Again...the scoring error was a mistake but it totally changed the outcome because of those changes that was not in the storyline.
How did the scoring error make changes in game?
was it because you guys thought you were crushing us in points? I didn't even check the scores on Sunday, so as far as I know, the points came out after the game was over. Can you even check what the score is during game?
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:25 PM #40
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How did the scoring error make changes in game?
was it because you guys thought you were crushing us in points? I didn't even check the scores on Sunday, so as far as I know, the points came out after the game was over. Can you even check what the score is during game?
I'm just going to put it out there and not talk about it anymore.

New empire side won Saturdays game play....so when sunday comes...we were told the 3rd entity will be taken away from the game to even out the sides for sunday play because some hordes were complaining. The next thing that happened was we were told that we are still winning the game, (I believe this is when the scoring error took place) so the nppl players were put on the hordes side to try and even the game. Then the whole HK filming was another thing and a few other things as well. So with that being said, we were told a few times throughout the weekend what the score was.

Our beef is not that we lost. In fact we feel bad because the hordes did not get the chance to celebrate or even get the chance to walk on the stage as winners. We just did not like the fact that viper ONLY acknowledged that there was a scoring error and did not mention everything else that happened.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:51 PM #41
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Ok, that makes more sense.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:32 AM #42
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The third faction was NOT disbanded because of any one side. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it is incorrect. It was primarily due to too many inexperienced scenario players not understanding why some players got to insert in the middle and they couldn't. That is it. Plain and simple. The third faction dropped both bases and ran missions for both sides on Saturday.

Additionally half of them were put on the red team and half on blue to keep the disbanding fair.

A lot of the HK video is being used by Team Defiant and Impact A Hero in their fundraising efforts at their annual charity banquet next weekend to help make it possible for more disabled vets get into more games and bring some joy to their lives. Not sure what else needs to be said there...but I can't imagine where people could put this weekend before US soldiers who were wounded in battle and who will never run in the woods again.

With regard to the scoring error when I found it I immediately called Sean Scott, and then PrettyLou, then Sniperwolf. I then set about going back through and dissecting the spreadsheet, composing an apology, and then responding...all in my van during the 14 hour ride back to Texas.

There was a major snowball effect that unfolded that all comes back to my mistake. I was still finding out just how many problems my mistake had caused after I posted my apology. It's not my intention to ignore the New Empire's accomplishments, and I am sorry you feel like I did. The simple truth is I simply hadn't had time to fully discuss all of the ramifications when I composed my apology as my primary concern was taking responsibility for my mistake as quickly as possible. I didn't want to screw around for two days talking to everyone and gathering information while the mistake was glaring in my face. I didn't want anyone to think I was trying to hide it.

It's still my fault, it still disappointing a lot of players who trusted me to run a quality event, and I still feel terrible. But turning this discussion in the direction of "Yeah, but they only won because..." does no one any good for anyone. I've figured out my mistake, apologized, and know how to make sure it doesn't happen in the future. I'm not sure what else can be accomplished by speculating the "what ifs" as the fact is we will simply never know what the real outcome would have been due to my screw up.

The bottom line remains the same: I screwed up, I disappointed a lot of players and friends, and I feel like hell for it.

So to Postman, the Reservoir Dogs, and the rest of the blue team; I'm sorry I did not properly recognize your accomplishments. That was not my intention. I was simply focused on taking responsibility for my mistake and letting people know what had caused it.
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