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Old 05-13-2012, 06:15 PM #22
GoatBoy
 
 
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I ran a test with a Classic today, because my previous numbers came out funny.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rOVd1WEVwT VE

Averaged 280 FPS (the paint I believe was 3 years old so barrel match was not so good).

.24g air consumed per shot. I was a little surprised by this number, but I also checked the remaining pressure on the tank, and it was around 1100-1200PSI after 100 shots.

This would come out to a little over 1500 shots off a 68/45.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:03 AM #23
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Another data point that I thought I'd go back an look at (because data points are few and far between for reasons I've already stated): about 3 years ago the Punkworks guys did a dry fire vs. paint test and recorded the results.

Their version was to see how many shots they could get between dropping a 13ci tank from 2000PSI to 1000PSI.

Included in their data was an Emag with Level 10. They got 72 shots.

I did the math, and this works out to about .26g of air consumed per shot.


https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...sMmpEgg52Xdwbg
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:36 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post
Another data point that I thought I'd go back an look at (because data points are few and far between for reasons I've already stated): about 3 years ago the Punkworks guys did a dry fire vs. paint test and recorded the results.

Their version was to see how many shots they could get between dropping a 13ci tank from 2000PSI to 1000PSI.

Included in their data was an Emag with Level 10. They got 72 shots.

I did the math, and this works out to about .26g of air consumed per shot.


https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...sMmpEgg52Xdwbg
I trust exactly half of what PunkWorks does - and that would be the half Bryce does.

Cockerpunks partsbox Emag has the most poorly tuned valve out there - he doesn't know what he's doing. He shows up on AO and makes an *** of himself by complaining about the weight and "flawed" functionality of his (so, of course, all AGD) marker(s), when the former is solved by creative milling or the purchase of newer aftermarket parts, and the latter by the simple LVL10 tuning and a good understanding of both the technical and practical aspects of automag functionality and maintenance.

I'll probably pursue similar testing once I get myself comfortable with this setup. Still needs tweaking.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:39 AM #25
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ROFL Firzz...2 to you sir.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:24 AM #26
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ROFL Firzz...2 to you sir.
Make that 3 to you sir.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:46 PM #27
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Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry View Post
I trust exactly half of what PunkWorks does - and that would be the half Bryce does.

Cockerpunks partsbox Emag has the most poorly tuned valve out there - he doesn't know what he's doing. He shows up on AO and makes an *** of himself by complaining about the weight and "flawed" functionality of his (so, of course, all AGD) marker(s), when the former is solved by creative milling or the purchase of newer aftermarket parts, and the latter by the simple LVL10 tuning and a good understanding of both the technical and practical aspects of automag functionality and maintenance.

I'll probably pursue similar testing once I get myself comfortable with this setup. Still needs tweaking.
I think we should make this less about the personalities, and more about the data, science, and procedure. Also, it looks like Bryce was involved in this one if you watch the video.

Like I said, good data is *very* hard to find on this. Nobody does proper testing.

If all his equipment and handling is faulty, then the results should reflect that. His errant results will just be a tiny blip in a sea of results...

Ö if we had more results to compare against. Which we donít. Because their test(s) is(/are) constructed so that practically nobody is willing or able to perform it. Thatís really my biggest beef with those guys -- their inability to construct testing with the intention of it being reproduced and validated by others.

So right now, I have only my own results to compare against, and they seem to be in the same ballpark, despite being completely independently performed.


We simply need more independent testing.



Another curiosity to note:

http://www.pbgen.com/efficiencyguide.html

I donít know who these guys are, but looking over their numbers (which sadly do not include an Automag), it does look like they went to some pains to get roughly accurate numbers. Assuming that, I think that the old rule of thumb of 10 shots per ci for 3k, and 15 shots per ci for 4500, is based on old blowback style efficiency, which is understandable, but on the conservative side.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:43 AM #28
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GoatBoy - I totally agree. I just don't post what I find/do for the most part because I'm not as much looking for hard numbers, and in the rare chance that I do test things more professionally I find I tend to open up flame wars with just one post (and that post is just a picture of the setup and a spreadsheet).

I'll try to put issues with CPs personality aside. That was more meant to be a statement about the issues he describes having with his Emag which all point to it being poorly tuned/assembled which would not make it a great test marker, or at least not an accurate representation of the average X-valve'ed gun. Any parts-box marker needs extra attention to setup and tuning (and it's not always by the book). Sorry if my "love" bled through a little.

Ideally we'd see if we can order 5 or so identical RT Pros set up from AGD and go from there. Not my goal now - just trying to see how efficient I can make this one mag with bolt on upgrades and tuning, and see what other people are getting with more traditional setups.

If I wanted to make it stupid efficient I'd buy devolumizer. Which I still might.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:39 AM #29
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Well, not scientific , but I used about 3k shooting a full halo hopper and 4 pods.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:01 AM #30
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Well, not scientific , but I used about 3k shooting a full halo hopper and 4 pods.
So about 760 shots burns up 2/3 of your tank (or more like 3/4 considering the bottom doesn't provide as many usable shots)? Sounds like that's about on par with the previous reports; 800-1200 from a 68/45.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:56 AM #31
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So about 760 shots burns up 2/3 of your tank (or more like 3/4 considering the bottom doesn't provide as many usable shots)? Sounds like that's about on par with the previous reports; 800-1200 from a 68/45.
Yes. So it will be interesting to see what I get using the efficiency insert mod this weekend.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:24 AM #32
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You have neither data nor science to back this up. Both qualities missing from all of your posts so far.




I'll cut this short.

"Scientific method." The constant enemy of paintball since its inception, and the reason why threads like this still exist even though the RT has been out for 16 years.


Test procedure edited to include chronograph. It was implicit in the original Step 6 (now step 7), but you know what they say about fool-proofing things.
if you are getting "technical" with the scientific method...and describing it in steps...you clearly use a lot of WIkipedia sources. what was the point of you posting so many times?...besides thread pirating..(not unlike butt-pirating)
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:33 AM #33
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Make that 3 to you sir.


wait...you guys are out of line...."as an engineer" i think cockerpunk understands all... and AGD was wrong...as was aka. I LOVE pbnation. ELE!!


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Old 05-24-2012, 02:26 PM #34
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my current main automag is using an xvalve with ULT, level 10 tuned for the gentlest touch on paint, powered by a ninja tank putting out 800-850. I was chronographed at 291 on my first shot.

last weekend it was mid/upper 60s and not especially humid. On a 68 that was filled to around 4200 psi after cooling off, I got 970-982 usable shots. I used 982, but I did this test in a game situation and I sometimes have quick, sloppy reloads. My last shot after I walked off the field was chronographed at 204 fps.

I had already planned to test how tuning a level 10 kit for efficiency vs. gentleness on paint can affect efficiency, so I'll just post the numbers here as I get them. My testing is all done in game situation and not at all scientific with plenty of room for error, but ballpark numbers are better than no numbers (which i think was biscuit's point).

I like goatboy's testing method, unfortunately I do not have the equipment to do that. I do have the equipment necessary to go play paintball and just shoot a whole bunch of paint and record the numbers.
So Ive retuned my automag more for efficiency than ease on paint. Its hitting hard enough I wouldn't feel comfortable putting my tongue in the breech, so I'll be shooting it this weekend and will finally have a ballpark in how much tuning the level 10 effects efficiency.
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