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Old 09-18-2004, 10:50 AM #1
Xnuke
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Ariakon Electronic Trigger Problems

PROBLEMS WITH ARIAKON ELECTRONIC TRIGGERS
We've had 4 Ariakon LED and LCD trigger frames with defects in last month. 3 from a single order. They do not function properly(recocking) and could not be adjusted to work properly. They will not catch the sear when firing and wll fire rapidly unless you hold the charging handle back. We tried 3 frames on 2 separate SIM-4's. They would not work but the markers worked fine with the standard trigger.
Also it appears that the rapid firing causes the connecting pin to bend and has jammed the hammer in 2 SIM4's. One is on it's way back from Ariakon. The other one they have refused to take care of because the owner did not send it back. He returned it to us 3 hours after getting it back from Ariakon - where the recocking problem was supposedly repaired. That's when we found the following conditions:
Gun would not cock.
Hammer o-ring was half gone
No lubrication on hammer
Hammer is jammed in body and cutting grooves into metal( It cannot be removed from the body)
Solenoid coil set screws were loose.

This was after they repaired it. Shipping records indicate he received it at 315 and was on it's way back to us withing 3 hours. Yet they tried to say it was his fault and then tried to say it was something we did.
Our dealer relationship with Ariakon has been terminated over this issue. Our ability to post on the Ariakon forum has been removed also.
Recommendation would be not to buy the Ariakon Electronic Trigger frames. The other problem is the LCD frame does not have a tournament lock if that matters to anyone.
This is not an isolated case as there have been several others on the Ariakon forum posting about similar experiences.

Look at our site for clearance sales on our remaining Ariakon products. (Sorry, no electronic trigger frames)
www.shorepaintballsupplies.com
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Old 09-18-2004, 04:49 PM #2
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Re: Ariakon Electronic Trigger Problems

Quote:
Originally posted by Xnuke
Our dealer relationship with Ariakon has been terminated over this issue. Our ability to post on the Ariakon forum has been removed also.
Recommendation would be not to buy the Ariakon Electronic Trigger frames. The other problem is the LCD frame does not have a tournament lock if that matters to anyone.
Actually the reason your "dealer relationship" with Ariakon has been terminated was the same reason your relationship with Armotech ended. They drop kicked your arse out.

You have zero skill as a salesman, but that's not suprising considering you operate a crappy little Yahoo store. I've yet to see you get along with a single person online. All you do is yell, complain, and *****. Perhaps you missed this lesson somewhere in salesman school, but the customer is always supposed to be right, whether they are or not. You can't get into heated arguments with your customers and expect them to buy from you.

Your arguments are particularly bad though, if someone proves you wrong about something you either completely ignore them and continue to argue as if nothing had happened or else start a new argument with the person on a different subject and try to discret them. HEY! Maybe that's why noone in the milsim (Armotech/Ariakon) community would be caught dead shopping at your store!

I hope to god that those Ariakon accessories rot in your garage (since that's where I'm assuing your store is operated out of) till the end of time, because I'm pretty sure no one who has ever read the Ariakon, Armotech, or PBNation forums will ever buy from you.

So here we are. You've now been exiled from two consecutive marker communities in a row. What's next for you? The RAP/RAM community? I wonder how long it will take you to make 90% of that community hate your guts and never buy from your store? I'm guessing less then 3 months.

Oh and just for the record. I couldn't say any of this about you while you were a dealer, but now that our ties have been cut I'm opening up with everything I've wanted to say over the last few months. Don't think that Ariakon is just trying to kick you in the *** on your way out the door. This is all me...
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Old 09-18-2004, 07:01 PM #3
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Exactly what I expected from you. Nothing at all to say about the issue. Just personal attacks. Do you think it may be a coincidence that the 2 forums are Armotech and Ariakon. Where is the rest of the crew?
Here's fair warning. Every post made by you or the rest of the pack gives me another opportunity to state that the products were defective and very likely caused serious damage to the SIM4's they were installed on....Another opportunity to say they couldn't fix the problem and returned a marker in worse condition than they received it.
You obviously don't know a thing about us or you wouldn't be making these staements. Let's just say we have more than enough knowledge to know what we're talking about on the forums and the strength and integrity to say something knowing full well that small minded lap dogs like you will come after us.
You want to talk about customer service and the customer always being right? Then you may want to give Ariakon a lesson. Dealers are THEIR customers. Charging a restocking fee on defective items; not paying return shipping on a whole order of defective trigger frames; not paying return shipping on a product tahat was damaged and missing parts when it was delivered; refusing to service a product that came back from them in worse condition than before it left; accusing end customer and dealers of causing damage. Shall I go on? Maybe you want to check with them before you say anything else.
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Old 09-18-2004, 07:41 PM #4
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For all those who have no clue about any of this stuff...Xnuke*a former armotech dealer...but got dropped because the same reason he got dropped from Ariakon too*...has been a nuissance to all on forums for a long time, and insist on being right, and if proven wrong he tends to reword the same thing he got proven wrong earlier and prolong his presence of unintelligable ramblings...
For those who kno whats going on...yea...WE'RE FREE FROM HEARING HIM RAMBLING ON ALL DAY FINALLY!!!...lol
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Old 09-18-2004, 10:19 PM #5
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Notice another posting from an Ariakon and Armotech forum member with absolutely nothing to say about the issue. They should be concerned about anyone who purchased one of these and is having problems instead of trying to make me look bad. Telling their customers about the potential for these to cause serious damage to their SIM markers. Continuing to sell a trigger frame without a tournament lock and not informing the customers.
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Old 09-18-2004, 10:22 PM #6
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If you are so concerned about it why do you sell them?
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Old 09-18-2004, 10:32 PM #7
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I looked at the site and it does not say anywhere that it comes with a tournament lock. If you want a tournement lock go buy a different trigger. Whats the problem?
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Old 09-18-2004, 10:45 PM #8
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The problem wasn't so obvious until we went thru 3 of 4 frames from a recent order trying to get one to work. They havent been out all that long and we didn't stock them.
The SIM4 it was installed on worked fine with the standard trigger but would never work when the LCD frame was installed. Tried adjusting it per the Techs directions but it didn't make any difference. Tried 2 other frames, same thing. They wouldn't work on a SIM4 we had in inventory, either.
The SIM4 had to be sent back because of the damage done by the rapid firing:sear jammed in body.
At the same time we were working with another customer trying to get his SIM4 LED to work. It was returned to Ariakon for the same problem. Instead of keeping it the customer got fed up and immediately sent it to us. He got it in the beginning of August and it hadn't worked at all. Tried to get him the LCD while at Ariakon because he wanted a burst mode, but Ariakon said it looked used. We got it back and found it wouldn't cock. Took it apart and found the conditions the same as the in-store customers: Striker jammed and scratching body. Also found no lubrication, o-ring shred and solenoid coil loose. It was incapable of firing.
They only offered a store credit with 20% restocking fee or repair and return. We insisted on full refund since we didn't want to continue to be a dealer. Then finally agreed to refund the costs but then refused to do anything with the second SIM4.
That's where it was left. Then they removed our access to post on the forum, obviously to keep this information off. This was after insisting a couple of weeks before that only someone who violated forum rules would be denied access.
So if someone wants to talk about customer service and integrity why not address that.
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Old 09-18-2004, 10:49 PM #9
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Well...this i have nothing to say about...that doesnt sound to fair...in all honesty...i would hate to order something...then install it on my gn only to have it F my gun up...then find out im goiung to be at fault...im sorry to say this guys...but i agree with xnuke...the world...is coming to an end...lol
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Old 09-18-2004, 11:23 PM #10
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Thanks.
Take a look thru the Ariakon forum. You will see a number of complaints about the frames or unexplained recocking problems. I found a post where the ADMIN stated the electronic frames have to be custom fitted to each SIM. If that's the case why were they being sold without telling people that adjustments were needed or that there was a good possibility they would have to be sent back to them to get it to work. On top of that the adjustment is not easy since the bushing is not threaded. The guidance I got was to put a slotted screwdriver between the coil plate and coil to force it back then tighten the set screw. The only problem is there was no adjustment left. If you tightened the set screw too much it would actually force the sear lower.
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Old 09-18-2004, 11:29 PM #11
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hmm...yea...i saw everyone having problems but didnt think much of it, cuz i never use elctro's...but now that you bring this up it got me thinking more...don't worry everyone...im not going anti ariakon or anything...its just something that does need to be brought to attention and fixed...but this proves my point...mechanical trig owns all...lol...
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Old 09-19-2004, 01:49 AM #12
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Actually XNuke I was just focusing on you because to be honest I just don't like you. I think you're manipulative and just generally an *******. You used to be all for Armotech then when you got dropped you attempted to sabotage them by "calling for a boycott over the DierWolf issue." Now that Ariakon has dropped you, you're trying to sabotage them by claiming the company sucks over the fact that you had some "bad" triggers from them. Isn't it convenient how all these problems seemed to magically happen a day after Ariakon dropped YOU as a dealer?

I already talked to admin about what you posted above and the answer seemed simple enough that I didn't feel the need to address the issue, but whatever. Here it is since you want it so bad:

The vast majority of the "broken" E-triggers Ariakon has recieved have been perfectly functional, the only problem is that you have to read the manual because they do require some adjustments for each gun to get them to work together properly. When they recieved your "broken" triggers they installed them on a few demo guns, adjusted them, and found them to work perfectly. In fact most of the people that have called were simply walked through adjusting them and they've been ok.

That's not to say all Triggers are perfect. I'm sure there are defects out there, but the ones you sent to Ariakon worked fine when they tested them. Thus why they sent them right back out to you 3 hours later.




Now then to address your post...

Quote:
Originally posted by Xnuke Do you think it may be a coincidence that the 2 forums are Armotech and Ariakon. Where is the rest of the crew?
The rest of the crew? I wasn't aware there WAS more... About the only other milsim marker out there is the tippman community unless you count the rap/ram community. As we don't have any major contact with the tippman community and most of the posts we're talking about don't involve tippman in any other way? I'd say the Ariakon/Armotech community IS the relevant "crew" here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Xnuke Let's just say we have more than enough knowledge to know what we're talking about on the forums and the strength and integrity to say something knowing full well that small minded lap dogs like you will come after us.
I wouldn't my being a lapdog require me to have some obligation to the company to do their will? I don't get paid for being mod, hell I've never even been to Cali to meet any of them. I'm just a mod there because I got sick of the morons of the forum and wanted to clean it up.

As for your strength and integrity and vast knowledge on the forums? EVERY and I repeat EVERY argument I've seen you become engaged in, on any forum, has eventually led to you being proven wrong (typically by several people). At which point you either ignore the offending evidence and continue on your way or else promptly find a new point to argue one or a minor flaw in logic and prompty attack that.

I don't know who you think you're representing! Because every time you post it comes off as you standing up for some undertrodden minority that doesn't have the courage to post for themselves. Where are these masses that you represent? What gives you this vast wealth of knowledge that gives you "more than enough knowledge to know what we're talking about on the forums?" If your posting in spite of "small minded lapdogs" like me persecuting you shows "great strength and integrity" it mean that those undertrodden few are not posting in fear of the lapdogs. Therefore I invite all those trampled and dispirited souls to whom Xnuke is your savior to step forward! Do so without fear of persecution, no one will think any less of you and no flames will come your way. Come and defend your savior!

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Old 09-19-2004, 06:51 AM #13
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Let's address the issue first.
We returned 3 trigger frames. They could not be adjusted to work on a customers SIM4. Damage was done to the SIM 4 by the rapid firing. Yes, they said they adjusted the frames. What good did adjusting two frames not installed on markers? They would need adjustment when installed and probably require being sent back. We didn't want them back. Why damage a customers gun and then have to pay return shipping to get it fixed. I wouldn't do that to a customer. OBVIOUSLY THEY WOULD. (They only shipped back the one marker)
We have not received that customers SIM4 back yet so we'll see how long it lasts. The second one had just been repaired at Ariakon and was not working when pulled out of the box. This is what we found:
Gun would not cock.
Hammer o-ring was half gone
No lubrication on hammer
Hammer is jammed in body and cutting grooves into metal( It cannot be removed from the body)
Solenoid coil set screws were loose.

They have refused to do anything with this.

Briefly addressing your ramblings.
We were not bounced by Armotech. We never bought a single item from Armotech.us. We dealt with painballgear.ca until they got screwed by armotech.
The protest post was made after the admin made the ridiculous statements about 9/11 being part of a government conspiracy and might not have happened.
Couldn't post it there since they removed my access over the grenade launcher debate. So much for freedom of speech they all supported.
As far as Ariakon, I had already told them I would not buy from them until certain issues were resolved. In fact it was the day I ordered the trigger frames. This just ended it faster. The first thing they do is remove my ability to post on their forum. SO, here I am.
As for the rest of your post I won't even go there. I wouldn't know where to start. It wouldn't be fair to anyone coming here and takes away from the real issues.

Don't forget that the LCD frame has no tournament lock and if players go to a field that enforces the rules they are out of luck.

Last edited by Xnuke : 09-19-2004 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 09-19-2004, 11:59 AM #14
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Now im confused...So the trig's worked? or did some work and some not...meh...i think its my time to leave...u 2 have fun(-_^)...lol...
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Old 09-19-2004, 12:12 PM #15
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None of them worked at our store(YES, WE HAVE A STORE). Ariakon said they were able to get them to work. Good for them. They didn't work for the customer; didn't work when we tried to adjust them(using their technique) and one they claimed to repair was broken when we got it back.
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Old 09-19-2004, 12:26 PM #16
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so only 1 was "fixed"?...proving once again my point...Mechanical P\/\/|\|z0|2z
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Old 09-19-2004, 07:18 PM #17
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It's impossible for any of us to comment on the trigger issues unless we have it. I don't. I don't know how many Ariakon e-triggers are out there either so it is hard to gauge what the failure rate is. Could be there is a bad batch out there. Very hard to say.

If the triggers were sent back and the company could get them working than the issue must be with the triggers and the customer's marker combined. If this is the case then obviously both must be sent to them.

As for the issues you had with the markers, no one but the company can answer that. The circumstances surrounding each marker is known only to you, Ariakon and the end users. While you offer "proof" as being your word that they were returned to you in a condition worse than you sent them without having more concrete evidence as to how they were when they left your place and how they were upon their return. Photos would suffice. It isn't that I believe you are lieing, but you have, in the past, had a tendancy to skew facts to fit whatever point it is you are trying to make.

I have worked on the customer service side of manufacturing in the past and this included the manufacturer's dealers too. I understand how far gone something can be when someone has "followed the directions" or "have been doing it for years." so without seeing the stuff for myself there really is nothing else to say.

So if there is a problem with the triggers it does need to be addressed. I feel there is more to banning you from the forum than just this however...I feel there is more to the whole story. As I said before, you tend to skew the facts in your favor so I highly doubt this was all there is to your banishment. I do know that, for the most part, your posts on the Ariakon forum have been negative, argumentitive and judgemental. Rarely if ever have you made posts to assist those with common question and mainly have sought to "correct" other's information.

The reason you were banned from Armotech was not because they wished to squelch your opinions, but rather that you contined to badger the forum with your opinions well after your point was made and tended to do so in the same style that (probably) caused your banishment from the Ariakon forums. It isn't what you say that gets you banned Xnuke...rather it is the way in which you say it.

This problem is a perfect "for instance". On this thread, this person asks if he should trade his Tippman A-5 for a Ariakon.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...5post75 46285

Never did he say he wanted a SIM-4. Never did he mention he also was going to put an e-trigger on the SIM even though he had one on his A-5. Never in the past have I seen you answer these questions before unless it was to plug your store. Yet you reply he should stick with his Tippman without telling him why and instead just post a link to this thread. Now, you may say that this WAS telling him why but never once did you bother to ask him the specifics as to what was making him decide to change his marker or what he was looking for in the new marker. Compare this to my post in the same thread. I give him my opinion of my marker. I don't tell him what he should get...he should make up his mind on his own. I keep my answer general and answer about how I like my marker.

In my opinion, your post there exemplifies your posts on most forums. You post only when it will further your particular views/opinions/or well being. You posted that answer for no other reason than to lead one more person to this thread so they can read your rant on Ariakon...to further your blooming grudge against Ariakon.

While I do not doubt there were issues with the triggers you sent back as you claim, I do doubt that the responsibility for these problems, as well as the other issues you mention, lay completely with Ariakon as you claim. Sorry, but your past track record with issues such as this just do not lead me to believe this.

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Old 09-19-2004, 07:41 PM #18
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I believe that if you weren't a dealer, you would have been removed from the Ariakon forum much sooner than now. As Robo mentioned, almost all of your points are negative, argumentative, and judgemental. Perhaps you can consider your banning back payment for that and the problems you cause.
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Old 09-19-2004, 09:40 PM #19
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Well apparently since we put Xnuke in his place here, he's going around posting his original post on every forum he can. So much for the strength and integrity to post in spite of lapdogs like me, eh Xnuke? Running away when we all remind you that you're a pathetic little man who's disliked my 99% of the milsim community?

Here's his latest post over on PBReview:

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showt...hreadid=259218

If anyone finds more of his posts around I figure we should just link to this thread and tell em exactly what I just said on PBReview. It saves us from having to argue with the moron over and over again.
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Old 09-19-2004, 10:13 PM #20
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im still lost...are the trigs defective?...or was it just a bad shipment...meh...i dont care...y do people like Electro's anyways?...
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Old 09-19-2004, 10:27 PM #21
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Apparently the "defective" triggers were fine and Xnuke was just too stupid to figure out how to configure them on the gun. They worked fine when on the demo guns they tried and and he has yet to show any proof of these messed up guns that he claims he recieved in return. Do you have any pictures or these messed up guns and perhaps a scan of a shipping reciept of the guns or a copy of the e-mail?

As for your preference on E-Triggers Kamka. I agree 100% I would never upgrade from my manual trigger on my SIM, but I guess some people just like the thought of turning their SIM into a full auto....
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