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Old 04-25-2012, 06:29 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
1. If you are hit in an unobvious location, you are an inactive player until a judge eliminates you.
2. You may not return to active (shooting) status if you are an inactive player.
I don't really understand this one. What if one of your opponents calls a paint check on you, making you unable to shoot, then changes their position to where they have a shot on you? It seems as if they could just call a paint check on you to give them an opportunity to advance. Any rule restricting the player that called the check from moving up?
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:55 PM #23
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You are not an inactive player just for being checked. You're an inactive player if you have an unobvious hit.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:16 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWherlz View Post
I don't really understand this one. What if one of your opponents calls a paint check on you, making you unable to shoot, then changes their position to where they have a shot on you? It seems as if they could just call a paint check on you to give them an opportunity to advance. Any rule restricting the player that called the check from moving up?
Just because a player yells for the ref to check an opponent doesn't mean the ref will. The ref will only go check a player if he/she feels that there could have been a hit. If they don't have a reason to get involved in the game, they stay out of they way as much as possible.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:39 AM #25
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there isnt really a penalty it mainly sucks for the referee if you keep shooting
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:30 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyballer099639 View Post
Just because a player yells for the ref to check an opponent doesn't mean the ref will. The ref will only go check a player if he/she feels that there could have been a hit. If they don't have a reason to get involved in the game, they stay out of they way as much as possible.

the fact they don't have to check also helps if your team looses track of a player; if you know he's lets say in the snake, you call for a paint check and if the ref checks him then your whole team now knows the player just moved up... its essentially the solution if they cant get help from the pits
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:51 AM #27
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^^ the logic is.....close? If you just start screaming paint check to a ref they are not going to run and check a bunker you are not shooting at or near. You would have to have been shooting at the player as he bumped to warrant a check. If you were shooting at him then you should know exactly where he is, as should your pits since that's their job and all. So in theory you might be able to pull this off but in reality it is kind of dumb.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:58 AM #28
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Quote:
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there isnt really a penalty it mainly sucks for the referee if you keep shooting
False.

Regardless of the technicalities, it boils down to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
Depending on the context, it could result in a penalty. The severity depends on several factors, such as how many people you shoot, where you're hit, and if your gun is within the rof/velocity limits. It's in good taste to stop shooting when a referee is checking you. If you keep shooting, it tells the ref that you intend to play on, which may result in a minor/major if they find a hit.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:19 PM #29
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I am a PSP referee, I have reffed both events this year and is going to ref all events this year (d4 and d3 5man, and d4 and d3 xball). If your shooting while I'm checking you and your hit, your going to get a major (no matter where), because your not suppose to shoot while a ref is checking you. They're very few circumstances that enables you to shoot.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:09 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyboy101 View Post
I am a PSP referee, I have reffed both events this year and is going to ref all events this year (d4 and d3 5man, and d4 and d3 xball). If your shooting while I'm checking you and your hit, your going to get a major (no matter where), because your not suppose to shoot while a ref is checking you. They're very few circumstances that enables you to shoot.
I'd argue on this one.

If I called the paint check on myself, I'd completely agree with you. Calling the check on myself is reason to believe I was hit, which I would think upgrades all hits (even unobvious ones) to obvious.

If another player called the check on me, and I had a hit on my pack, here are the rules that say it would only be a minor:

Quote:
3.8.9.1. An inactive player eliminated by a judge due to an unobvious hit not observed by the judge will be assessed a minor penalty.18

18 If a judge observes a player receive an unobvious hit, the judge should eliminate that player without penalty. If a judge finds an unobvious hit on a player, the judge should eliminate that player and assess a minor penalty.
Quote:
3.4.2. An “inactive” player is a previously active player who has not been eliminated and

3.4.2.3. Has an unobvious hit
Quote:
3.8.9. Unobvious hits are any valid hit that is not obvious. A player with an unobvious hit is inactive and will be eliminated by a judge.
These rules and footnote point out what a pack hit would be and that a ref finding an unobvious hit is only a minor. In order for this to be pushed to a major, another rule must be broken.

Quote:
4 During a point, a player is always active, inactive, or eliminated. Inactive is when a player is out of the point and his shots should not count, but the player would not be expected to know he is out of the point (i.e. the player’s foot touches tapeline, then the player bunkers two people – the player should be eliminated with no penalty and the two people bunkered should be left in). Eliminated is when a player should know they should not still be playing, either because a judge has told them they are eliminated, or because they have an obvious hit, or because they were never on the field at the start of the point to begin with. Thus, when assessing appropriate penalties, a judge must only determine whether the player was active, inactive, or eliminated when the infraction was committed.
The bolded part emphases that being inactive points out that the player wouldn't know he is out. Another player thinking I'm out doesn't mean that I should instantly assume they're right, and that I'm out. If it does, then I'll start in the pro division and just say everyone on the opposing side is out simply because I shot in their general direction and it COULD have hit them.

Quote:
3.4.6. A player being approached by an official may not advance. Players who advance to avoid an official will be assessed a major penalty.
Continued shooting is not advancing. If the player doesn't cooperate to let a ref check a certain area, then that is avoidance in my book, and should be a major.

Quote:
3.8.6. A player with an obvious hit that is in a location that the player cannot verify may ask a judge or teammate to verify the hit before proceeding as otherwise required by 3.7.1, but may take no other action. 16

16 If you’re not sure if a hit broke, and you can’t check it yourself, you can ask a ref or teammate to check it without penalty before exiting the field of play, so long as you take no other action. You may choose to continue to play, HOWEVER, if it turns out that the hit was valid, you will be assessed a major penalty plus a minor penalty for any opponents you shoot because you were playing with an obvious hit, so you should consider carefully whether the risk of the penalty is worth continuing to play prior to getting the hit checked.
This rule here really sums it up if you transfer everything from obvious to unobvious. This rule says that if you're found with an obvious hit, and you played on, you get a major, the normal penalty for playing on. If you change that to unobvious, and play on, you get the normal penalty for an unobvious hit.

I could not find any rules about being checked. If there are, please bring them to my attention.

So to sum up, if you call a check on yourself, then any hit should count as obvious. If you don't call a check on yourself, then anything found during a check should count as it normally would. The only way an unobvious hit could pull a major is by avoiding the check.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:25 AM #31
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Depending on the ref (their style) and the situation. If your shot in an oblivious spot and you shoot while a ref is checking you then that's an easy major because you should have called yourself out (no matter what the reaction was). Depending on how vigorously the ref is checking you, must come into question as well. How you reacted to getting shot can give it away to a ref that you know you got shot and when if he/she goes in and sees that you got shot in the pack/hopper he can call a minor/major depending what your reaction was and if you were shooting.

3.8.6. A player with an obvious hit that is in a location that the player cannot verify may ask a judge or teammate to verify the hit before proceeding as otherwise required by 3.7.1, but may take no other action. 16

16 If you’re not sure if a hit broke, and you can’t check it yourself, you can ask a ref or teammate to check it without penalty before exiting the field of play, so long as you take no other action. You may choose to continue to play, HOWEVER, if it turns out that the hit was valid, you will be assessed a major penalty plus a minor penalty for any opponents you shoot because you were playing with an obvious hit, so you should consider carefully whether the risk of the penalty is worth continuing to play prior to getting the hit checked.

The rule-book explains this perfectly.
The short answer is- don't try to push it and shoot if you know you got shot while a ref is checking you. Then you shouldn't be flagged

Last edited by Scottyboy101 : 04-30-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:45 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyboy101 View Post
I am a PSP referee, I have reffed both events this year and is going to ref all events this year (d4 and d3 5man, and d4 and d3 xball). If your shooting while I'm checking you and your hit, your going to get a major (no matter where), because your not suppose to shoot while a ref is checking you. They're very few circumstances that enables you to shoot.
Thank you for posting this. This brings us back to my original point:

If you are shooting when a ref finds a hit, expect a penalty. If you stop shooting during a check, especially one that you requested, you are less likely to be penalized.
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