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Old 04-02-2012, 12:29 PM #1
blowfish_steve
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NPPL Going Down Hill!!!

HB was a joke this year. 3 fields, really? I remember when NPPL would sell out of spots for teams in the first hour of open registration and had 7 fields. I honestly don't see how this series will survive another season. Also, why is the political battle between NPPL and PSP affecting the vendors, players and potential participants? There was a pathetic turn out in not only teams playing but vendor support as well. It probably has nothing to do with the outrageous costs they are charging or the rules/restrictions the vendors are now forced to follow. CC paintball usually reps for DYE at these events and has a tech at their booth FOR THE PLAYERS WHO PAID $$$$ TO PLAY. This year that was not allowed. They were not allowed to have a DYE tech to work on markers and they were not allowed to sell any product from PSP sponsors I.E. DYE, Draxus, Empire, JT...... Seriously? Who is this hurting? Sorry players, looks like you will have to wear only Valken or Sly at NPPL (no insult to either company intended) otherwise you will not be supported. I don’t know how many people I heard asking for lenses this event only to hear "sorry we are not allowed to sell that replacement lens out here" as a response. You know what you can buy out here though? A sweet set of 1,500 thread count bed sheets! Are you kidding me? These events are supposed to be for the players and the potential players that walk by and see this huge deal on the beach and think it would be cool to be part of it. On that note, why are people being charged to sit in the grand stands? You want to know how to kill a sport? Don’t allow people (non paintballers) to watch!!!! That is a perfect example of a businessperson thinking "how can a make a few extra bucks right now? I know, we will charge people to watch."

Now Lets think about this for a second or two... Why is NPPL on the beach. I can think of 2 reasons.
1) So the players have a sweet venue to play.
2) Because of the popularity of Huntington Beach and its foot traffic.
Does anyone else not see the dilemma in charging people to watch? Come on!!! If paintballers want venues like HB to continue then the focus needs to shift from making a quick buck to expanding the sport. With new spectators comes new players/ new money/new talent/new innovation/ and overall growth. There is no reason to have this venue if we can't get more people involved. Just hold the tournaments at regular PB fields, drop the price by about 2k, and give out those things we haven’t seen in years, PRIZES. I am disappointed in the way this tournament played out and I hope for future sake things start to change because no industry can last on this path.

Congrats to those that played, I hope it was fun and worth the money spent.

Last edited by blowfish_steve : 04-02-2012 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:04 PM #2
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For my first NPPL event ever I thought it was ok because obviously the vendors and pros being there and of course being on the beach but to be honest now that I have been there I prob won't come back just to enjoy it. I wanted to be wowed but it was more like mehhhhhh. Oh and the not selling the dye,jt, etc stuff hurts everyone. Don't bring down the industry because you want to be a baby about NPPL. Your competitor can be your greatest ally.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:10 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blowfish_steve View Post
Does anyone else not see the dilemma in charging people to watch? Come on!!! If paintballers want venues like HB to continue then the focus needs to shift from making a quick buck to expanding the sport. With new spectators comes new players/ new money/new talent/new innovation/ and overall growth. There is no reason to have this venue if we can't get more people involved. Just hold the tournaments at regular PB fields, drop the price by about 2k, and give out those things we havenít seen in years, PRIZES. I am disappointed in the way this tournament played out and I hope for future sake things start to change because no industry can last on this path.

yaa. nba,mlb,nfl,nhl games should be free admittance too. to expand the sports. they should make concerts, motocross, and everything else free admittance too.

having the event on the beach at HB is fine. you are forgetting a major thing. if you move professional national tournaments to paintball fields chances are for one the fields will not be large enough to accommodate everything. Also, I believe that many people attend venues because of their location. The feel, appeal, atmosphere, etc bring people to the tournaments. If not as many people show to events then companies will stop buying booth space and everything at the events too which is more money lost for NPPL.

try taking a step back and seeing the big picture next time than simply only seeing ur close minded selfish own opinion.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:13 PM #4
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Originally Posted by Deathdealerxl View Post
For my first NPPL event ever I thought it was ok because obviously the vendors and pros being there and of course being on the beach but to be honest now that I have been there I prob won't come back just to enjoy it. I wanted to be wowed but it was more like mehhhhhh. Oh and the not selling the dye,jt, etc stuff hurts everyone. Don't bring down the industry because you want to be a baby about NPPL. Your competitor can be your greatest ally.
This is my point exactly. The first couple HB events were amazing. As soon as the event was over I was counting down the days until next year. Even if I wasn't playing I would still make plans to go and hang out. If you as a painbtaller are not even willing to check it out, what are we saying to non ballers who are seeing it for the first time? Why pay the high costs to play in a mehhhhh tournament?
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:28 PM #5
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Played HB 2 times prior to this last event. And I had a blast and it was awesome, but then again it must be because my team actually placed. Tournament was great, I was smart and came to the tournament prepared and ready to play. Not come into an event hoping other people would be there to hold my hand and cater to my spoiled needs. I guess thats the difference between calling it a mehh event and a good event, isn it...

The event was perfect, a mixture of enough play time and free time to have fun with the team. that may be another thing to, maybe find some teammates with similar views and make some friends so at least you will have some fun.

My only gripe is that they don't allow beer to anyone else but the vip area. But the liquor store across the street didnt discriminate
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:32 PM #6
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Originally Posted by blowfish_steve View Post
This is my point exactly. The first couple HB events were amazing. As soon as the event was over I was counting down the days until next year. Even if I wasn't playing I would still make plans to go and hang out. If you as a painbtaller are not even willing to check it out, what are we saying to non ballers who are seeing it for the first time? Why pay the high costs to play in a mehhhhh tournament?
my point is that professional paintball is a business just like any other sport. yes the NPPL has some things they need to work on, but especially for a person new to the sport dont you think theyll be more "awwed" by showing up to watch NPPL HB compared to a random field in podunk,iowa with dirt roads, almost no vendors, etc.?

referring back to my first sentence... this is the same reason as to why lets say... why a nfl team doesnt play on a high school grassy field 10 miles away from all civilization or why basketball teams dont play at an old abandoned warehouse.


also... what ementa1 said is a good addition as well.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:55 PM #7
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First off: I love that liquor store. Second: my team went 0-8 this event and we still had a blast.

You can watch games for free just go to one of the divisional fields to watch. There were very exciting games in D2 that could be watched either from the bleachers or from the pier.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:05 PM #8
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Originally Posted by jamest91 View Post
yaa. nba,mlb,nfl,nhl games should be free admittance too. to expand the sports. they should make concerts, motocross, and everything else free admittance too.
Obviously these things cannot be compared. All of which you have mentioned are MUCH easier to understand and provide an entertainment factor. Unfortunately, paintball is not there yet, if it will ever be.

It's like charging myself to watch poker, bowling, etc. Yeah, I might stick around and watch it for a little while, but there is no way in hell I'd ever pay to see it. Paintball, I might, just because I understand the game, know the teams involved, etc.

In an ideal setting, charging for seats would be understandable. I just don't think paintball is at that point yet. The demand isn't there, it's starving for attention. So why charge for it?

Last edited by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa : 04-02-2012 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:43 PM #9
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I just want to highlight some of the pros and cons of the event. It was not my first HB so my persepective could be biased both ways.

Pros:

Referees ran everything smoothly and on time. Chips were actually monitored and caught 2 players shooting in the 18's. Getting you packet, signing in was fast. Staff was very friendly. There were a good amount of vendors. Pits were bigger than PSP's. Scoreboard inside pit was nice.

Cons:

Scoreboards were not visible for the race to format. Numbers and clock were hard to see. It was difficult at times to get to the other side of the field to start games when refs had to chrono each player within 40 seconds from pit to startbox. Refs didn't pull enough penalties and were very lenient with non pro teams. Air station was in the middle and not each pit. Turf was ragged and had several holes. Some of the Race to teams got screwed on matches. I think D4 played 3, D1 played 2. Vendors were banned from selling non sponsors items.

Overall:

The entry fee needs to come down or number of matches needs to be standardized. Scoreboards need to be updated. Turf needs to be fixed. It was well ran, and the chips work. More of the tangibles need to be upgraded.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:03 PM #10
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Originally Posted by jamest91 View Post
yaa. nba,mlb,nfl,nhl games should be free admittance too. to expand the sports. they should make concerts, motocross, and everything else free admittance too.
I understand what you are getting at, however stadiums and convention centers are private venues. When was the last time you saw a super bowl on a public beach, in plain sight. Never. you have to go out of your way to participate and pay at those events. I am more referring to those people who are not aware of what is going on or know what paintball is (the foot traffic).

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having the event on the beach at HB is fine. you are forgetting a major thing. if you move professional national tournaments to paintball fields chances are for one the fields will not be large enough to accommodate everything.
Almost all, If not all, SOCAL PB fields have more than three tournament fields. We used to play tournements at SC, Tombstone, Lions Den, Jungle, Camp Pendelton... all the time. The capability is there.

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I believe that many people attend venues because of their location. The feel, appeal, atmosphere, etc bring people to the tournaments.
My First Point.

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If not as many people show to events then companies will stop buying booth space and everything at the events too which is more money lost for NPPL.
Correct, partially. Yes it is money loss for NPPL. But also the Vendors, the city, the local businesses (everyone's favorite liquor store) and so on. This will end with no support and very little participation. Then no more HB. Get it?


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try taking a step back and seeing the big picture next time than simply only seeing ur close minded selfish own opinion.
Really? What do you think this whole post is about. What portion is selfish? where am I gaining anything from this? Lets put our critical thinking caps on.

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Played HB 2 times prior to this last event. And I had a blast and it was awesome, but then again it must be because my team actually placed. Tournament was great, I was smart and came to the tournament prepared and ready to play. Not come into an event hoping other people would be there to hold my hand and cater to my spoiled needs. I guess thats the difference between calling it a mehh event and a good event, isn it...

The event was perfect, a mixture of enough play time and free time to have fun with the team. that may be another thing to, maybe find some teammates with similar views and make some friends so at least you will have some fun.

My only gripe is that they don't allow beer to anyone else but the vip area. But the liquor store across the street didnt discriminate
I am happy for those that played and had a great time. The whole point to this post is that I want everyone to experience this.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:05 PM #11
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Originally Posted by ementa1 View Post
Played HB 2 times prior to this last event. And I had a blast and it was awesome, but then again it must be because my team actually placed. Tournament was great, I was smart and came to the tournament prepared and ready to play. Not come into an event hoping other people would be there to hold my hand and cater to my spoiled needs. I guess thats the difference between calling it a mehh event and a good event, isn it...

The event was perfect, a mixture of enough play time and free time to have fun with the team. that may be another thing to, maybe find some teammates with similar views and make some friends so at least you will have some fun.

My only gripe is that they don't allow beer to anyone else but the vip area. But the liquor store across the street didnt discriminate
I've got everything I would have needed if I were playing but I wanted to see all the paintball companies fight for my dollar not be limited by what NPPL wanted me to see. Being provided by information on product first hand with a great knowledge causes me to buy product not hey this looks cool, or hey this thing works great. I like to know why. It's exactly why I bought a ninja tank first hand actually
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:17 PM #12
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my point is that professional paintball is a business just like any other sport. yes the NPPL has some things they need to work on, but especially for a person new to the sport dont you think theyll be more "awwed" by showing up to watch NPPL HB compared to a random field in podunk,iowa with dirt roads, almost no vendors, etc.?

Yes. My point exactly. They would be "awwed" if they could watch. But when they do not know paintball and someone says "pay me so you can watch something you know nothing about or have ever showed interest in" it puts a damper on the growth of the event. The other approach would be "Hey, have you ever seen paintball before? No, well then come take a seat right here and watch the best of the best compete." See what I am getting at? Watching the other two fields was free. But you have to fight the crowds gathering around the fence and look through netting and a chain link fence. At least in the grand stands a person can sit and relax to watch a great game.

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referring back to my first sentence... this is the same reason as to why lets say... why a nfl team doesnt play on a high school grassy field 10 miles away from all civilization or why basketball teams dont play at an old abandoned warehouse.
This would make sense if NPPL was occurring at Dynasty Stadium or XSV convention center. But those do not exist. So this rationale does not work.

If we want to see future NPPL events there needs to be growth and support. Everything that occurred with this event was counterproductive in that regard.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:19 PM #13
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I've got everything I would have needed if I were playing but I wanted to see all the paintball companies fight for my dollar not be limited by what NPPL wanted me to see. Being provided by information on product first hand with a great knowledge causes me to buy product not hey this looks cool, or hey this thing works great. I like to know why. It's exactly why I bought a ninja tank first hand actually
I don't think anyone could disagree with you on that one.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:21 PM #14
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As my first national level tournament I walked into it not knowing previously how big it used to be. I loved this tournament. It felt very hands on and there was never a point where I felt that my pressence as a player was taken for granted. I played D4 race to 4 on the Center Court field. We only got to play 3 matches during prelims which kind of sucked but overall was a great time. It kind of sucked not having some vendors like Kee/JT and Dye but with the vendors that were there I always had somewhere to go.

My only gripes: Countdown clock was not up and running the first part of the day, most of the Race to rules were not clarified until the day before and some once the issue arose.

Overall I can not wait to play the rest of the events this year. I love how the NPPL plays out and I hope that others realize that it is trying to grow a new direction.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:29 PM #15
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Although I was unhappy with playing all games on Thursday and the changes happening without any announcements, I feel like when it came down to playing everything went well. The refs were helpful, nice, and seemed to be on top of things, the field layout was great, the weather was great, schedule ran smooth, and everyone seemed really nice. I didn't go on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, but everything went well Thursday in my opinion. I also talked with Chuck on Wednesday and he offered to set everything straight with me for the schedule changes.

I wish more vendors were there, more teams were there, they had brand new turf, etc, but I don't see that happening with how things are going. I think the registration system needs lots of work- the D4 7man winners never even registered as far as I know, so that makes me skeptical as to their ranking. Not to complain, but it would be nice to see rosters, a playing history, pretty much APPA stuff.

I had fun and hope to be able to play the Vegas event at the end of the year.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:31 PM #16
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As my first national level tournament I walked into it not knowing previously how big it used to be. I loved this tournament. It felt very hands on and there was never a point where I felt that my pressence as a player was taken for granted. I played D4 race to 4 on the Center Court field. We only got to play 3 matches during prelims which kind of sucked but overall was a great time. It kind of sucked not having some vendors like Kee/JT and Dye but with the vendors that were there I always had somewhere to go.

My only gripes: Countdown clock was not up and running the first part of the day, most of the Race to rules were not clarified until the day before and some once the issue arose.

Overall I can not wait to play the rest of the events this year. I love how the NPPL plays out and I hope that others realize that it is trying to grow a new direction.


Its all about having fun. I am glad that you got to experience this and I hope you would do it again. But 3 prelims? How is that ok? What's that come out to? $900 a game? Plus hotel, paint, food, travel. That's garbage. especially with such a small turn out, you should have had at least 8 prelims.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:38 PM #17
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Its all about having fun. I am glad that you got to experience this and I hope you would do it again. But 3 prelims? How is that ok? What's that come out to? $900 a game? Plus hotel, paint, food, travel. That's garbage. especially with such a small turn out, you should have had at least 8 prelims.
That's why regional events are so popular now. Teams that are playing national events should know what to expect, which is very frustrating that the NPPL didn't explain how many matches would occur, didn't follow the schedule they released at the beginning, etc. There is no way I would have signed up for Race To this event because there was almost no information released.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:41 PM #18
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What team/division did you play?
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:43 PM #19
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I don't know if you're asking me, but I played D4 7man with Mile High Saints, just missed the quarterfinal cut, and had a great time.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:09 PM #20
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Its all about having fun. I am glad that you got to experience this and I hope you would do it again. But 3 prelims? How is that ok? What's that come out to? $900 a game? Plus hotel, paint, food, travel. That's garbage. especially with such a small turn out, you should have had at least 8 prelims.
Actually if you break it down it cost 500 dollars a game seeing as the team payed 1500 for registration. I payed out of pocket for myself to go from Idaho to play the event 400 dollars. That's gas, hotels,paint,entry.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:22 PM #21
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Anyone remembers The Home Depot Center ? , not sure if it was 05 or 06.
Paintball was at it's highest, It was so bad to see all those vendors, players and people. I got hooked in paintball that day !!!!
I was in HB this past event and man it looks so sad, it's like watching a company having a ALL MUST GO SALE.
Greed and politics can for sure kill a league, The sport is not going away, but this league for sure needs a overhaul.
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